Research would tell me what is wrong with these bills and how a good bill should look.
Joel Send a noteboard - 18/01/2012 11:22:46 AM
As I, ghav, and beetnemesis have pointed out, SOPA and PIPA have absolutely nothing to do with national security or "hacking" of any sort. The fact that you've been arguing that angle in most of your posts here reveals to me that:
1) You have not read the bills, or summaries of the bills, or wikipedia pages, or anything else. It's not that you don't understand the pros and cons; you don't even understand the central issue.
2) You lack a fundamental understanding of how the internet works and how it's used for. . .well, any purpose. Defense, piracy, commerce, etc.
And you know what? That's fine. I'm not trying to put you down or say that you have to be current on every tech issue out there. It's not your area of expertise, and I have no problem with that. However, I'm also not going to waste any more time talking about this with you until you learn a little more about what's going on.
1) You have not read the bills, or summaries of the bills, or wikipedia pages, or anything else. It's not that you don't understand the pros and cons; you don't even understand the central issue.
2) You lack a fundamental understanding of how the internet works and how it's used for. . .well, any purpose. Defense, piracy, commerce, etc.
And you know what? That's fine. I'm not trying to put you down or say that you have to be current on every tech issue out there. It's not your area of expertise, and I have no problem with that. However, I'm also not going to waste any more time talking about this with you until you learn a little more about what's going on.
It would not tell me why no bill should exist, which seems to be the position critics of these bills are taking. That position is doomed to fail. Tell the government what kind of bill you want, and do it en masse, or they will enact the only option they currently have.
More than anything, it sounds like a particular big business wants the government to help it beat down any small business that gets in the way. That IS a problem, but one a lot bigger than the internet that the current bills will only "fundamentally alter" will be to operate like every other aspect of US society. In terms of taking down sites and disabling IPs, some form of judicial review seems in order. In terms of content, however, hackers frequently find ways around that difficulty in minutes anyway, and the inability to prevent that is probably why the current bills would make so many current misdemeanors and civil infractions into felony criminal charges.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
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LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
English Wikipedia Anti-SOPA Blackout
- 17/01/2012 08:31:46 AM
2284 Views
Yeah, man, because currently copyright holders have no recourse, am I right?
- 17/01/2012 11:47:35 AM
1114 Views
"altering the infrastructure of the Internet so as to render RAFO virtually inaccessible"? 
- 17/01/2012 08:12:27 PM
1205 Views
- 17/01/2012 08:12:27 PM
1205 Views
I'll go ahead and ask before I get my panties in a bunch: do you understand these bills?
- 17/01/2012 09:09:22 PM
1308 Views
I admit I have not looked into it much
- 17/01/2012 11:42:30 PM
1172 Views
And yet you're still arguing the matter. 
- 18/01/2012 02:34:04 AM
1270 Views
- 18/01/2012 02:34:04 AM
1270 Views
I love you. *NM*
- 18/01/2012 03:41:03 AM
700 Views
heh, thanks. I usually find myself pushing minority opinions. Nice to be "appreciated" for once. 
*NM*
- 18/01/2012 04:01:10 AM
683 Views
*NM*
- 18/01/2012 04:01:10 AM
683 Views
Can i second the adulation?
- 18/01/2012 04:07:17 AM
972 Views
I too (three?) appreciate the common sense and reasonable explanations. *NM*
- 18/01/2012 04:12:59 AM
681 Views
Right, because the argument is not just over THIS bill but, apparently, over ANY bill.
- 18/01/2012 11:09:13 AM
1160 Views
Alternatives to SOPA/PIPA have been proposed for months now. Please stop arguing this.
- 18/01/2012 05:42:10 PM
1066 Views
Also, in the case of the OPEN Act, it has not "been proposed for months."
- 18/01/2012 07:28:15 PM
1579 Views
"sensitive federal content"? Provide a source justifying this claim and it's relevance, please.
- 18/01/2012 05:59:47 PM
1173 Views
I would not have thought a source necessary.
- 18/01/2012 06:24:44 PM
1176 Views
Okay, I'm with Aemon now.
- 18/01/2012 07:36:21 PM
1175 Views
OK.
- 18/01/2012 10:16:16 PM
1205 Views
should be interesting
- 17/01/2012 12:41:47 PM
1035 Views
Could be; depends on a lot of factors.
- 17/01/2012 07:38:55 PM
1103 Views
See, that's one of the biggest problems that people aren't understanding.
- 17/01/2012 09:31:38 PM
1110 Views
So tell them that.
- 17/01/2012 11:54:19 PM
1264 Views
Joel, I think I'm done with this unless you want to do some research.
- 18/01/2012 02:53:19 AM
1067 Views
Research would tell me what is wrong with these bills and how a good bill should look.
- 18/01/2012 11:22:46 AM
1172 Views
Could've done without the snide rejoinder, but, good.
- 17/01/2012 02:20:08 PM
1017 Views
I love the black banner, like some kind of internet Holocaust.
- 17/01/2012 08:03:27 PM
1166 Views
Are you aware that SOPA/PIPA has nothing to do with hackers and everything to do with copyright?
- 18/01/2012 02:08:56 AM
1017 Views
There seems to be some overlap.
- 18/01/2012 01:08:22 PM
1136 Views
Re: There seems to be some overlap.
- 18/01/2012 08:13:15 PM
1036 Views
Re: There still seems to be some overlap.
- 18/01/2012 10:27:32 PM
1299 Views
Re: There still seems to be some overlap.
- 18/01/2012 11:30:39 PM
1126 Views
Just because the news does not mention something does not automatically make it non-applicable.
- 19/01/2012 04:08:58 PM
1148 Views
Re: Just because the news does not mention something does not automatically make it non-applicable.
- 19/01/2012 10:39:40 PM
1141 Views
If you re-read your last sentence it should be clear why this law is being pushed.
- 20/01/2012 09:12:29 PM
1421 Views
Re: If you re-read your last sentence it should be clear why this law is being pushed.
- 21/01/2012 03:19:49 AM
1022 Views
Er, what Ghav said.
- 18/01/2012 02:30:37 AM
1062 Views
Sorry, protecting Pirate Bay and offshore gambling are not compelling counterarguments.
- 18/01/2012 11:38:08 AM
1092 Views
Okay, another analogy:
- 18/01/2012 02:04:12 PM
1060 Views
The devil is always in the details, and it seems clear the details need great revision.
- 18/01/2012 03:31:20 PM
1102 Views
what they SHOULD do is stop taking money from proponents of sopa/pipa
- 18/01/2012 03:51:09 PM
1147 Views
Yes, they should, but, once again, that approach will not prevent a new law.
- 18/01/2012 04:05:02 PM
1157 Views
Re: The devil is always in the details, and it seems clear the details need great revision.
- 18/01/2012 04:27:30 PM
1117 Views
If the US government wants to summarily block sites within the US, it already can and will.
- 18/01/2012 06:15:53 PM
1068 Views
You know all this anti-SOPA bullshit is making me hope the bill passes.
- 18/01/2012 04:00:17 AM
1120 Views
I would not go THAT far; it seems clear these bills have many objectionable provisions.
- 18/01/2012 11:41:23 AM
1144 Views
Re: I would not go THAT far; it seems clear these bills have many objectionable provisions.
- 19/01/2012 01:57:46 AM
967 Views
Yeah, the extreme bias on both sides is why the bills will likely pass more or less as written.
- 19/01/2012 03:31:52 PM
1162 Views
joel, you need to consider three things
- 18/01/2012 06:06:16 AM
1133 Views
You need to consider that they WILL pass some legislation, and what you want it to contain.
- 18/01/2012 12:15:38 PM
1182 Views
again, it's not about piracy, it's about protecting the mpaa/riaa business model at our expense
- 18/01/2012 03:34:32 PM
1247 Views
Yeah, see, that is the problem: "it's not about piracy."
- 18/01/2012 03:57:55 PM
1072 Views
if piracy is such a problem then the mpaa/riaa need to PROVE their losses
- 19/01/2012 02:43:31 AM
1067 Views
How do you expect anyone to prove what people WOULD HAVE bought if they could not just take it?
- 19/01/2012 03:57:24 PM
1384 Views
A technical examination of SOPA and PROTECT IP
- 18/01/2012 08:32:44 AM
1058 Views
"As a disclaimer, I am not a lawyer, I'm a sysadmin."
- 18/01/2012 12:47:16 PM
1306 Views
Wikipedia has already convinced me
- 18/01/2012 03:26:01 PM
927 Views
Trying to stop this legislation without proposing an alternative is trying to stop ANY legislation.
- 18/01/2012 03:44:18 PM
1137 Views
It isn't their job to propose legislation
- 18/01/2012 04:12:53 PM
1061 Views
No, but they have as much RIGHT to do so as anyone else.
- 18/01/2012 05:31:55 PM
1041 Views
Strike three.
- 18/01/2012 05:37:55 PM
1121 Views
That is fine; that is what people SHOULD be doing.
- 18/01/2012 06:03:59 PM
924 Views
Things being better now than they would be under SOPA seems like a legitimate argument to me
- 18/01/2012 09:04:18 PM
1188 Views
Against SOPA, sure; against ANY new law, no.
- 18/01/2012 10:46:48 PM
1052 Views
About "proposing new legislation"
- 18/01/2012 04:45:08 PM
1176 Views
So true
- 18/01/2012 05:08:45 PM
1126 Views
Re: About "proposing new legislation"
- 18/01/2012 05:59:55 PM
1269 Views
Hm, you should read my post one above about combatting online piracy.
- 18/01/2012 06:20:16 PM
1200 Views
I would not recommend photocopying a book and handing it out on street corners.
- 18/01/2012 06:45:52 PM
1140 Views
Not to blame, neccessarily. But you have to live in the real world.
- 18/01/2012 07:31:18 PM
1068 Views
Re: Not to blame, neccessarily. But you have to live in the real world.
- 18/01/2012 08:55:59 PM
1140 Views
I always liked the codewheels SSI provided with copies of their Gold Box AD&D games.
- 18/01/2012 10:07:40 PM
1289 Views
These are really different arguments
- 19/01/2012 12:05:10 AM
1035 Views
TV is slightly different, because regional availability becomes a factor.
- 19/01/2012 04:18:58 PM
1036 Views
Yeah, so I use Russian wikipedia for a day. Or German wikipedia, or French, or Italian... *NM*
- 18/01/2012 06:23:36 PM
737 Views
Or just hit stop right before the script runs. *NM*
- 18/01/2012 06:52:40 PM
723 Views
Or just disable Java. *NM*
- 19/01/2012 01:58:03 AM
589 Views
That's not as much fun though. *NM*
- 19/01/2012 02:13:44 AM
714 Views
Exactly, this way its kind of a game. *NM*
- 19/01/2012 02:20:37 AM
523 Views
I really don't see the fun in that. Wikipedia is just a tool, not a game. *NM*
- 19/01/2012 04:59:14 AM
630 Views
I don't know about those (except French), but none of the ones I ever used are remotely as good. *NM*
- 18/01/2012 08:13:47 PM
712 Views
Russian wikipedia is very good if you're not checking some obscure Western cultural phenomena.
- 19/01/2012 01:57:43 AM
1225 Views
Or Answers.com, or even the actual sources that are often copy/pasted into Wikipedia...
- 19/01/2012 01:07:38 AM
1141 Views
Re: Or Answers.com, or even the actual sources that are often copy/pasted into Wikipedia... *NM*
- 19/01/2012 01:34:46 AM
754 Views
Oh, no; now Congress will be inundated with complaints from lazy college students! 
- 19/01/2012 04:40:12 PM
1190 Views
- 19/01/2012 04:40:12 PM
1190 Views
13 previously unopposed senators now do not support SOPA.
- 19/01/2012 11:36:15 PM
1163 Views
How does that "rebutt" what was a facetious post in the first place?
- 20/01/2012 09:24:27 PM
1253 Views