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The article both raises good points and is full of shit ironclad Send a noteboard - 05/02/2012 11:36:25 PM

What’s clear is that legislation is not the answer. Piracy is already illegal in the US, and most places around the world, yet it persists underground, but more often in plain sight. Short of passing a law that allows the actual blacklisting of websites like China and Iran, there is no legislative solution. That’s what SOPA and PIPA were attempting to do, but it so obviously trampled on the First Amendment, it was laughed out of existence as the entire internet protested it. The only other thing you could get the internet to agree on was if they tried to institute a ban on cat pictures.

So, what to do? Go the other direction. Realize piracy is a service problem. Right now, from the browser window in which I’m writing this article, it is possible to download and start watching a movie for free in a few swift clicks.

It’s not moral, it’s not right, but it’s there and it’s easy and there’s no one to stop you from doing it, and never will be. If after ten years and millions of dollars in legal fees they finally manage to kill the Pirate Bay, there are hundreds of other torrent sites that exist, and more will spring up. If they ban torrents altogether, the internet will invent something new.

Piracy is not raiding and plundering Best Buys and FYEs, smashing the windows and running out with the loot. It’s like being placed in a store full of every DVD in existence. There are no employees, no security guards, and when you take a copy of movie, another one materializes in its place, so you’re not actually taking anything. If you were in such a store, you’d only have your base moral convictions to keep you from cloning every movie in sight. And anyone who knows how to get to this store isn’t going to let their conscience stop them, especially when there is no tangible “loss” to even feel bad about.

As far as these paragraphs are concerned: true.

It’s not a physical product that’s being taken. There’s nothing going missing, which is generally the hallmark of any good theft. The movie and music industries’ claim that each download is a lost sale is absurd. I might take every movie in that fictional store if I was able to, but would I have spent $3 million to legally buy every single DVD? No, I’d probably have picked my two favorite movies and gone home. So yes, there are losses, but they are miniscule compared to what the companies actually claim they’re losing.

I dunno how miniscule the losses are, but apparently neither does the author, because he doesn't use numbers.

The seven step, ten minute download process (which will be about ten seconds when US internet speeds catch up with the rest of the world) is the real enemy the studios should be trying to tackle. Right now, the industry is still stuck in the past, and is crawling oh-so-slowly into the future. They still believe people are going to want to buy DVDs or Blu-rays in five years, and that a movie ticket is well worth $15. Netflix is the closest thing they have to an advocate, but the studios are trying to drive them out of business as they see them as a threat, not a solution. It’s mind boggling.

Here's where the article loses me.
Fact: the biggest grossing film of all times is only 2 years old. Every time I go to the movies on a Saturday the cinema is packed with people, no matter which new film came out.
I don't like how the article assumes everyone's is a lazy ass comp nerd who wants his films as .avi files. I know I don't.

The primary problem movie studios have to realize is that everything they charge for is massively overpriced. The fact that movie ticket prices keep going up is astonishing. How can they possibly think charging $10-15 per ticket for a new feature is going to increase the amount of people coming to theaters rather than renting the movie later or downloading it online for free? Rather than lower prices, they double down, saying that gimmicks like 3D and IMAX are worth adding another $5 to your ticket.

That may be so, but as I stated above, from what I can tell the numbers may not be as big as 10, 20 years ago, but movie theaters are still doing okay, thankfully. It'll be a sad day for everyone when there aren't any people left who prefer to see a new film on the big screen together with 300 other people over watching it on their own little laptop.

They have failed to realize that people want things to be easy. Physically going to the movies is hard enough without paying way too much for the privilege. Going to a store and buying a DVD instead of renting or downloading is generally an impractical thing to do unless you A) really love a particular movie or B) are an avid film buff or collector.

Well, I guess I belong into that group then. I am okay with buying my films.
I have to admit that the whole "easy and available right now" thing gets me is music and TV shows, but the solution would have to be the same for those as it is for movie piracy:

With movie collectors like me apparently being the minority by now, the solution is for the industry to accept that this is a war they can not win in the long run and offer solutions that are easy and cheap for everyone, like the example used here.

And here’s something no one has stopped to consider: Maybe making movies is too damn expensive. Or rather, far more expensive than it needs to be.

That's where things get really silly, though. The movie industry is what it is. It's not gonna change actor wages or production budgets because of internet piracy. Not while theaters are still full, which they are.
I also don't think physical media will be gone in 5 or 20 years, that's silly to assume. If I love something I don't want it sitting on my hard drive, I want a cover around it and sit on my shelf. I really hope the majority of people still feel the same way.

Perhaps A-list actors do not need multi-multi-million dollar salaries when there are thousands of hardworking amateurs trying to get noticed. Perhaps not every graphic novel and board game needs $100M or $200M thrown at it in order to become a feature film when there are hundreds of creative, original screenplays that get tossed in the trash. Perhaps you don’t need to spend an additional $100M marketing a movie when everyone is fast-forwarding through commercials and has AdBlock on their browsers.

This paragraph made me roll my eyes the most. It sounds a little bit like the poor little kid being jealous of the rich brat down the street. Yeah well, the rich brat's dad worked for his money. Deal with it.

I believe in paying money for products that earn it. I do not believe in a pricing and distribution model that still thinks it’s 1998. And I really don’t believe in censoring the internet so that studio and label executives can add a few more millions onto their already enormous money pile.

Treat your customers with respect , and they’ll do the same to you. And that is how you fight piracy.

Overall, we can agree on this. These laws are no solution. Turning millions of people into serious criminals for something they can do with 4 mouse clicks is no solution.
Offering alternatives for little money and effort will work. It'll have little influence on people like me, who prefer going to the movies and buying their BluRays, but at least it'll cover all those who wanna watch any film any time within a few clicks.
I know I'd stop downloading music if I could pay a flat rate and just listen to and burn whatever I want.
The gf and me pay 5 Euro extra each month for a couple of cable HD channels that do air the shows only weeks after they come out, and in original too. See, no more download for those shows needed.

*MySmiley*

You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling.

Reply to message

You will never kill piracy, and piracy will never kill you moondog - 05/02/2012 06:56:57 PM 1102 Views

Pretty much A Deathwatch Guard - 05/02/2012 08:39:16 PM 322 Views

The article both raises good points and is full of shit ironclad - 05/02/2012 11:36:25 PM 592 Views

Re: The article both raises good points and is full of shit DomA - 06/02/2012 02:07:01 AM 490 Views

Re: The article both raises good points and is full of shit everynametaken - 06/02/2012 02:11:38 AM 520 Views

Then it really seems to differ between our countries ironclad - 06/02/2012 10:52:39 AM 463 Views

What are your ticket prices? *NM* Macharius - 06/02/2012 12:53:04 PM 203 Views

Between 5 (students or special offers) and 10 - 11 Euro for 3D films. *NM* ironclad - 06/02/2012 01:12:08 PM 207 Views

With the exchange rate, that sounds fairly comparable to my local area. Macharius - 06/02/2012 04:20:18 PM 372 Views

are those theaters all hollywood movies or from european studios? moondog - 06/02/2012 03:01:37 PM 515 Views

Both, basically ironclad - 06/02/2012 04:55:36 PM 516 Views

I just want to comment on a couple things. I feel like you're a little bit behind the times.

Aemon - 06/02/2012 05:23:40 AM 588 Views

Disagree. *NM* Stephen - 06/02/2012 09:38:56 AM 348 Views

Feel like explaining? *NM* Aemon - 06/02/2012 03:25:11 PM 179 Views

Well, call me old-fashioned but I think that'll be my preference for a while now. ironclad - 06/02/2012 10:36:41 AM 452 Views

It's not just a matter of taste when one technology is demonstrably superior. Aemon - 06/02/2012 04:04:27 PM 470 Views

Re: It's not just a matter of taste when one technology is demonstrably superior. Macharius - 06/02/2012 04:27:09 PM 354 Views

It's rare, I'll admit.

Aemon - 06/02/2012 06:19:20 PM 342 Views

My age is gonna show even more in the next reply, but here we go

ironclad - 06/02/2012 06:25:09 PM 456 Views

Re: My age is gonna show even more in the next reply, but here we go

Aemon - 06/02/2012 08:13:48 PM 491 Views

I'll give you a hint. Jacob - 13/02/2012 03:31:56 PM 585 Views

Re: I'll give you a hint. DomA - 14/02/2012 01:52:50 AM 392 Views

Re: My age is gonna show even more in the next reply, but here we go

DomA - 06/02/2012 11:04:21 PM 392 Views

yeah, cinemas here aren't doing so well ranagrande - 06/02/2012 01:33:06 PM 413 Views

That subject line well encapsulates this whole debate, IMHO. Joel - 07/02/2012 07:52:22 PM 444 Views

That pretty much echoes my opinion on the subject DomA - 06/02/2012 12:56:49 AM 501 Views

Holy text-wall, Batman! Macharius - 06/02/2012 12:49:28 PM 400 Views

I did not ask for alternative LAWS, Obama did; I merely quoted him, and this article mentions no law Joel - 07/02/2012 04:50:14 AM 523 Views

you're confusing the issue moondog - 07/02/2012 06:22:30 AM 391 Views

No, I am clarifying the issue. Joel - 07/02/2012 06:54:40 AM 511 Views

again, you are taking the wrong approach moondog - 07/02/2012 03:57:03 PM 489 Views

I disagree, and there are factual errors in your statements. Joel - 07/02/2012 07:36:16 PM 466 Views

actually, there are not moondog - 08/02/2012 04:15:09 AM 376 Views

Yeah, actually there are. Joel - 09/02/2012 01:53:02 AM 483 Views

Re: Yeah, actually there are. ranagrande - 10/02/2012 04:11:10 AM 417 Views

Technically, the first point is true, but I disagree the distinction is important in terms of piracy Joel - 12/02/2012 01:09:01 AM 414 Views

Without realizing Joel, you're getting closer and closer to some of our views... DomA - 12/02/2012 09:24:22 AM 434 Views

To a large extent my issue is with means rather than ends. Joel - 13/02/2012 09:45:39 AM 508 Views

Re: To a large extent my issue is with means rather than ends. DomA - 13/02/2012 11:43:02 PM 392 Views

Re: To a large extent my issue is with means rather than ends. Joel - 04/03/2012 01:06:26 AM 484 Views

Re: No, I am clarifying the issue. DomA - 07/02/2012 07:52:42 PM 435 Views

It is not the same as taping an album for a friend. Joel - 09/02/2012 01:18:42 AM 483 Views

Re: It is not the same as taping an album for a friend. DomA - 09/02/2012 10:39:05 PM 383 Views

Re: It is not the same as taping an album for a friend. Joel - 12/02/2012 12:04:57 AM 470 Views

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<quote id="243847">
<quote id="243818">What’s clear is that legislation is not the answer. Piracy is already illegal in the US, and most places around the world, yet it persists underground, but more often in plain sight. Short of passing a law that allows the actual blacklisting of websites like China and Iran, there is no legislative solution.  That’s what SOPA and PIPA were attempting to do, but it so obviously trampled on the First Amendment, it was laughed out of existence as the entire internet protested it. The only other thing you could get the internet to agree on was if they tried to institute a ban on cat pictures.</quote>
<quote id="243818">So, what to do? Go the other direction. Realize piracy is a service problem. Right now, from the browser window in which I’m writing this article, it is possible to download and start watching a movie for free in a few swift clicks.</quote>
<quote id="243818">It’s not moral, it’s not right, but it’s there and it’s easy and there’s no one to stop you from doing it, and never will be. If after ten years and millions of dollars in legal fees they finally manage to kill the Pirate Bay, there are hundreds of other torrent sites that exist, and more will spring up. If they ban torrents altogether, the internet will invent something new.</quote>
<quote id="243818">Piracy is not raiding and plundering Best Buys and FYEs, smashing the windows and running out with the loot. It’s like being placed in a store full of every DVD in existence. There are no employees, no security guards, and when you take a copy of movie, another one materializes in its place, so you’re not actually taking anything. If you were in such a store, you’d only have your base moral convictions to keep you from cloning every movie in sight. And anyone who knows how to get to this store isn’t going to let their conscience stop them, especially when there is no tangible “loss” to even feel bad about.</quote>
As far as these paragraphs are concerned: true.

<quote id="243818">It’s not a physical product that’s being taken. There’s nothing going missing, which is generally the hallmark of any good theft. The movie and music industries’ claim that each download is a lost sale is absurd. I might take every movie in that fictional store if I was able to, but would I have spent $3 million to legally buy every single DVD? No, I’d probably have picked my two favorite movies and gone home. So yes, there are losses, but they are miniscule compared to what the companies actually claim they’re losing.</quote>
I dunno how miniscule the losses are, but apparently neither does the author, because he doesn't use numbers.

<quote id="243818">The seven step, ten minute download process (which will be about ten seconds when US internet speeds catch up with the rest of the world) is the real enemy the studios should be trying to tackle. Right now, the industry is still stuck in the past, and is crawling oh-so-slowly into the future. They still believe people are going to want to buy DVDs or Blu-rays in five years, and that a movie ticket is well worth $15. Netflix is the closest thing they have to an advocate, but the studios are trying to drive them out of business as they see them as a threat, not a solution. It’s mind boggling.</quote>
Here's where the article loses me.
Fact: the biggest grossing film of all times is only 2 years old. Every time I go to the movies on a Saturday the cinema is packed with people, no matter which new film came out.
I don't like how the article assumes everyone's is a lazy ass comp nerd who wants his films as .avi files. I know I don't.

<quote id="243818">The primary problem movie studios have to realize is that everything they charge for is massively overpriced. The fact that movie ticket prices keep going up is astonishing. How can they possibly think charging $10-15 per ticket for a new feature is going to increase the amount of people coming to theaters rather than renting the movie later or downloading it online for free? Rather than lower prices, they double down, saying that gimmicks like 3D and IMAX are worth adding another $5 to your ticket.</quote>
That may be so, but as I stated above, from what I can tell the numbers may not be as big as 10, 20 years ago, but movie theaters are still doing okay, thankfully. It'll be a sad day for everyone when there aren't any people left who prefer to see a new film on the big screen together with 300 other people over watching it on their own little laptop.

<quote id="243818">They have failed to realize that people want things to be easy. Physically going to the movies is hard enough without paying way too much for the privilege. Going to a store and buying a DVD instead of renting or downloading is generally an impractical thing to do unless you A) really love a particular movie or B) are an avid film buff or collector.</quote>
Well, I guess I belong into that group then. I am okay with buying my films. 
I have to admit that the whole "easy and available right now" thing gets me is music and TV shows, but the solution would have to be the same for those as it is for movie piracy:

With movie collectors like me apparently being the minority by now, the solution is for the industry to accept that this is a war they can not win in the long run and offer solutions that are easy and cheap for everyone, like the example used here.

<quote id="243818">And here’s something no one has stopped to consider: Maybe making movies is too damn expensive. Or rather, far more expensive than it needs to be.</quote>
That's where things get really silly, though. The movie industry is what it is. It's not gonna change actor wages or production budgets because of internet piracy. Not while theaters are still full, which they are.
I also don't think physical media will be gone in 5 or 20 years, that's silly to assume. If I love something I don't want it sitting on my hard drive, I want a cover around it and sit on my shelf. I really hope the majority of people still feel the same way.

<quote id="243818">Perhaps A-list actors do not need multi-multi-million dollar salaries when there are thousands of hardworking amateurs trying to get noticed. Perhaps not every graphic novel and board game needs $100M or $200M thrown at it in order to become a feature film when there are hundreds of creative, original screenplays that get tossed in the trash. Perhaps you don’t need to spend an additional $100M marketing a movie when everyone is fast-forwarding through commercials and has AdBlock on their browsers.</quote>
This paragraph made me roll my eyes the most. It sounds a little bit like the poor little kid being jealous of the rich brat down the street. Yeah well, the rich brat's dad worked for his money. Deal with it.

<quote id="243818">I believe in paying money for products that earn it. I do not believe in a pricing and distribution model that still thinks it’s 1998. And I really don’t believe in censoring the internet so that studio and label executives can add a few more millions onto their already enormous money pile.</quote>
<quote id="243818">Treat your customers with respect , and they’ll do the same to you. And that is how you fight piracy.</quote>
Overall, we can agree on this. These laws are no solution. Turning millions of people into serious criminals for something they can do with 4 mouse clicks is no solution.
Offering alternatives for little money and effort will work. It'll have little influence on people like me, who prefer going to the movies and buying their BluRays, but at least it'll cover all those who wanna watch any film any time within a few clicks.
I know I'd stop downloading music if I could pay a flat rate and just listen to and burn whatever I want.
The gf and me pay 5 Euro extra each month for a couple of cable HD channels that do air the shows only weeks after they come out, and in original too. See, no more download for those shows needed.
</quote>

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