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Re: I'm not surprised there were missing incidents Legolas Send a noteboard - 31/07/2012 09:14:34 PM
In my original reply there's a brief bit of me discussing the US averaging 2 or 3 a year and how that compared up with other countries with smaller population like Norway, and then general stream of crime per capita, but that was the only list I could find... I did encounter your Rampage Killings list when try to relocate the one I'd quoted but it does not paste properly into Excel and individually counting them all and comparing wasn't something I was in the mood for. You'll also note the list of citations is thin and doesn't include - that I saw - any citation of some formal table or research. It may or may not be accurate, but I'm choosing to assume that the list is light on all fronts, and thus is missing non-US incidents as well, and proportionally. The list you attached is 'Americas' so it's hard to compare to Europe, but I will note that the 'Americas' list was 116 entries and Europe's was 99, and that the Americas have 900 million people in them. True, most of the rampages listed are in the US but I'd distrust data from almost anywhere south of the Rio Grande much as I would East of Berlin. My personal guess is the US does have more of these, but I think it's within some single to double digit percentage rather than some order of magnitude thing like 10x.

2 or 3 per year does seem more likely, both based on my personal impression and on the numbers that quick Wikipedia search yielded.

And yeah, people's general perception is warped by the simple fact of the US having so many more inhabitants - many European countries have just one notable mass shooting in recent history, or none, but then they may only have 5% of the American population or less. There's also a perception that the shootings, particularly those in schools, are "imported" from the US, fall-out from Columbine and all, which I suppose further distorts the impression about the numbers. Of course, tons of things are "imported" from the US to Europe that way, and it's only the bad ones that are generally acknowledged as such, as one might expect. Your guess sounds plausible enough to me.

As Nate pointed out, the non-spree murders would be a better point to focus on - the US having a homicide rate of multiple times that of most European countries, much of it with guns. But whether tighter gun control would appreciably bring down that homicide rate, is obviously a different question. You could avoid certain categories of homicides, I do think, like that shooting in Florida earlier this year - take the gun out of the equation and nobody dies there. Some other categories, not so much, and as pro-gun folks keep pointing out, a gun in the hands of the right person can occasionally save lives as well.
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Do you have strong feelings/opinions about gun control? - 25/07/2012 05:48:56 AM 1460 Views
Kind of? - 25/07/2012 05:59:39 AM 902 Views
Agreed - 25/07/2012 06:20:44 AM 752 Views
Re: Agreed - 25/07/2012 06:29:16 AM 898 Views
A lot of people are uncomfortable about homsexuality. Let's ban that too. - 25/07/2012 09:26:46 PM 888 Views
Feisty. - 25/07/2012 09:54:31 PM 995 Views
I'm pro-guns, but I don't think I have strong feelings about anything - 25/07/2012 07:36:31 AM 822 Views
I am mostly in agreement with you. - 26/07/2012 02:11:56 AM 697 Views
Fully automatic weapons are already forbidden, aren't they? - 27/07/2012 02:19:57 AM 820 Views
Pretty strong (as someone born, raised and living outside the US) - 25/07/2012 11:23:52 AM 905 Views
I'm okay with guns in very limited circumstances. - 25/07/2012 11:41:13 AM 954 Views
Re: I'm okay with guns in very limited circumstances. - 25/07/2012 01:21:36 PM 849 Views
Inevitable thread, but mostly I feel people enters this debate without knowing enough about guns - 25/07/2012 02:05:12 PM 1032 Views
I have to admit that I didn't read most of that, sorry. - 25/07/2012 02:47:05 PM 938 Views
Re: I have to admit that I didn't read most of that, sorry. - 25/07/2012 03:00:07 PM 840 Views
Re: - 25/07/2012 03:30:44 PM 881 Views
Okay, that makes no sense - 25/07/2012 04:32:28 PM 894 Views
Re: Re: - 25/07/2012 05:50:23 PM 927 Views
Re: I have to admit that I didn't read most of that, sorry. - 25/07/2012 10:48:46 PM 928 Views
I understand, but you probably should if time permits - 25/07/2012 03:49:49 PM 1042 Views
It is unlikely to, for a while. - 25/07/2012 10:37:30 PM 920 Views
Oh, but you have time to read Cannoli though - 26/07/2012 01:10:50 AM 857 Views
... his was shorter? - 26/07/2012 02:41:48 PM 784 Views
Yeah but mine had diagrams! - 26/07/2012 03:46:49 PM 862 Views
I do sometimes need pictures. - 26/07/2012 04:55:17 PM 712 Views
Re: I do sometimes need pictures. - 26/07/2012 04:57:57 PM 866 Views
*NM* - 26/07/2012 05:23:11 PM 415 Views
Where exactly did you get those numbers? - 27/07/2012 07:23:31 PM 878 Views
He's right as far as numbers go. - 27/07/2012 08:08:02 PM 911 Views
Wikipedia, the unchallenged source for acurate and complete citation - 27/07/2012 08:19:40 PM 941 Views
Sorry, I totally forgot about this post, hadn't noticed your replies. - 31/07/2012 07:42:43 PM 865 Views
I'm not surprised there were missing incidents - 31/07/2012 08:18:04 PM 839 Views
Re: I'm not surprised there were missing incidents - 31/07/2012 09:14:34 PM 815 Views
Re: I'm not surprised there were missing incidents - 31/07/2012 11:56:05 PM 977 Views
Norway? Scotland? - 25/07/2012 09:31:49 PM 812 Views
You can keep this up - 25/07/2012 09:56:28 PM 804 Views
Hi, Cannoli. - 25/07/2012 10:30:56 PM 825 Views
well it could have at least double posted the edited version - 26/07/2012 10:40:32 PM 779 Views
Most of those numbers come from inner city violence - 26/07/2012 10:40:34 PM 994 Views
Re: Hi, Cannoli. - 09/08/2012 09:07:03 PM 881 Views
The UK tightened gun laws after the Dunblane massacre. - 25/07/2012 10:58:08 PM 766 Views
I have no problem with guns, but I agree that assault weapons shouldn't be legal for ordinary people - 25/07/2012 02:56:38 PM 887 Views
The problem with banning assualt weapons is the defention is mostly cosmetic - 25/07/2012 05:29:35 PM 785 Views
Bullshit - 26/07/2012 01:52:59 PM 932 Views
I call Bullshit on your Bullshit - 26/07/2012 02:59:09 PM 842 Views
Or - 26/07/2012 03:20:12 PM 751 Views
There a lot of us with military training and some were in that theater - 26/07/2012 03:43:52 PM 765 Views
HE was talking about normal people. - 26/07/2012 04:53:16 PM 867 Views
I think we are talking past each other - 26/07/2012 05:55:48 PM 841 Views
Possibly. We do do that. - 26/07/2012 06:52:58 PM 869 Views
In addition to random thoughts's points... - 26/07/2012 03:10:56 PM 797 Views
You're partially right but mostly wrong - 26/07/2012 05:46:27 PM 852 Views
Correct me if I'm wrong.... - 25/07/2012 03:53:07 PM 1009 Views
You're wrong - 25/07/2012 04:37:22 PM 778 Views
Yes. - 25/07/2012 05:09:36 PM 776 Views
Yes and I am glad it's not my problem. - 25/07/2012 06:41:56 PM 922 Views
Dude, your burglary argument makes no sense - 25/07/2012 11:09:37 PM 818 Views
It makes lots of sense, actually. - 25/07/2012 11:55:59 PM 820 Views
They don't bring guns here. Huh. *NM* - 26/07/2012 12:59:15 AM 402 Views
they don't typically bring guns here either - 26/07/2012 02:01:14 AM 914 Views
That's how I understand it too but I'm dubious, many criminals are dumber than a bag of hammers - 26/07/2012 02:22:18 AM 763 Views
Ha! - 26/07/2012 12:07:20 PM 696 Views
One of my Marine friends became a Fort Worth cop when he got out - 26/07/2012 03:11:12 PM 880 Views
You get some wild stories - 26/07/2012 06:09:52 PM 891 Views
Like I've always said, you can't un-invent the gun - 25/07/2012 11:05:22 PM 784 Views
Agreed. It's really a lot like health care, in a way. - 26/07/2012 12:07:20 AM 896 Views
Sure, but you can legislate certain excessive firearms. - 26/07/2012 09:41:12 PM 852 Views
assault rifles are banned - 26/07/2012 10:51:28 PM 824 Views
Touchy - 28/07/2012 04:33:46 AM 1000 Views

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