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Thanks; I still do not see much to change my mind. Joel Send a noteboard - 26/09/2012 02:32:43 AM

However, here is a new rule for general life based on the call from the end of tonight's game: If you are holding your baby and I walk up and grab your baby, I own your baby.

Like I say, I REALLY want to see this play, because when you put it like that, that is actually true on a football field: If a player on one team takes a ball away from a player on the other before the whistle blows, forward progress is stopped; before the ball carrier is DOWN, the player who strips the ball gains possession. In the case of receivers stripping defenders that is doubly so, because when possession is contested, simultaneous possession goes to the RECEIVER (one of many football rules favoring the offense.)

So if that how it is actually went—the Packers DB did not take a knee, go out of bounds or otherwise end the play before stripped—yeah, that sounds like a TD.

The DB had possession first and then Golden Tate gained co-possession as they were coming down. The rule is that the ball goes to the passing team if they gain control simultaneously.... which they did not. Or at least, it appeared that way to me.

Tates left hand is between Jennings'; it is physically impossible for Jennings to catch the ball with both hands unless Tates left hand is on it, too. His right hand (though it is hard to see on the YouTube clip (try 0:57-58)) appears to me be over Jennings' right arm and on the ball. That is simultaneous possession. I am not even 100% certain any part of Jennings' body except his feet was on the ground AFTER the catch (and before Tate had sole possession,) which would make it a reg'lar ol' strip and whoever had it last had possession. That the catch began with both of Tates hands on the ball and ended with Jennings' on top of him trying (but failing) to pry it from his arms makes me pretty certain the call was correct.

That clip makes me less certain Tate had his left hand on the ball the whole time Jennings was catching it (since it looks like his left hand was, at least at one point, below rather than between Jennings') but it is hard to be sure, and replay reversal requires "incontrovertible" evidence, not inconclusive. It is also hard to be sure from that clip Jennings was ever down even if he DID have sole possession, so Tate could still have legally stripped him even if he did NOT have simultaneous possession.

Had I been on the field, I would have made the same call, perforce; had I been in the replay booth, I also could not have overturned it.
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This message last edited by Joel on 26/09/2012 at 02:33:35 AM
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/NFL: now that replacement refs have cost the packers a win, can we please get the real ones back? *NM* moondog - 25/09/2012 05:14:58 AM 726 Views
I was gonna keep it to one thread, but hell, I'll join yours. Dannymac - 25/09/2012 05:24:26 AM 840 Views
Link? Clip? Joel - 25/09/2012 05:27:07 AM 800 Views
Let's just say that Gruden used the word "Jobbed" in the live telecast. *NM* Dannymac - 25/09/2012 05:35:08 AM 517 Views
Here's a link. Dannymac - 25/09/2012 05:36:56 AM 895 Views
Yes and no; that is the link I referenced in my post. Joel - 25/09/2012 05:47:07 AM 719 Views
Re: Yes and no; that is the link I referenced in my post. Dannymac - 25/09/2012 05:52:55 AM 945 Views
Re: Yes and no; that is the link I referenced in my post. Joel - 25/09/2012 06:13:46 AM 904 Views
youtube link Orange - 25/09/2012 07:00:29 AM 928 Views
Thanks; that looks like a textbook case of simultaneous possession, which goes to the receiver: TD. Joel - 25/09/2012 07:29:28 AM 798 Views
pete carroll is a cheating douchebag, you cannot take his word for what happened moondog - 25/09/2012 10:59:33 AM 1071 Views
I did not; I watched the clip: Simultaneous possession, which goes to the receiver. Joel - 26/09/2012 01:30:18 AM 1400 Views
watch a better replay if you can moondog - 26/09/2012 02:38:17 AM 858 Views
Have now; still not convinced. Joel - 26/09/2012 04:01:23 AM 914 Views
that's ok. you're still wrong moondog - 26/09/2012 04:12:56 AM 919 Views
I know you are but what am I? *MN* Joel - 26/09/2012 04:48:47 AM 856 Views
also, the pass interference on tate that wasn't called is clear at 0:56 in that clip moondog - 25/09/2012 11:27:36 AM 885 Views
Tate was looking for the ball, and raised his hands to catch it, not push off Sam Shields. Joel - 26/09/2012 01:33:46 AM 826 Views
watch a better replay and get back to me on this one. moondog - 26/09/2012 02:36:43 AM 871 Views
Where did the NFL head office acknowledge that? Joel - 26/09/2012 03:52:36 AM 962 Views
in their official response to the whole incident....? moondog - 26/09/2012 04:14:52 AM 1100 Views
Fair enough then; the NFLs official position is that offensive PI should have been called. Joel - 26/09/2012 04:45:58 AM 886 Views
Yeah, if one hand counts as possession Dannymac - 25/09/2012 05:15:37 PM 882 Views
new rule: catch the guy who caught the ball -- score a TD *NM* moondog - 26/09/2012 12:10:05 AM 438 Views
Left hand between Jennings' arms and on the ball; right was outside Jennings' arm and on the ball. Joel - 26/09/2012 01:38:28 AM 816 Views
How have you not seen this play? Are you in a cave? *NM* Dark Knight - 25/09/2012 03:57:55 PM 419 Views
No, I am in Norway, where NFL coverage is rather limited. Joel - 26/09/2012 01:40:07 AM 1006 Views
Wait, you're not in Houston? *NM* Dark Knight - 26/09/2012 01:42:45 AM 434 Views
Not since the Texas Sesquicentennial, no. Joel - 26/09/2012 01:45:29 AM 771 Views
While you can hardly blame the replacement refs because they are basically trainees... Mats Gambling Buddy - 25/09/2012 06:05:22 AM 981 Views
Now I really want to see this play. Joel - 25/09/2012 06:27:42 AM 1000 Views
Re: Now I really want to see this play. Mats Gambling Buddy - 25/09/2012 02:48:56 PM 896 Views
I have still only seen the YouTube clip, but it looked like they both had both hands on the ball. Joel - 26/09/2012 01:58:27 AM 818 Views
There are good views on nfl.com. Will link. callandor1000 - 26/09/2012 02:16:51 AM 984 Views
Thanks; I still do not see much to change my mind. Joel - 26/09/2012 02:32:43 AM 910 Views
The last call was a joke. Orange - 25/09/2012 06:52:59 AM 861 Views
You might appreciate learning that the Lingerie Football League fired some of these refs Larry - 25/09/2012 07:19:37 AM 904 Views
Tie goes to the receiver - the rule for decades. The Packers benefitted from worse calls last year Cannoli - 25/09/2012 11:31:47 AM 916 Views
you probably think greedo shot first too..... moondog - 25/09/2012 01:49:03 PM 866 Views
Possession doesn't mean squat until you land. Tate had it by then Cannoli - 25/09/2012 03:13:29 PM 861 Views
he had nothing until they landed and he tried to pull it away. everyone but you agrees on this *NM* moondog - 25/09/2012 03:25:43 PM 407 Views
Not so; Cannoli and I agree on pretty much every point involved in this play. Joel - 26/09/2012 02:17:01 AM 833 Views
They can't reverse that call. Aemon - 25/09/2012 04:43:28 PM 944 Views
the only possible way was to rule it incomplete moondog - 25/09/2012 10:42:25 PM 936 Views
It was very obviously caught; you can't rule that incomplete. Aemon - 25/09/2012 11:06:17 PM 830 Views
my philosophy is "interception = incomplete" but i think that's only for stats purposes moondog - 26/09/2012 12:32:43 AM 805 Views
Congrats Cannoli, you are the only person (thing?) in the country who thinks it's a TD *NM* Dark Knight - 25/09/2012 03:53:18 PM 541 Views
I'm not even the only person in this thread, moron. *NM* Cannoli - 25/09/2012 04:07:48 PM 453 Views
Joel hasn't even seen the play, douchebag *NM* Dark Knight - 25/09/2012 04:12:35 PM 417 Views
Just so you can get this information without namecalling ... Nate - 25/09/2012 04:18:41 PM 831 Views
No I mean he hasn't seen the replay over and over on ESPN *NM* Dark Knight - 25/09/2012 04:21:46 PM 421 Views
I have seen enough of it, and while I did not write Cannolis response, I easily could have. Joel - 26/09/2012 02:06:45 AM 861 Views
Interesting. What is the rule with arguing refs? Dannymac - 25/09/2012 05:18:35 PM 784 Views
That response was disturbingly like my thoughts on the play. Joel - 26/09/2012 01:49:37 AM 875 Views
As a Seahawks fan. Stephen - 25/09/2012 02:10:58 PM 829 Views
No. Not with that attitude. *NM* Palatine - 25/09/2012 04:03:32 PM 401 Views
*throws public tantrum* *NM* moondog - 25/09/2012 10:39:22 PM 386 Views
Slightly (very) loopy yet entertaining piece on why Ayn Rand is to blame for all of this. Stephen - 25/09/2012 05:38:12 PM 809 Views
She hates revenue sharing, salary caps & the draft, too, but the Pack would be screwed without each. Joel - 26/09/2012 03:34:00 AM 829 Views
Here's the proof Cannoli is refusing to see Dark Knight - 25/09/2012 05:54:07 PM 930 Views
Clearer shot, but stills do not allow us to see where Tates hands were at all times. Joel - 26/09/2012 02:10:25 AM 732 Views
you can't claim "good ol' strip" *AND* simultaneous catch -- which is it? moondog - 26/09/2012 02:35:41 AM 1165 Views
I do not claim both: I claim simultaneous catch but IF not, then strip. Joel - 26/09/2012 03:51:47 AM 1171 Views
you sure you saw the right replay? moondog - 26/09/2012 04:21:57 AM 836 Views
Think so, yeah. Joel - 26/09/2012 04:58:15 AM 996 Views
from another angle -- pun intended moondog - 26/09/2012 04:01:54 PM 834 Views
There are two separate issues: 1) Was it a simultaneous catch; 2) IF not, was it a strip? Joel - 27/09/2012 08:54:52 AM 1025 Views
your opinion is against pretty much everyone in the world, so..... *shrug* moondog - 27/09/2012 03:55:33 PM 1065 Views
Thanks; I did not expect you to give in so easily. Joel - 27/09/2012 10:14:30 PM 873 Views
did you even read that article??? moondog - 28/09/2012 12:35:39 AM 873 Views
"his control wasn’t established again...." Joel - 28/09/2012 01:08:03 AM 1327 Views
wow, what a thorough analysis you sent me either way, you're still wrong moondog - 28/09/2012 02:05:24 AM 979 Views
That is not an argument. Joel - 28/09/2012 02:26:58 AM 776 Views
Worst calls are made all the time by the regular officials. callandor1000 - 26/09/2012 01:23:57 AM 838 Views
yes, but not usually more than one per game, certainly not several in a single weekend.... *NM* moondog - 26/09/2012 02:39:56 AM 422 Views
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