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Including Capital Letters in pronouncements do NOT make something so Isaac Send a noteboard - 21/03/2013 02:56:43 PM

Of course we can negotiate on gun rights, we've done it before, we've also amended the constitution before. If the left, not that they would, but if the left offered us an amendment banning non-rape/incest/medical abortions in exchange for an amendment banning magazines of 10+ rounds that fucker would fly through congress and 40 states so fast it might violate the laws of physics.

So yes, negotiation is possible on most things. It is possible whenever the vast majority considers the deal acceptable, it is impossible whenever a reasonably large minority considers it worth killing for.

Incidentally my point wasn't that we should be negotiating these things away casually, it is that we should start demanding the left actually put real meat on the table when they propose whichever of their current social miracle cures they've currently crafted or dug up, or call them on it and tell the public how it is. As we currently do things we let them pull a proverbial gun on us and demand ten bucks then let them cry to media and public about how unreasonably and uncompromising we are when they reduced the demand to $5.

This kind of behavior isn't surprising from them, this is a group that fundamentally believes trades need not be voluntary by both parties in the first place. We inevitably play into their hands by not calling them on this behavior. I don't really think they'd be willing to engage in real trade that way but I for one would really be open to it and in good faith, and I suspect a lot of the mod/indies would be okay with it too.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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US Senate Democrats - already cave-in on the gun control bill - 19/03/2013 10:44:55 PM 1643 Views
right wingers are always point out there is no point legislating cosmetics - 19/03/2013 11:52:28 PM 1004 Views
Late Term Abortion, Terry Schavio? *NM* - 19/03/2013 11:57:25 PM 525 Views
You know, what you are hoping for will not make any difference whatsoever..... - 20/03/2013 01:07:58 AM 869 Views
"if at first you don't succeed..... fuck it...." - 20/03/2013 04:10:47 AM 872 Views
I can agree with some of what you stated, though I prefer "logical" to "right winger" - 20/03/2013 01:56:34 AM 978 Views
you are correct. i forget sometimes that there **is** some common ground here.... - 20/03/2013 04:19:13 AM 848 Views
There'd be more common ground if anything were ever offered in exchange for concessions - 20/03/2013 02:20:26 PM 876 Views
Ben Franklin said it best... - 20/03/2013 04:14:45 PM 851 Views
interesting how that quote always applies to so many things, isn't it? - 20/03/2013 05:14:30 PM 859 Views
Absolutely - 21/03/2013 12:20:45 AM 926 Views
Re: Ben Franklin said it best... - 21/03/2013 07:16:25 AM 959 Views
There can be NO negotiation, that is the point. This is a Constitutionally protected Right. - 21/03/2013 01:03:54 PM 901 Views
Including Capital Letters in pronouncements do NOT make something so - 21/03/2013 02:56:43 PM 927 Views
if there have to be concessions, what do you recommend? - 20/03/2013 05:10:53 PM 1002 Views
That would depend, something of equal value - 20/03/2013 09:13:23 PM 914 Views
when very little is being given up, how do we determine equal value? - 20/03/2013 10:31:59 PM 1131 Views
Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining - 21/03/2013 10:53:22 AM 880 Views
Re: Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining - 21/03/2013 07:16:57 PM 1003 Views
Re: Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining - 21/03/2013 08:53:20 PM 1026 Views
some answers - 21/03/2013 10:04:45 PM 1273 Views
Re: some answers - 21/03/2013 11:33:21 PM 1054 Views
Re: the NRA - 22/03/2013 07:44:06 PM 887 Views
This is a matter of POV bias - 22/03/2013 09:04:25 PM 836 Views
we will have to agree to disagree then - 22/03/2013 10:12:02 PM 873 Views
I already knew we disagreed, that's why I suggested bargaining - 22/03/2013 11:11:04 PM 882 Views
i am merely taking the NRA at their word(s) - 23/03/2013 12:13:18 AM 812 Views
Re: i am merely taking the NRA at their word(s) - 23/03/2013 02:04:39 AM 1065 Views
i am not trying to sway, just come to an understanding - 23/03/2013 03:03:14 PM 1026 Views
I think you've actually managed to widen our gap - 23/03/2013 03:53:55 PM 1031 Views
yes, because it was a failed attempt to re-boot and start the debate from the beginning..... - 24/03/2013 03:33:05 AM 1224 Views
I've difficulty seeing the point of going back to first principles but I'm willing to try - 24/03/2013 02:13:29 PM 868 Views
this has been more insightful than our previous tit-for-tat responses, actually - 26/03/2013 07:40:27 PM 904 Views
There's always room for reaosnable dialogue - 26/03/2013 10:09:58 PM 1120 Views
even so, we are at yet another impasse.... - 26/03/2013 11:37:04 PM 953 Views
Probably, I don't know why that surprises you - 27/03/2013 02:02:54 AM 828 Views
I can see the argument for limiting magazine capapcity but it would be hard to enforce - 20/03/2013 05:11:51 PM 874 Views
It would be a stupid meaningless "feel good" law as changing magazines takes almost no time. *NM* - 21/03/2013 01:05:34 PM 457 Views
I can't argue that - 21/03/2013 06:14:09 PM 856 Views
canada's magazine restrictions are credited with reducing fatalities in a mass shooting - 21/03/2013 07:22:45 PM 947 Views
what is high capacity? - 21/03/2013 11:09:09 PM 828 Views
according to the law, whatever is larger than the legal limit - 21/03/2013 11:31:08 PM 889 Views
There is no gun control, only gun *centralization* - 20/03/2013 05:32:59 PM 896 Views
Regarding guns sold which are used in crimes - 20/03/2013 10:41:21 PM 872 Views
Your specified legal requirements already exist. *NM* - 21/03/2013 02:05:12 AM 445 Views
So what other stipulations would you put into effect? *NM* - 21/03/2013 02:42:53 AM 442 Views
none- I'd simply actually punish criminals instead of trying to "reform" them. *NM* - 21/03/2013 01:13:29 PM 467 Views
Criminals need to be punished AND reformed for their inevitable release back into society *NM* - 21/03/2013 11:58:20 PM 457 Views
I've always been rather partial to the criminal justice system in Heinlein's Starship Troopers novel - 22/03/2013 02:42:09 AM 937 Views
Yeah you're right. Let's just kill everybody who commits a crime - 22/03/2013 02:46:49 AM 869 Views
*NM* - 22/03/2013 10:55:36 AM 463 Views
That's not in Starship Troopers - 22/03/2013 12:51:44 PM 861 Views
Yeah, there was a small number of capital offenses (13 I think), most not specified. - 22/03/2013 05:27:11 PM 853 Views
14 then, he lists stupidity as one in another book - 22/03/2013 07:35:13 PM 908 Views
That's why we NEED to reform prisoners - 22/03/2013 10:33:08 PM 818 Views
It is probably an option we should work harder to develop - 23/03/2013 12:38:33 AM 898 Views
Out of curiosity. Is anyone against background checks at gun shows, and if so, why? *NM* - 21/03/2013 09:38:59 AM 438 Views
Not in principle but somewhat in practice - 21/03/2013 11:25:25 AM 1035 Views
For what its worth.... - 21/03/2013 03:13:44 PM 834 Views
Personally, I am worried about criminals with guns. BUT... - 22/03/2013 03:44:47 PM 1167 Views
What you are not factoring into your though process is that most criminals feels the same way. - 24/03/2013 12:56:04 PM 1154 Views
I realize that can be the case. But... - 25/03/2013 03:32:59 PM 1118 Views
Twice I was almost robbed, and my parents were robbed several times. - 26/03/2013 01:35:11 PM 765 Views

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