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Including Capital Letters in pronouncements do NOT make something so Isaac Send a noteboard - 21/03/2013 02:56:43 PM

Of course we can negotiate on gun rights, we've done it before, we've also amended the constitution before. If the left, not that they would, but if the left offered us an amendment banning non-rape/incest/medical abortions in exchange for an amendment banning magazines of 10+ rounds that fucker would fly through congress and 40 states so fast it might violate the laws of physics.

So yes, negotiation is possible on most things. It is possible whenever the vast majority considers the deal acceptable, it is impossible whenever a reasonably large minority considers it worth killing for.

Incidentally my point wasn't that we should be negotiating these things away casually, it is that we should start demanding the left actually put real meat on the table when they propose whichever of their current social miracle cures they've currently crafted or dug up, or call them on it and tell the public how it is. As we currently do things we let them pull a proverbial gun on us and demand ten bucks then let them cry to media and public about how unreasonably and uncompromising we are when they reduced the demand to $5.

This kind of behavior isn't surprising from them, this is a group that fundamentally believes trades need not be voluntary by both parties in the first place. We inevitably play into their hands by not calling them on this behavior. I don't really think they'd be willing to engage in real trade that way but I for one would really be open to it and in good faith, and I suspect a lot of the mod/indies would be okay with it too.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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US Senate Democrats - already cave-in on the gun control bill - 19/03/2013 10:44:55 PM 1440 Views
right wingers are always point out there is no point legislating cosmetics - 19/03/2013 11:52:28 PM 855 Views
Late Term Abortion, Terry Schavio? *NM* - 19/03/2013 11:57:25 PM 420 Views
You know, what you are hoping for will not make any difference whatsoever..... - 20/03/2013 01:07:58 AM 722 Views
"if at first you don't succeed..... fuck it...." - 20/03/2013 04:10:47 AM 730 Views
I can agree with some of what you stated, though I prefer "logical" to "right winger" - 20/03/2013 01:56:34 AM 775 Views
you are correct. i forget sometimes that there **is** some common ground here.... - 20/03/2013 04:19:13 AM 683 Views
There'd be more common ground if anything were ever offered in exchange for concessions - 20/03/2013 02:20:26 PM 728 Views
Ben Franklin said it best... - 20/03/2013 04:14:45 PM 698 Views
interesting how that quote always applies to so many things, isn't it? - 20/03/2013 05:14:30 PM 692 Views
Absolutely - 21/03/2013 12:20:45 AM 755 Views
Re: Ben Franklin said it best... - 21/03/2013 07:16:25 AM 802 Views
There can be NO negotiation, that is the point. This is a Constitutionally protected Right. - 21/03/2013 01:03:54 PM 741 Views
Including Capital Letters in pronouncements do NOT make something so - 21/03/2013 02:56:43 PM 774 Views
if there have to be concessions, what do you recommend? - 20/03/2013 05:10:53 PM 809 Views
That would depend, something of equal value - 20/03/2013 09:13:23 PM 705 Views
when very little is being given up, how do we determine equal value? - 20/03/2013 10:31:59 PM 971 Views
Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining - 21/03/2013 10:53:22 AM 719 Views
Re: Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining - 21/03/2013 07:16:57 PM 780 Views
Re: Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining - 21/03/2013 08:53:20 PM 861 Views
some answers - 21/03/2013 10:04:45 PM 1093 Views
Re: some answers - 21/03/2013 11:33:21 PM 871 Views
Re: the NRA - 22/03/2013 07:44:06 PM 716 Views
This is a matter of POV bias - 22/03/2013 09:04:25 PM 649 Views
we will have to agree to disagree then - 22/03/2013 10:12:02 PM 708 Views
I already knew we disagreed, that's why I suggested bargaining - 22/03/2013 11:11:04 PM 698 Views
i am merely taking the NRA at their word(s) - 23/03/2013 12:13:18 AM 645 Views
Re: i am merely taking the NRA at their word(s) - 23/03/2013 02:04:39 AM 907 Views
i am not trying to sway, just come to an understanding - 23/03/2013 03:03:14 PM 866 Views
I think you've actually managed to widen our gap - 23/03/2013 03:53:55 PM 884 Views
yes, because it was a failed attempt to re-boot and start the debate from the beginning..... - 24/03/2013 03:33:05 AM 1067 Views
I've difficulty seeing the point of going back to first principles but I'm willing to try - 24/03/2013 02:13:29 PM 691 Views
this has been more insightful than our previous tit-for-tat responses, actually - 26/03/2013 07:40:27 PM 679 Views
There's always room for reaosnable dialogue - 26/03/2013 10:09:58 PM 955 Views
even so, we are at yet another impasse.... - 26/03/2013 11:37:04 PM 789 Views
Probably, I don't know why that surprises you - 27/03/2013 02:02:54 AM 653 Views
I can see the argument for limiting magazine capapcity but it would be hard to enforce - 20/03/2013 05:11:51 PM 706 Views
It would be a stupid meaningless "feel good" law as changing magazines takes almost no time. *NM* - 21/03/2013 01:05:34 PM 378 Views
I can't argue that - 21/03/2013 06:14:09 PM 716 Views
canada's magazine restrictions are credited with reducing fatalities in a mass shooting - 21/03/2013 07:22:45 PM 785 Views
what is high capacity? - 21/03/2013 11:09:09 PM 676 Views
according to the law, whatever is larger than the legal limit - 21/03/2013 11:31:08 PM 707 Views
There is no gun control, only gun *centralization* - 20/03/2013 05:32:59 PM 737 Views
Regarding guns sold which are used in crimes - 20/03/2013 10:41:21 PM 695 Views
Your specified legal requirements already exist. *NM* - 21/03/2013 02:05:12 AM 371 Views
So what other stipulations would you put into effect? *NM* - 21/03/2013 02:42:53 AM 354 Views
none- I'd simply actually punish criminals instead of trying to "reform" them. *NM* - 21/03/2013 01:13:29 PM 374 Views
Criminals need to be punished AND reformed for their inevitable release back into society *NM* - 21/03/2013 11:58:20 PM 347 Views
I've always been rather partial to the criminal justice system in Heinlein's Starship Troopers novel - 22/03/2013 02:42:09 AM 789 Views
Yeah you're right. Let's just kill everybody who commits a crime - 22/03/2013 02:46:49 AM 720 Views
*NM* - 22/03/2013 10:55:36 AM 377 Views
That's not in Starship Troopers - 22/03/2013 12:51:44 PM 723 Views
Yeah, there was a small number of capital offenses (13 I think), most not specified. - 22/03/2013 05:27:11 PM 693 Views
14 then, he lists stupidity as one in another book - 22/03/2013 07:35:13 PM 731 Views
That's why we NEED to reform prisoners - 22/03/2013 10:33:08 PM 673 Views
It is probably an option we should work harder to develop - 23/03/2013 12:38:33 AM 724 Views
Out of curiosity. Is anyone against background checks at gun shows, and if so, why? *NM* - 21/03/2013 09:38:59 AM 361 Views
Not in principle but somewhat in practice - 21/03/2013 11:25:25 AM 862 Views
For what its worth.... - 21/03/2013 03:13:44 PM 683 Views
Personally, I am worried about criminals with guns. BUT... - 22/03/2013 03:44:47 PM 995 Views
What you are not factoring into your though process is that most criminals feels the same way. - 24/03/2013 12:56:04 PM 992 Views
I realize that can be the case. But... - 25/03/2013 03:32:59 PM 961 Views
Twice I was almost robbed, and my parents were robbed several times. - 26/03/2013 01:35:11 PM 608 Views

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