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Re: but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. ßelals Girl Send a noteboard - 26/05/2013 12:48:45 AM

View original postDo you honestly doubt that? I've tried to give it some heavy thought, and I think you're completely wrong on this point.

Oh, I'm sure a few people would chime in. Jeordam, Joel maybe, Tom maybe, Cannoli if he's so motivated and possibly Legolas...but I doubt it would get the knee-jerk, frothing reaction that this post has gotten. And I think you know it too, as much as you might dislike it.


View original postI can't speak for everyone, but I do not mind people saying that there are many muslims who choose (and teach) violence - it's obviously a fact. I do, however, mind people claiming that my own religion was never supported by violence and never deserved the opportunity to evolve. I feel we have to offer the same chance to this religion, w/o legally backing the idea that a whole group of people should be judged as potentially violent. For me, there is a difference between knowing that there is currently much unrest in primarily Muslim countries and saying it's ok to treat anyone who looks like they belong there as a potential criminal.

Oh, I definitely agree. But when people argue so passionately that we mustn't judge all Muslims by the actions of a few, yet are also completely okay with the idea that every Christian's opinion on Islam is suspect because of some bad things done by other Christians centuries ago, I'm going to call out the double-standard. That's why I thought Ghavrel and Legolas were being unfair to Jeordam and why I spoke up.

This message last edited by ßelals Girl on 26/05/2013 at 02:02:18 AM
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Maybe it is time to start treating muslims a little differently? Anonymous2000 - 23/05/2013 03:55:28 AM 3034 Views
Nah, you're just a bigot. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2013 08:21:33 AM 993 Views
Yes, I am against religions that call for violence. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 23/05/2013 12:23:31 PM 894 Views
Wasn't aware you were against Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Shinto... *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2013 12:59:04 PM 953 Views
Where does Christianity call for violence? Jeordam - 23/05/2013 03:55:11 PM 1525 Views
Dueteronomy 13: 1-5 states that you must kill prophets of other religions. Hieshyn - 23/05/2013 07:44:48 PM 1630 Views
The Old Testament is not Christianity. It is where Christianity CAME from. *NM* HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 09:25:12 PM 906 Views
FALSE! Dannymac - 24/05/2013 01:41:50 PM 1639 Views
*sigh* And in fulfilling the "law" he created a new covenant which supplanted the old.. HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 06:09:43 PM 1579 Views
All the death of Christ did was attone for the sins of the world. Hieshyn - 26/05/2013 03:00:26 AM 1817 Views
Sorry, you are wrong. HyogaRott - 28/05/2013 04:17:51 PM 1616 Views
...I can think of a rather larger difference. Starts with J and ends with S. *NM* Ghavrel - 28/05/2013 11:54:28 PM 992 Views
Yeah, but not really, both religions acknowledge his existence, but differ on his role. HyogaRott - 29/05/2013 06:00:03 PM 1623 Views
Net result: All of God's children can enter into Heaven. Hieshyn - 30/05/2013 05:26:20 PM 1839 Views
No. The New Covenant SUPPLEMENTS, not supplants, the Old. Joel - 12/08/2013 02:45:55 AM 1903 Views
Ok....and? Jeordam - 23/05/2013 10:36:55 PM 1488 Views
You asked for an example, I gave one. I'm not here to argue with you. *NM* Hieshyn - 26/05/2013 02:57:27 AM 914 Views
You might want to slap some qualifiers on there *NM* Isaac - 23/05/2013 07:50:43 PM 943 Views
Actually, I very intentionally didn't put any qualifiers on that... Jeordam - 23/05/2013 10:38:24 PM 1553 Views
The Cleansing of the Temple shows a legitimized use of physical force. *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 05:05:55 AM 977 Views
Oh, boo hoo.... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 03:50:18 PM 1601 Views
LOL. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 04:45:50 PM 1535 Views
Violence.... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 05:32:47 PM 1581 Views
Whipping people to drive them away of something is violence. It's not negotiable. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 06:06:42 PM 1412 Views
You are something... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 06:29:03 PM 1472 Views
We've gone from "Where does Christianity call for violence?" to "not all violence is bad." *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 09:09:30 PM 976 Views
To be fair, that is a good journey to make. Joel - 12/08/2013 02:51:17 AM 1519 Views
Also, spanking has been pretty soundly debunked as good parenting. Maybe not a good analogy. *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 06:16:18 PM 946 Views
Because children are more behaved now.... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 06:21:43 PM 1453 Views
I don't favor spanking but the studies 'debunking it' are mostly 'bunk' Isaac - 24/05/2013 10:29:28 PM 1544 Views
Yes. nossy - 24/05/2013 10:42:51 PM 1467 Views
Re: Yes. Isaac - 25/05/2013 12:22:56 AM 1550 Views
Congratulations; you now understand why (or one reason) my posts tend to run long. Joel - 12/08/2013 02:53:24 AM 1746 Views
You know better than that. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 06:52:32 AM 1533 Views
I think you just claimed that my statement as to my opinion is anecdotal evidence of that opinion Isaac - 25/05/2013 09:26:21 AM 1631 Views
I was talking about your reference to your upbringing as relevant to the statistical trend. *NM* Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 09:49:19 AM 886 Views
Yes, but I wasn't claiming it was relevant in that way Isaac - 25/05/2013 10:15:52 AM 1488 Views
... ? *NM* Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 12:58:43 PM 930 Views
I couldn't remember the code for *NM* Isaac - 25/05/2013 07:57:48 PM 879 Views
I wouldn't belong to any other kind of religion. Cannoli - 25/05/2013 01:21:45 AM 1517 Views
And the night was finished with a mob of white men attacking the police in the name of bigotry snoopcester - 23/05/2013 09:51:02 AM 1411 Views
In the name of a religion that preaches violence? Anonymous2000 - 23/05/2013 12:21:59 PM 1583 Views
Islam "preaches" violence just about as much as Christianity does. Nebhead - 23/05/2013 12:46:00 PM 1533 Views
it's actually pretty funny because many people understand Islam to, derivatively, mean peace Fox and Ravens - 23/05/2013 01:44:18 PM 1538 Views
Your argument is logically flawed Tom - 23/05/2013 02:02:33 PM 1620 Views
Re: Your argument is logically flawed Fox and Ravens - 23/05/2013 02:34:22 PM 1637 Views
No, it actaully does not. HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 01:51:51 PM 1594 Views
Maybe they will be, I don't know, KILLED for standing up Nighthawk - 23/05/2013 02:24:59 PM 1436 Views
Exactly HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 03:52:25 PM 1527 Views
Couple of things nossy - 23/05/2013 08:13:57 PM 1864 Views
Unfortunately they are NOT consistant in their messaging... see my link HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 09:30:53 PM 1687 Views
Well, "consistent" doesn't mean "never says things HyogaRott doesn't support." nossy - 23/05/2013 09:46:51 PM 1486 Views
There is a difference between putting forth a good PR spin occasionally and making a stand. HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 01:55:48 AM 1516 Views
Really? Of all the criticisms you could make of Qaradawi, you whine about that? Legolas - 23/05/2013 09:58:50 PM 1536 Views
I think the key point there is that the MCB supported him for a visa in spite of that... Isaac - 23/05/2013 11:05:14 PM 1543 Views
So much for my attempt to bring a little levity to things. Legolas - 24/05/2013 08:07:24 PM 1570 Views
My ability to detect humor and sarcasm in writing is very sporadic Isaac - 24/05/2013 10:28:03 PM 1409 Views
That's a shame. Legolas - 24/05/2013 11:55:37 PM 1387 Views
Re: That's a shame. Isaac - 25/05/2013 02:25:31 AM 1416 Views
Re: That's a shame. Legolas - 25/05/2013 12:17:13 PM 1378 Views
Sure, I'll bite. Legolas - 23/05/2013 09:23:54 PM 1580 Views
Until the "unwashed masses" no longer show up dancing in the streets... HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 09:40:59 PM 1474 Views
I hope you like black and white. nossy - 23/05/2013 09:50:03 PM 1392 Views
Not sure which point you think I missed that I should have responded to... HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 01:52:20 AM 1477 Views
I think I must have confused you. nossy - 24/05/2013 08:46:42 PM 1382 Views
I suppose that depends on which "points" precisely you thought you were making. Legolas - 23/05/2013 09:54:55 PM 1450 Views
Not really HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 02:36:41 AM 1478 Views
Yawn. Bored now. Legolas - 24/05/2013 08:18:27 PM 1429 Views
whatever *NM* HyogaRott - 28/05/2013 04:18:56 PM 827 Views
Do "unwashed masses" publicly APOLOGIZING for terrorism count? Joel - 12/08/2013 03:04:56 AM 1726 Views
Re: No, it actaully does not. Stephen - 24/05/2013 02:29:04 AM 1592 Views
Now let's not start with bullshit here Tom - 23/05/2013 01:54:48 PM 1813 Views
Tom, this is a rare occurance when we agree. HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 03:59:49 PM 1399 Views
That may be so, but the response was addressed to Ben. Tom - 23/05/2013 04:13:47 PM 1508 Views
Oops, my bad messed up reading the discussion tree... HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 06:15:34 PM 1477 Views
Excellent post - anyone that thinks all religions are the same is a complete moron. Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:32:26 AM 1639 Views
I don't approve of a great deal of popular Islamic thought. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 05:13:51 AM 1668 Views
My thoughts exactly. *NM* ironclad - 24/05/2013 09:13:18 AM 835 Views
I agree. *NM* Stephen - 24/05/2013 12:05:46 PM 897 Views
Do you think that it will truly happen? Jeordam - 24/05/2013 05:47:50 PM 1585 Views
Might have something to do with colonialists ruining everything they can get their hands on. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 06:09:13 PM 1496 Views
The first step on the road to recovery is aknowledging your responsibility for where you are and do HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 06:22:42 PM 1471 Views
Oh, so its our fault... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 06:38:14 PM 1458 Views
It's always our fault *NM* ßelals Girl - 24/05/2013 07:40:24 PM 1023 Views
In general, I agree nossy - 24/05/2013 09:01:53 PM 1623 Views
That word "our" is interesting, don't you think? Legolas - 24/05/2013 09:09:24 PM 1499 Views
That was beautiful. *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 09:12:09 PM 945 Views
No, Ghavrel was doing that ßelals Girl - 25/05/2013 12:03:09 AM 1554 Views
I'm sure we all do it, that's kind of the point. Legolas - 25/05/2013 12:26:25 AM 1384 Views
but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. ßelals Girl - 25/05/2013 02:20:21 AM 1601 Views
Exactly. Tom - 25/05/2013 06:26:57 AM 1536 Views
Hyperbole? nossy - 25/05/2013 09:57:56 PM 1381 Views
Has anyone ever told you that? Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:33:32 PM 1643 Views
No, I really don't think so. Legolas - 25/05/2013 11:18:05 AM 1445 Views
*bashes face against keyboard in frustration* ßelals Girl - 25/05/2013 09:28:58 PM 1400 Views
Perhaps I should bow out and let Ghavrel speak for himself, then. Legolas - 25/05/2013 09:53:28 PM 1565 Views
It's accurate. *NM* Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:25:04 PM 911 Views
Re: but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. nossy - 25/05/2013 09:49:48 PM 1469 Views
Re: but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 12:48:45 AM 1578 Views
Hm nossy - 26/05/2013 10:10:49 AM 1532 Views
Also, yeah. Historically oppressive groups aren't equal to historically oppressed groups. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:31:58 PM 1543 Views
Too simplistic AND a blatant justification for double standards I thought you didn't have ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 01:02:07 AM 1489 Views
That's not racism. Racism requires systematic oppression. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 01:14:08 AM 894 Views
No ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 01:57:11 AM 1549 Views
Where whitey firmly belongs, in no small part because of posts like that. Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 02:00:59 AM 1495 Views
Lulz, you're claiming every member of a group deserves something because of what I said? ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 02:11:36 AM 1486 Views
And now you know how Muslims feel. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 03:48:33 AM 941 Views
I already knew ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 04:02:02 AM 1425 Views
Just about every group has historically oppressed and BEEN oppressed at some time. Joel - 12/08/2013 04:00:54 AM 1563 Views
No. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:28:24 PM 1459 Views
Oh, I don't think he's talking about past "colonialism" only. Tom - 25/05/2013 06:18:11 AM 1491 Views
Possibly. Some people do, to be sure, and there is some truth in that view. Legolas - 25/05/2013 11:27:36 AM 1375 Views
What a load of bullshit. Tom - 25/05/2013 06:14:02 AM 1464 Views
I don't think you can reasonably claim to separate Salafi thought from the geopolitics of the time. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:23:03 PM 1496 Views
This is why I want to get the HELL out of there. Joel - 12/08/2013 04:16:39 AM 1613 Views
The difference with Islam is they lost the empire game but they were conquers random thoughts - 27/05/2013 12:42:05 AM 1591 Views
I'm gonna have to disagree with some of that. Legolas - 27/05/2013 07:06:53 PM 1443 Views
Yes it was very complex and the Crusaders were not saints (even the sainted ones) random thoughts - 29/05/2013 04:15:57 AM 1548 Views
Fair enough on all counts, then. *NM* Legolas - 29/05/2013 07:37:34 PM 870 Views
No, it had a bunch of opportunistic brown folks systematically dismantling it for centuries. Joel - 12/08/2013 03:43:00 AM 1504 Views
Some of my ancestors lived and caved and bashed each over the heads with rocks random thoughts - 26/05/2013 04:38:56 PM 1490 Views
Well yes. nossy - 26/05/2013 05:08:08 PM 1433 Views
I would prefer to say that random thoughts - 27/05/2013 01:26:57 AM 1636 Views
Of course you would. nossy - 27/05/2013 10:19:46 AM 1546 Views
I in no way support profiling people based on race or religion random thoughts - 29/05/2013 04:11:01 AM 1642 Views
Ok. nossy - 29/05/2013 08:54:34 PM 1639 Views
I think about the evolution of Western religion a lot. Joel - 12/08/2013 03:23:37 AM 1872 Views
There has been 14,000+ terrorist actions in the name of Islam since 9/11. Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:30:30 AM 1695 Views
That isn't a grown up answer. snoopcester - 23/05/2013 04:35:16 PM 1554 Views
Re: In the name of a religion that preaches violence? ßelals Girl - 23/05/2013 07:28:42 PM 1535 Views
His head will only be chopped off is he draws or insults Muhammad! *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:34:21 AM 929 Views
What does he have to do to get on TV? *NM* ßelals Girl - 24/05/2013 07:45:53 PM 864 Views
Statistically snoopcester - 24/05/2013 10:22:29 AM 1598 Views
What kind of horrifying bugs to you guys HAVE over there??? ßelals Girl - 24/05/2013 02:13:23 PM 1588 Views
Hardly any snoopcester - 24/05/2013 02:16:46 PM 1711 Views
Your solution is profiling...because it's time to *stop* thinking all folks are the same? *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 23/05/2013 02:36:32 PM 832 Views
I don't think we've ever encouraged people to think all folks are the same Isaac - 23/05/2013 07:29:54 PM 1401 Views
"Perhaps it's time to stop thinking all folks are the same?" ~A2k Sareitha Sedai - 23/05/2013 07:49:12 PM 1392 Views
I think he's pointing to the encuragement of willful blindedness with that remark Isaac - 23/05/2013 08:15:55 PM 1455 Views
I think probably not. nossy - 23/05/2013 07:57:53 PM 1493 Views
See Tom's post above for the facts..... *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:36:18 AM 856 Views
That your original post was absurd? Thank you, but I got that on my own. *NM* nossy - 24/05/2013 09:09:21 PM 843 Views
It shows what a silly little fool you are, but that's your choice. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 09:19:04 PM 851 Views
Hey man, you're the one who told me Tom's post had the facts. nossy - 24/05/2013 09:20:53 PM 1429 Views
It means exactly what I said. He did a great job! *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 09:23:44 PM 889 Views
Yes, he did. nossy - 24/05/2013 09:30:42 PM 1457 Views
Also, don't tell him I said I take him seriously. *NM* nossy - 24/05/2013 09:34:59 PM 919 Views
But wouldn't religion-based profile activities... Jeordam - 23/05/2013 10:54:33 PM 1396 Views
My brain is slow right now, but I think I completely agree. nossy - 23/05/2013 11:00:31 PM 1520 Views
You mean like this? Larry - 24/05/2013 08:15:16 PM 1610 Views
Sorry bu the comparison isn't valid random thoughts - 25/05/2013 09:50:34 PM 1441 Views
+1 - Larry is an honest guy and will realize his error. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 25/05/2013 10:53:14 PM 874 Views
Numbers alone do not change the validity of such Larry - 25/05/2013 11:15:17 PM 1497 Views
Yes it does. Anonymous2000 - 26/05/2013 12:23:27 AM 1496 Views
*sigh* Larry - 26/05/2013 12:46:49 AM 1363 Views
I think asking most Americans for recognition of a non-binary political paradigm is a bit much. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 01:16:30 AM 888 Views
no liberalisn is sane and well thought in comparison random thoughts - 26/05/2013 04:04:39 PM 1412 Views
no but they do tell a story random thoughts - 26/05/2013 04:27:26 PM 1327 Views
UPDATE - Cleric/Teacher of one of the murderers praises him for "courage". Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 09:22:24 PM 1503 Views
Do you have a functional link? *NM* Stephen - 25/05/2013 12:19:01 AM 894 Views
The link works for me (Yahoo news) - here is the text. Anonymous2000 - 25/05/2013 02:05:41 AM 1682 Views
Re: Maybe it is time to start treating muslims a little differently? dart_board - 27/05/2013 02:28:31 PM 2225 Views
Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. nossy - 27/05/2013 03:22:41 PM 1562 Views
Just as a little aside Tom - 28/05/2013 12:51:48 AM 1429 Views
Ever helpful. nossy - 28/05/2013 10:23:12 PM 1642 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. dart_board - 28/05/2013 04:56:55 PM 2207 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. nossy - 28/05/2013 10:18:40 PM 1608 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. dart_board - 29/05/2013 08:57:17 PM 2182 Views
I'm having warm feelings. nossy - 29/05/2013 09:38:45 PM 1583 Views
Re: I'm having warm feelings. dart_board - 30/05/2013 12:46:57 AM 2000 Views
"Who else? Major League Baseball. " Joel - 12/08/2013 04:34:48 AM 1820 Views
I can't believe I missed this thread. *NM* Dan - 01/06/2013 10:08:08 AM 1189 Views
How much did you miss it, really? Joel - 12/08/2013 04:38:21 AM 1529 Views
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