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It's tied to the Copernican Principle Isaac Send a noteboard - 28/07/2013 05:09:58 AM

View original postAnyway, forgive my layman's question here, but was there a particular reason everyone assumed the original idea-that both the universe and number of stars are infinite and that the stars are evenly spaced-HAD to be true? It seems like the problem is only a problem if you assume that has to be the case. Couldn't it just as easily be that the universe is infinite but the number of stars in it is finite, or that the stars are not evenly spread out? Why didn't they simply re-examine the underlying premise when this particular paradox reared its ugly head instead of assuming it HAD to be true and working with that?

Copernicus's big thing, beyond the specific physical concept, was that it led to the philosophical concept named for him, essentially the mediocrity principle, that one should generally assume most places are more or a less alike. It's one of the key assumptions of modern physics, essentially that if you zoom out far enough everything looks the same and the same rules apply everywhere. So the stars should be evenly spaced, you'll find structure, like the Local Fluff of stars or our Galaxy, or even some truly massive things like Sloan Great Wall, but if you zoom out far enough it should be a homogeneous blob. This is an assumption rather than a provable fact, but the evidence has tended to back it as time rolls on with most of the exceptions turning out not to be.

Now an infinite Universe with a finite number of stars is a different problem. In such a scenario those finite stars either have to be in a finite volume, rendering the rest of that universe irrelevant and weird, or effectively making one star per universe. A finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, as Douglas Adams said. X/∞ = 0 for any finite X. 1/∞=0, 2/∞=0, and 999,999,999,999/∞=0.

Now why that had to be the case, and I probably glossed over it, has to do with gravity, which like brightness is an inverse-square thing.Newton was saying all objects exert force onto each other and that that force gets weaker as the grow apart, but never dies off, very much like brightness and what causes the Olber Paradox. Picture two objects, left alone they exert force on each other, no matter how far away, and begin to pull closer and closer. In time they run into each other.

Now picture 3 objects, all in a line.

. . .

The middle one is being tugged by each other equally and won't move. But that system isn't static or 'steady state', because the two end pieces are both pulling on each other and so is the middle. Those two edge stars will begin approaching the middle one.

However If I made a really long Straight Chain of stars, this process of them collapsing would be a lot slower.

...............................................................

The stars near the middle are being pulled by the edge stars about the same in each direction and the far stars are barely getting pulled on at all, but they'd still collapse eventually. If this chain was infinitely long each star would have an infinite number of stars to left and right and be pulled each way evenly. They'd never move, a infinite chain of stars would be steady state. The 2D version, an infinite plane, has the same effect. Ditto a 3D version, an infinite Universe. Only when it is infinite, and homogeneous at large scale, is a steady state solution possible. Otherwise a pre-Hubble Universe begins collapsing as soon as formed and to even exist requires someone wave a magic wand to put them all there.


View original postAgain, this is just my uneducated self asking a question that I'm sure has a good answer, but I'm not physics-savvy enough to figure out, so please be gentle

It was a good question, hopefully I gave a good answer

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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Bored and irritated rumination on Olber's Paradox - 28/07/2013 03:21:37 AM 704 Views
I initially read that as "urinated." - 28/07/2013 04:17:47 AM 435 Views
It's tied to the Copernican Principle - 28/07/2013 05:09:58 AM 500 Views
That makes sense. Thanks, Issac! *NM* - 28/07/2013 03:54:54 PM 211 Views
Expansion's a bitch, innit? *NM* - 28/07/2013 04:37:26 AM 227 Views
I'm not saying it's aliens ... - 28/07/2013 06:03:25 AM 508 Views
Re: I'm not saying it's aliens ... - 28/07/2013 10:27:54 PM 1000 Views
Well - 28/07/2013 04:49:06 PM 567 Views
Re: Well - 28/07/2013 10:28:22 PM 597 Views
I always wonder about the magic solution to fix the math - 29/07/2013 01:30:23 PM 405 Views
Sure, that's basically what Dark Energy is - 29/07/2013 07:30:00 PM 448 Views
Interesting Read - 30/07/2013 02:24:31 AM 390 Views
Re: Interesting Read - 30/07/2013 04:19:34 AM 401 Views
Fair enough - 30/07/2013 12:15:15 PM 434 Views
What if the universe is more like a sea urchin? - 30/07/2013 04:04:56 PM 458 Views
Re: What if the universe is more like a sea urchin? - 30/07/2013 11:04:49 PM 448 Views

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