Re: AD&D cannot avoid one-sided encounters without restricting epic characters to epic encounters.
Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 24/09/2012 07:03:39 AM
That actually makes it worse, because the only way to prevent such unbalanced encounters is to effectively say, "after characters hit 10th level they only encounter NPCs that are level 8+." That is even more absurd than letting them slaughter 1st level NPCs en masse.
Actually, it just means that such encounters are unchallenging. I don't see how that's worse. As you get better at your adventuring gig, you are no longer in danger from what you would have considered threats in your days as a rookie. Likewise, things that can threaten a more advanced party are way beyond a novice's ability to handle. This is perfectly rational.
In fact, I have heard it alleged that AD&D 4th ed. is little more than a computer "RPG" with pen and paper, and my admittedly limited experience with it corroborates that: The range of character action is surprisingly (and for any legitimate roleplaying, appallingly) limited, particularly given that the specific acts are quite complex and diverse.
Yeah, 4th Edition is downright terrible as written, I just love it because its core rules form a very solid and adaptable skeleton. But if you're not willing to build up your own system almost from scratch, I can't recommend it to anybody.
D&D Editions have been weird to me. I started with AD&D, which has a stupidly complex and arbitrary rules system that I never want to use again, but it definitely had the best world- and campaign-building material of any D&D setting I've played (and really, every sidebook after 2nd Edition is worthless.) And on the other end of the spectrum, 4th Edition has really clear and elegant rules for the blandest RPG I've ever played. But I'm better at homebrewing the fluff than at homebrewing core rules, so at least I can do something with 4th Ed. I wouldn't even know where to begin in 2nd Ed.
I suspect your GM has been letting you get away with (fictional) murder, possibly because s/he thinks it "roleplaying." A hack 'n slash party in a hack 'n slash systems is bad, but a roleplaying party with a hack 'n slash GM is worse, because they spend all their time fighting whether they like it or not. They also quickly discover their characters live in "Dungeon World," where the few villages exist only to provide adventure seeds leading to (supposedly) abandoned castle/temple/crypts.
Clearly you misunderstand. You claimed that D&D characters were 'nigh-omnipotent demigods' and I pointed out that I've been killing them since forever. Barring the possibility of player-killing, this pretty heavily implies that I am the DM. And everything you have written after that is also wrong.
Yeah, Greywolf is nasty unless you have a large party and/or more fighters than just you and Minsc. I counted it out once and he has something like 90+ HP, which is just ridiculous for the level of the party at that point, especially since it requires a level that gives him pretty good saves.
I use Entangling Roots and just wail on him with ranged weapons.
The Cloakwood and Iron Throne fights were kind of like a combination of that though, with a couple nasty fighters AND spellcasters. After my first run through they were much easier, because I had been around the block enough to stock up on poison arrows before fighting mages. Poison makes everything easier, because the high rate of fire for specced characters combined with the high AC of mages mean they just go "urk!" every round till they die, without ever getting off a spell, allowing me to double team the fighters with the rest of the party. Clerics can be tricky, because they have decent armor, but an early backstab prevents them casting long enough for me to poison the mages and turn my bows on them.
I don't ever recall being challenged much in Cloakwood, unless I activated the traps in Davaeorn's chamber that summoned the Helmed Horrors while fighting him. The Iron Throne fight nuked me the first time I encountered them, but the same could be said about a ton of fights. Rahvin's party at the end shoots exploding arrows at you that can instantly wipe out all your mages, for example. The Sarevok fight would probably be hard if being the final confrontation didn't give me the luxury of spamming out every item I've accumulated over the course of the game. The Tanar'ri demon in Ulgoth's Beard is devastating until you figure to use a Potion of Mirrored Eyes. And so on.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter
Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
~Master Splinter
Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
Baldurs Gate Enhanced Edition: Edit 2 with added video & launch delay
07/09/2012 09:48:16 PM
- 2825 Views
!!!!!
07/09/2012 10:49:47 PM
- 1447 Views
I played the hell out of BG2, but only played BG1 once
08/09/2012 06:07:15 AM
- 1539 Views
BGI is a lot more fun because a lot more challenging, IMHO.
08/09/2012 02:33:17 PM
- 1416 Views
*revelation*
08/09/2012 05:45:28 PM
- 1372 Views
You need not be behind them to assassinate (the high level thief ability.)
08/09/2012 06:04:31 PM
- 1405 Views
ahh yes i remember, every hit is a backstab for 30 seconds or something.
08/09/2012 07:07:12 PM
- 1472 Views
Right; it is pretty much an instakill, considering the multipliers at the level it becomes available
08/09/2012 09:03:47 PM
- 1372 Views
fireballs are so epic in BG1
08/09/2012 05:41:34 PM
- 1409 Views
I disagree about it being the only good third level spell;lighting bolt and haste are also excellent
08/09/2012 06:26:08 PM
- 1539 Views
Yeah, I loved Lightning Bolt.
08/09/2012 06:44:59 PM
- 1345 Views
it was such a liability
08/09/2012 07:11:36 PM
- 1401 Views
Bouncing is what makes lightning bolts great, because you get to hit people more than once.
08/09/2012 08:59:10 PM
- 1356 Views
There's an unfortunate Wizard in the Firewine Bridge Ruins...
09/09/2012 12:58:18 AM
- 1436 Views
Oops.
09/09/2012 01:43:23 AM
- 1423 Views

that's why BG1 was so awesome. exploration=rewards
09/09/2012 09:09:22 AM
- 1388 Views
For sure; it made additional playthroughs fun even after beating the game.
09/09/2012 04:48:40 PM
- 1487 Views
Also, FB and Skull Trap are also almost interchangeable until 10th level, but ST damage is uncapped.
09/09/2012 02:02:17 AM
- 1916 Views
Multi-player was actually pretty simple if you just used it to create your whole party.
08/09/2012 02:19:35 PM
- 1398 Views
well yeah, because there was no connection to figure out
08/09/2012 06:59:49 PM
- 1495 Views
Right; I was never a big multiplayer fan anyway, but customized parties were nice
08/09/2012 08:53:45 PM
- 1500 Views
Where's the fun in having a customized party and losing all the character interaction, though?
09/09/2012 04:03:10 PM
- 1491 Views
I dislike most of the BG NPCs anyway, so I do not much feel the lack.
09/09/2012 04:45:12 PM
- 1596 Views
Re: I dislike most of the BG NPCs anyway, so I do not much feel the lack.
10/09/2012 01:23:44 PM
- 1422 Views
Suggestion since you're not using the NPCs anyway...
15/09/2012 11:34:28 PM
- 1499 Views
That is a good thought; I never played IWD.
16/09/2012 03:31:01 AM
- 1385 Views
Where did you think I just got it?
16/09/2012 04:39:43 PM
- 1338 Views

How would I know you just got a game released in the late nineties?
17/09/2012 06:57:19 PM
- 1334 Views

Re: How would I know you just got a game released in the late nineties?
17/09/2012 11:08:09 PM
- 1498 Views

I still like GURPS' character points best.
17/09/2012 11:40:12 PM
- 1382 Views
Heh, I'm not surprised.
18/09/2012 01:47:55 AM
- 1380 Views
If you want to avoid hyperspecialization, avoid classes.
18/09/2012 07:36:43 AM
- 1606 Views
I've never played GURPS, so I don't know how its system works.
18/09/2012 03:32:21 PM
- 1469 Views
I recommend it, but it is a bear to run.
19/09/2012 03:37:19 AM
- 1814 Views
Re: I recommend it, but it is a bear to run.
19/09/2012 08:35:24 AM
- 1403 Views
It is the difference between "what if...?" and "whatever...."
19/09/2012 10:58:31 PM
- 1499 Views
Re: It is the difference between "what if...?" and "whatever...."
20/09/2012 12:31:10 AM
- 1388 Views
AD&D cannot avoid one-sided encounters without restricting epic characters to epic encounters.
24/09/2012 05:53:39 AM
- 1707 Views
Re: AD&D cannot avoid one-sided encounters without restricting epic characters to epic encounters.
24/09/2012 07:03:39 AM
- 1380 Views
Things are a little different if you are the GM, yes.
24/09/2012 08:33:23 AM
- 1634 Views
Re: Things are a little different if you are the GM, yes.
24/09/2012 07:24:51 PM
- 1496 Views
My point is no one should be at any level.
25/09/2012 01:23:21 AM
- 1629 Views
Re: My point is no one should be at any level.
25/09/2012 03:41:42 AM
- 1633 Views
I know no more about AD&D 3rd Ed. than I retain from skimming the book a few times in a store.
25/09/2012 05:16:49 AM
- 1429 Views
Re: I know no more about AD&D 3rd Ed. than I retain from skimming the book a few times in a store.
25/09/2012 06:05:39 PM
- 1574 Views
Re: [Insert relevant subject line here.]
26/09/2012 08:12:05 AM
- 1578 Views
Re: [Insert relevant subject line here.]
26/09/2012 05:48:34 PM
- 1415 Views
Re: [Insert relevant subject line here.]
27/09/2012 10:26:16 AM
- 2053 Views
Re: [Insert relevant subject line here.]
27/09/2012 05:23:13 PM
- 1365 Views
I did not realize how awful classes were until liberated from them.
28/09/2012 12:49:14 AM
- 1509 Views
Re: Things are a little different if you are the GM, yes.
24/09/2012 08:45:05 PM
- 1350 Views
I thought Yrrth a perfectly fine game world; obviously anything less generic requires some effort.
25/09/2012 12:14:09 AM
- 1421 Views
GURPS and TV Tropes are a natural fit, so I will throw in a link to their page on it.
19/09/2012 03:50:37 AM
- 1496 Views
I can't speak for IWD I, but II is okay on the story front so far.
18/09/2012 06:36:16 PM
- 1324 Views
I've still only played about 4 hours of BG1
08/09/2012 03:59:49 PM
- 1440 Views
If you have not yet, you should look into the Weidu mods.
08/09/2012 06:12:20 PM
- 1314 Views
But what's the point in playing the game if you don't use the NPCs?
08/09/2012 06:47:38 PM
- 1343 Views
Not having a bunch of potentially useful but AI ruined incompetents constantly fumbling.
08/09/2012 08:55:53 PM
- 1470 Views
Yeah, but optimising the whole group sounds ridiculously easy.
09/09/2012 01:03:51 AM
- 1328 Views
Well, there are always mods for that.
09/09/2012 01:37:42 AM
- 1280 Views
For talking to pretty much anyone, really.
09/09/2012 03:20:29 AM
- 1375 Views
True.
09/09/2012 03:46:24 AM
- 1392 Views
Well, I usually don't have thieves in my party.
09/09/2012 04:56:21 AM
- 1333 Views
there wasn't a good enough thief option in bg2/ToB
09/09/2012 09:15:21 AM
- 1272 Views
I noticed that also; another argument for creating a party via MP even if you move it back to SP.
09/09/2012 11:45:12 PM
- 1384 Views
Just how many thieves do you even need?
10/09/2012 06:22:58 PM
- 1388 Views
You can get by with half a thief, yeah, but it forces you to forego maxing out some thief abilities.
10/09/2012 06:47:48 PM
- 1340 Views
Any suggested parties for beginners? *NM*
10/09/2012 01:13:38 AM
- 750 Views
I am completely stoked about it.
10/09/2012 07:07:09 PM
- 1445 Views
TotSC made BGI a LOT more fun.
10/09/2012 07:46:03 PM
- 1284 Views
all the kits/races/dual wielding etc will be available in bgee
11/09/2012 09:02:35 AM
- 1318 Views
Ah; nice.
11/09/2012 06:57:14 PM
- 1435 Views
i'm not sure they were even state of the art at the time
12/09/2012 09:26:05 AM
- 1337 Views
Remember, BGI was released only about two years after Doom.
13/09/2012 12:05:11 AM
- 1391 Views
If by "two" you mean "five," then yes. DOOM was released in 1993.
13/09/2012 03:22:58 PM
- 1351 Views
Ah, 1998. The golden year. Ocarina of Time. Starcraft. Half-Life. *NM*
13/09/2012 04:16:21 PM
- 781 Views
That just reminds me of how sad it is that StarCraft died this year
. *NM*
13/09/2012 11:55:28 PM
- 743 Views

Fair enough; I was thinking of Doom in terms of when I started playing it and Doom II (1995.)
14/09/2012 03:56:50 PM
- 1453 Views
I don't mind the graphics in it
12/09/2012 04:38:47 PM
- 1390 Views
Good, me neither, but I have heard others criticize them.
12/09/2012 11:51:16 PM
- 1277 Views
I used the PS3 web browser as my primary browser for about 3 months
13/09/2012 01:13:22 PM
- 1304 Views
*nods* I suspected as much, but had no first hand experience confirming it.
14/09/2012 04:03:15 PM
- 1371 Views
I'm going to ask this here rather than start a new topic as its somewhat related.
10/09/2012 07:42:32 PM
- 1342 Views
And it now has been delayed till Nov
*NM*
15/09/2012 03:52:41 AM
- 731 Views

On another note, shame on all of you for not telling me Jon Irenicus is Ra's Al Ghul
15/09/2012 04:19:21 AM
- 1379 Views