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The Saudi royals like us, the people hate us. The Iranian people like us, the Ayatollah hates us. Tom Send a noteboard - 24/05/2017 02:56:57 AM

Our foreign policy needs to take into account these realities. Because the Iranian government is fairly uniformly anti-American, we need to undermine it and try to reach out to people with a stake in changing it.

To the contrary, we need to support the royal family because if they were to fall, the result would probably look a lot like ISIS with a hell of a lot more oil fields under their control (and that would be probably one of the only things that would cause the oil price to spike back to 2007 levels).

While the royals were "aware" of extremism and its potential consequences for quite some time, they seemed to think that they could deflect it for a long time. In the 1980s they sent people to fight the atheist USSR in Afghanistan. In the 1990s Bosnia and Chechnya were popular destinations to send people to keep them from attacking the Kingdom.

When 9/11 happened, I do believe that the King realized that they needed to make changes, but the problem was that by that point an entire generation had been radicalized. Private individuals with massive accumulations of wealth were funding ultraconservative groups, and by focusing on al Qaeda for a while, the Kingdom was intentionally ignoring the Wahhabi ideology that was underpinning everything.

Not only has Saudi Arabia's position become more precarious due to unrest (much of it in Shia areas), but Western governments are less and less inclined to defend the Kingdom with the US pumping out oil at a historically high level and undermining OPEC. The rise of Iran (a natural consequence of the invasion of Iraq) has also made the Saudis extremely nervous, not only because of their own Shia populations, but the Shias in neighboring countries like Yemen, Qatar, Bahrain and Iraq. Not only that, but the ISIS project is now a complete failure (though I'm sort of surprised - ISIS intentionally went out of its way to say it wanted to fight the "near enemy" and we could have just let them fight it out for 10-15 years).

Their money is running out, their friends' patience has worn thin, their enemies are multiplying within and without, and so finally they have started taking action. Note the Mutawwa no longer have the authority to chase, stop, or arrest people or demand or take ID. Foreign women are no longer required to wear hijab. Women will likely have the right to drive very soon.

You may want to take a cheap shot at President Trump for dancing with the guys with swords for about 15 seconds, but I think he has the ability to actually force some change because people know he is going to act on his promises (perhaps not with an incredible amount of specificity or accuracy, but generally and with tenacity).

Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.

ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius

Ummaka qinnassa nīk!

*MySmiley*
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Terrible thing in Manchester last night. - 23/05/2017 03:34:11 PM 996 Views
Pogroms - 23/05/2017 04:29:06 PM 416 Views
You can't stop psychos from doing psychopathic things. - 23/05/2017 05:40:15 PM 376 Views
I'm not sure i understand. - 23/05/2017 05:54:33 PM 395 Views
That's a quite obtuse answer - 23/05/2017 08:34:20 PM 406 Views
Hiding? - 23/05/2017 08:58:11 PM 442 Views
What do you mean, exactly, by "stop making ourselves targets" then? - 23/05/2017 09:47:43 PM 381 Views
First off, we agree completely on one thing - 23/05/2017 10:51:22 PM 418 Views
What hasn't been consistent about our foreign policy in that region? - 23/05/2017 11:13:57 PM 454 Views
I thought it was obvious that I didn't mean consistently shit. - 23/05/2017 11:36:58 PM 430 Views
It's always about us, then, isn't it? - 24/05/2017 02:34:52 AM 398 Views
For me, it is. - 24/05/2017 07:49:03 AM 399 Views
Don't forget getting an education if you are female *NM* - 23/05/2017 09:38:26 PM 230 Views
They might have a point with that one. I haven't seen much value from it. - 23/05/2017 09:53:19 PM 350 Views
You are going to get rocks thrown at you *NM* - 23/05/2017 10:29:45 PM 202 Views
There aren't many left who would bother. *NM* - 23/05/2017 10:52:14 PM 221 Views
Me and the jihadis - victory by sticking around! *NM* - 24/05/2017 11:11:35 AM 221 Views
There are lots of things we can do. There are few we will do. - 23/05/2017 08:46:50 PM 386 Views
Aren't there significant differences between the Salafis and the Islamic State? - 23/05/2017 08:58:35 PM 373 Views
All extremists are Salafis, not every Salafi is an extremist - 23/05/2017 09:54:26 PM 484 Views
Yeah, I get that. - 23/05/2017 10:12:45 PM 406 Views
I was going to ask when I saw your post above... - 23/05/2017 11:26:33 PM 372 Views
The Saudi royals like us, the people hate us. The Iranian people like us, the Ayatollah hates us. - 24/05/2017 02:56:57 AM 420 Views
Picking a concert that would be mostly teenage girls makes it extra disgusting *NM* - 23/05/2017 09:37:25 PM 220 Views
Not really. It's a logical extension of the whole rationale. - 23/05/2017 09:50:30 PM 430 Views
He said 'extra disgusting'. Not 'less logical'. *NM* - 23/05/2017 10:29:21 PM 239 Views
I am not sure logic applies to the issue. - 23/05/2017 10:41:32 PM 352 Views
I can see that - 24/05/2017 11:47:59 AM 403 Views
It makes me wonder about the attacker - 23/05/2017 11:00:40 PM 397 Views
I wonder about what these people sea in a good who wants this kind of thing - 24/05/2017 05:58:25 PM 383 Views
It really does. That shit makes the blood boil. *NM* - 24/05/2017 05:23:33 PM 242 Views
Isis Shmisis. Daesh is just the end result of the radicalization of many Muslims. - 23/05/2017 11:58:42 PM 373 Views
Blaming the Ottomans, while largely correct, is less satisfying to them. - 24/05/2017 03:21:14 AM 408 Views
There's lots of nationalist feeling, surely. - 24/05/2017 06:48:59 PM 391 Views
Your errors are legion here. - 24/05/2017 10:03:53 PM 379 Views
Really? I see precisely one point which, according to you, is a factual error. - 26/05/2017 11:41:00 PM 408 Views
You're not looking very hard, then - 27/05/2017 03:23:36 PM 467 Views
At this point we're just arguing about perspective, seems to me. - 28/05/2017 07:11:55 PM 526 Views
No, I think that you're missing the point - 28/05/2017 09:49:34 PM 302 Views
Alright, I did miss that point. - 29/05/2017 07:33:36 PM 359 Views
You can't do anything - 24/05/2017 05:00:31 PM 357 Views
Be honest. We both know I am a major hardass and you like it. *NM* - 24/05/2017 05:19:21 PM 198 Views
Oh I do - 25/05/2017 10:27:08 AM 450 Views
My opinion? We (USA) should either bomb ISIS into oblivion or back off and let them kill each other *NM* - 24/05/2017 05:38:37 PM 247 Views
When I see those girl's faces and think about how easily it could be my 11 year old daughter - 24/05/2017 05:53:01 PM 405 Views
I would prefer to annihilate them, if possible, without boots on the ground. - 24/05/2017 06:03:49 PM 358 Views
I admit my reaction is as much emotional as rational but boots may be needed - 24/05/2017 06:37:51 PM 454 Views
Are you serious? - 28/05/2017 09:56:07 PM 312 Views
There is no tool for not allowing citizens back in the country - 29/05/2017 10:11:42 PM 335 Views
Re: There is no tool for not allowing citizens back in the country *NM* - 29/05/2017 10:11:52 PM 222 Views
Wow, talk about mission creep hitting after just one (incoherent) message - 30/05/2017 03:07:46 PM 571 Views
Speak for yourself. - 30/05/2017 06:57:16 PM 394 Views
You have thus argued for the death of education. - 31/05/2017 02:51:11 PM 389 Views
No, I've argued for substance over form. - 31/05/2017 07:07:28 PM 387 Views
Well, fuck you too then - 02/06/2017 01:43:47 AM 558 Views
Tom, he's dyslexic. Stop being a dick. - 02/06/2017 09:37:27 AM 333 Views
I'm such a n00b *NM* - 24/05/2017 06:03:50 PM 213 Views

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