View original postIt's not about perspective. It's about the fact that this mythical commonality that does not in fact exist is a mask for the complete and utter lack of national identity. We say "Arab World" when a rural Moroccan Berber Sunni has almost nothing in common with a Damascene Alawi. Yet the myth is there, and the myth itself is probably inhibiting any sense of common purpose or shared destiny. It would be as if Spaniards, French and Italians called themselves "Roman" and failed to create unified states as a result (and actually, that pretty much happened in Italy for the longest time, with the predictable consequences).
Except that many of them did create separate states - places like Morocco, Algeria, Oman, etc. have been more or less autonomous or officially independent for many centuries and up to a thousand years. It's one thing if you're talking about Iraq and Syria, or even Saudi Arabia and Jordan, states in which several separate regional identities were combined into one (and I think both friends and enemies would agree that the Palestinian nation is also a rather recent phenomenon, mostly shaped in the first half of the 20th century). But others have a much older national identity, they just have the wider Arab identity in addition to that. Sort of like the relations between the various Spanish-speaking Latin-American countries. Not that that stops them from having minorities which may be in opposition to this national identity.
View original postThe sooner the entire region starts to recognize the realities, the sooner they will form states based on common interest. Aside from the fact that ISIS is a horrendous group, the geographical area that it controlled fell to it quickly for a reason - the Sunni regions of Iraq and Syria had more in common with one another than they did with their "countrymen". The Upper Mesopotamian geographical area has been distinct since they time of the Assyrians and makes a much more logical grouping than Iraq and Syria do. Lower Mesopotamia would be a Shiite state, the mountains of Kurdistan would be a state, and the Levantine coast would be a state.
I can agree with some of that, and certainly the borders of Syria and Iraq and Jordan are pretty arbitrary. I just think you're too black and white about it. Sunnis and Shias have a long history of violent clashes, but so did Catholics and Protestants, once, and in both cases it's often ambiguous whether the religious differences were the actual reason for a war or just a pretext. It doesn't mean that a nation with significant numbers of both is necessarily doomed to failure, it's just a question of political leadership choosing to reconcile, or to divide and conquer. The Kurds could have had their state already at Sevres, and looking at the situation today, it makes sense to give them one, but some of the four nations sharing 'Kurdistan' are or at one point were making decent steps towards a solution involving mere cultural autonomy within the existing borders. To take the most obvious example, Erdogan's Turkey, it's not some kind of historical inevitability that he went back on the warpath and ruined the chances of a lasting peaceful solution for Turkish Kurdistan (in the short term, at least). It's the result of political choices that he and others made, and for which they should be held accountable. Same thing with Assad's and Saddam's divide and conquer tactics in which they played off Sunnites against Shi'ites and Arabs against Kurds in order to maintain their power.
Terrible thing in Manchester last night.
23/05/2017 03:34:11 PM
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You can't stop psychos from doing psychopathic things.
23/05/2017 05:40:15 PM
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That's a quite obtuse answer
23/05/2017 08:34:20 PM
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Hiding?
23/05/2017 08:58:11 PM
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What do you mean, exactly, by "stop making ourselves targets" then?
23/05/2017 09:47:43 PM
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First off, we agree completely on one thing
23/05/2017 10:51:22 PM
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What hasn't been consistent about our foreign policy in that region?
23/05/2017 11:13:57 PM
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I thought it was obvious that I didn't mean consistently shit.
23/05/2017 11:36:58 PM
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Don't forget getting an education if you are female *NM*
23/05/2017 09:38:26 PM
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They might have a point with that one. I haven't seen much value from it.
23/05/2017 09:53:19 PM
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You are going to get rocks thrown at you *NM*
23/05/2017 10:29:45 PM
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There aren't very many ways to stop making ourselves a target for the Islamic State.
23/05/2017 09:04:56 PM
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I am not willing to give up the kill them all options until we give it a better try *NM*
23/05/2017 09:39:38 PM
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All DAESH acts of provocation have the same goal
23/05/2017 06:57:00 PM
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That reasoning only works if you view Daesh as a monolithic entity, though.
23/05/2017 10:02:01 PM
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The so-called lone wolf attacks are often performed by those unable to go to Syria
23/05/2017 10:06:08 PM
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Once again with the monolithic view.
23/05/2017 10:21:20 PM
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Is it possible that rather than me overestimating the depth of devotion...
23/05/2017 10:33:18 PM
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I don't say you overestimate it, no doubt for some that's true. But they're not all the same. *NM*
23/05/2017 11:12:26 PM
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Also, didn't they disavow the whole Dabiq thing when they lost control of the village? *NM*
23/05/2017 10:29:23 PM
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I must have missed that, but that sounds about like what I'd expect. *NM*
23/05/2017 10:31:03 PM
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I mean if that would end it once and for all then we should absolutely do that but...
24/05/2017 05:22:29 PM
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There are lots of things we can do. There are few we will do.
23/05/2017 08:46:50 PM
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Aren't there significant differences between the Salafis and the Islamic State?
23/05/2017 08:58:35 PM
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All extremists are Salafis, not every Salafi is an extremist
23/05/2017 09:54:26 PM
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Yeah, I get that.
23/05/2017 10:12:45 PM
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Advocating non-terrorist Salafism is like advocating sexual abstinence in college
23/05/2017 10:27:22 PM
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I was going to ask when I saw your post above...
23/05/2017 11:26:33 PM
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The Saudi royals like us, the people hate us. The Iranian people like us, the Ayatollah hates us.
24/05/2017 02:56:57 AM
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See this seems like some common sense stuff to me. How do we get politicians to make good on it? *NM*
24/05/2017 05:20:15 PM
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Trump is trying to do some. The 9th Circuit seems to think it can upend all precedent to stop him.
24/05/2017 09:46:30 PM
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Picking a concert that would be mostly teenage girls makes it extra disgusting *NM*
23/05/2017 09:37:25 PM
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Not really. It's a logical extension of the whole rationale.
23/05/2017 09:50:30 PM
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Yes. Also they believe the more outrageous the attack, the sooner the final war will occur. *NM*
23/05/2017 10:08:09 PM
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It makes me wonder about the attacker
23/05/2017 11:00:40 PM
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I wonder about what these people sea in a good who wants this kind of thing
24/05/2017 05:58:25 PM
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Isis Shmisis. Daesh is just the end result of the radicalization of many Muslims.
23/05/2017 11:58:42 PM
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Blaming the Ottomans, while largely correct, is less satisfying to them.
24/05/2017 03:21:14 AM
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Not to mention, the Ottomans are relative latecomers to the Muslims of the region
24/05/2017 11:31:06 AM
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There's lots of nationalist feeling, surely.
24/05/2017 06:48:59 PM
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Your errors are legion here.
24/05/2017 10:03:53 PM
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Really? I see precisely one point which, according to you, is a factual error.
26/05/2017 11:41:00 PM
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You're not looking very hard, then
27/05/2017 03:23:36 PM
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At this point we're just arguing about perspective, seems to me.
28/05/2017 07:11:55 PM
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No, I think that you're missing the point
28/05/2017 09:49:34 PM
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Alright, I did miss that point.
29/05/2017 07:33:36 PM
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Oh, and now, according to the headlines, the son of Libyan immigrants is a "homegrown" terrorist
24/05/2017 11:33:42 AM
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You can't do anything
24/05/2017 05:00:31 PM
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Be honest. We both know I am a major hardass and you like it. *NM*
24/05/2017 05:19:21 PM
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My opinion? We (USA) should either bomb ISIS into oblivion or back off and let them kill each other *NM*
24/05/2017 05:38:37 PM
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When I see those girl's faces and think about how easily it could be my 11 year old daughter
24/05/2017 05:53:01 PM
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I would prefer to annihilate them, if possible, without boots on the ground.
24/05/2017 06:03:49 PM
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I admit my reaction is as much emotional as rational but boots may be needed
24/05/2017 06:37:51 PM
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Are you serious?
28/05/2017 09:56:07 PM
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There is no tool for not allowing citizens back in the country
29/05/2017 10:11:42 PM
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Re: There is no tool for not allowing citizens back in the country *NM*
29/05/2017 10:11:52 PM
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Wow, talk about mission creep hitting after just one (incoherent) message
30/05/2017 03:07:46 PM
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Speak for yourself.
30/05/2017 06:57:16 PM
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You have thus argued for the death of education.
31/05/2017 02:51:11 PM
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No, I've argued for substance over form.
31/05/2017 07:07:28 PM
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Well, fuck you too then
02/06/2017 01:43:47 AM
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