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Re: I think it started to change in the 1980s Ghavrel Send a noteboard - 27/06/2017 09:05:23 PM

There's been such a split that I usually try to make the distinction between "leftists" and "progressives," with the former focusing more on labor issues and the latter focusing more on identity politics. There is of course substantial overlap, but there are a lot of pissed off members of each group who want nothing to do with the other. The vitriol hurled between the Clinton and Sanders camps is a good example of that mechanic at work.


View original postIf you look at the pre-Woodstock/hippie culture in America, you see the phrase "liberal" applied to people in the Democratic Party who were for civil liberties (free speech, free press, etc. ) and who also believed in the New Deal and the idea of the safety net. This was back when the American Civil Liberties Union fought tooth and nail to let the Nazi Party march through Skokie, Illinois, and most of the Left supported the ACLU position as much as they hated the Nazis (1977).

This, unfortunately, seems to be a dying breed. You either get yelled at by scrawny Antifa wannabes for allowing conservatives to walk the streets unmolested or you get labelled a racist for saying college students shouldn't pull fire alarms to interrupt speakers with shitty views.

"We feel safe when we read what we recognise, what does not challenge our way of thinking.... a steady acceptance of pre-arranged patterns leads to the inability to question what we are told."
~Camilla

Ghavrel is Ghavrel is Ghavrel

*MySmiley*

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Case study of the damage liberalism can do - $15 Min Wage Anonymous2000 - 27/06/2017 01:54:54 AM 1460 Views
Seattle is a poor choice for a case study damookster - 27/06/2017 05:31:18 AM 829 Views
Well, sure, but many of those non-entry level jobs are being held by baby boomers. Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 06:09:40 AM 813 Views
That's at least in part because the minimum wage makes automation more cost-effective Cannoli - 27/06/2017 11:04:28 AM 716 Views
Exactly. If you have to pay people $15/hour as a McDonald's cashier, put in the robots instead. Tom - 27/06/2017 07:18:11 PM 784 Views
That is an incredibly silly argument. Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 08:56:09 PM 798 Views
If you assume wages can't go lower... Cannoli - 29/06/2017 04:52:33 AM 815 Views
Many? damookster - 27/06/2017 12:30:39 PM 800 Views
Amen. Tom - 27/06/2017 07:21:47 PM 776 Views
Yes, many. My office is full of them. Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 08:59:55 PM 728 Views
So is life. damookster - 27/06/2017 09:29:01 PM 757 Views
Re: So is life. Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 09:49:21 PM 733 Views
My father worked two jobs his entire working life. damookster - 27/06/2017 09:56:56 PM 761 Views
We have a 40 hour work week for a reason. Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 10:17:15 PM 796 Views
That's a piss-poor analogy damookster - 27/06/2017 10:23:04 PM 747 Views
How is that really relevant, then? Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 11:03:34 PM 711 Views
I am really enjoying this new-fangled "like" feature we have now. *NM* Clover - 28/06/2017 12:13:42 AM 550 Views
*NM* Ghavrel - 28/06/2017 12:25:45 AM 410 Views
Personal choice damookster - 28/06/2017 12:20:47 AM 828 Views
Re: Personal choice Ghavrel - 28/06/2017 12:32:31 AM 774 Views
In theory I agree with your ideas about a living wage, however The Shrike - 28/06/2017 12:16:56 PM 779 Views
Very good questions Tom - 28/06/2017 03:01:02 PM 764 Views
FULLY AUTOMATED LUXURY SPACE COMMUNISM. Ghavrel - 28/06/2017 07:49:59 PM 881 Views
Also, curtailing immigration, like keeping the minimum wage low, really only delays the inevitable. Ghavrel - 29/06/2017 11:05:58 PM 755 Views
damn *NM* damookster - 27/06/2017 09:29:01 PM 484 Views
Just retire already, you luddite! *NM* Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 09:45:46 PM 491 Views
I wish. damookster - 27/06/2017 09:48:02 PM 784 Views
Bad life decisions lead to bad life consequences random thoughts - 28/06/2017 05:44:58 PM 743 Views
You also shouldn't respond to it by letting them die. Ghavrel - 28/06/2017 07:53:10 PM 753 Views
But this same arguement can be flipped by.... Jeordam - 28/06/2017 10:34:25 PM 822 Views
I feel like you're making my arguments for me here. Ghavrel - 28/06/2017 10:51:38 PM 852 Views
an apt comparison damookster - 28/06/2017 11:09:25 PM 717 Views
So everyone who "can't" nossy - 29/06/2017 09:49:41 AM 749 Views
ummm damookster - 29/06/2017 02:06:54 PM 677 Views
I know. And I disagree with you. nossy - 29/06/2017 04:58:45 PM 794 Views
Health care and minimum wage are different discussions damookster - 29/06/2017 05:14:07 PM 768 Views
I think nossy and I are ok with letting lazy people get by... Ghavrel - 29/06/2017 08:11:36 PM 756 Views
Si nossy - 29/06/2017 09:08:03 PM 764 Views
Who said that? damookster - 29/06/2017 09:47:32 PM 829 Views
Who said what? nossy - 29/06/2017 10:32:12 PM 710 Views
There is a huge difference.... Jeordam - 29/06/2017 05:10:05 PM 772 Views
Hyperbole is all well and good for internet memes but it really doesn' advance your argument. random thoughts - 03/07/2017 04:22:59 PM 677 Views
Why does McDonalds keep coming up in this? Cannoli - 29/06/2017 06:53:46 AM 905 Views
Nicely said. Or written. *NM* AgentApple - 29/06/2017 09:30:06 AM 455 Views
All right, so what society without minimum wage do you point to as a model? *NM* Ghavrel - 29/06/2017 09:39:12 AM 482 Views
How about "all the ones we had before the 20th century"? Cannoli - 29/06/2017 10:47:30 PM 881 Views
The ones where hunger and scarcity were widespread? Ghavrel - 29/06/2017 11:04:02 PM 734 Views
So just to put this out there... Jeordam - 29/06/2017 11:12:47 PM 721 Views
Re: So just to put this out there... Ghavrel - 30/06/2017 01:34:03 AM 702 Views
Yes, and me being SUCH a fan of urbanization... Cannoli - 30/06/2017 03:39:51 PM 912 Views
The example for this post was for Seattle, or perhaps King County only. damookster - 29/06/2017 11:49:32 PM 820 Views
"Attract labor"? Minimum wage labor? I believe you mean, violently repell businesses Cannoli - 30/06/2017 03:31:36 PM 793 Views
Like anything else not addressed in the Constitution, it should be up to state and local government damookster - 30/06/2017 05:22:51 PM 790 Views
I for one am entirely unsuprised. Common sense result. *NM* Urza - 27/06/2017 06:23:01 AM 509 Views
Seems like a methodology to identify struggling operations more than one to evaluate... Vodalus - 27/06/2017 10:25:30 AM 746 Views
But the traffic is the WORST. Clover - 28/06/2017 12:47:13 AM 844 Views
You are a Husky? TIL clover is one of the Huskies. Roland00 - 28/06/2017 02:26:46 AM 690 Views
Re: But the traffic is the WORST. Vodalus - 28/06/2017 10:38:54 AM 741 Views
Just to nitpick, Switzerland isn't exactly homogeneous. Legolas - 28/06/2017 10:28:01 PM 789 Views
Don't say "liberalism" - there's nothing liberal about them. Say "Leftism". *NM* Tom - 27/06/2017 05:07:36 PM 408 Views
I was thinking the same. Even in the US, that's a weird context to use that word in. *NM* Legolas - 27/06/2017 05:50:21 PM 441 Views
Most Americans have no idea about the historical context of Liberalism. The Shrike - 27/06/2017 06:03:38 PM 740 Views
But even so, surely even in the US the main connotation is with social progressives, not economic? Legolas - 27/06/2017 06:28:54 PM 755 Views
I think it started to change in the 1980s Tom - 27/06/2017 07:14:26 PM 639 Views
Re: I think it started to change in the 1980s Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 09:05:23 PM 717 Views
Whether or not their views are shitty is a subjective determination Tom - 27/06/2017 11:15:22 PM 747 Views
A decade under conservative deans would fix the situation nicely, I think. Ghavrel - 27/06/2017 11:24:41 PM 699 Views
Yes! I wonder what Dean Wormer from Faber is doing these days... *NM* Tom - 28/06/2017 12:03:46 AM 329 Views
So I've been thinking through this whole minimum wage thing.... Jeordam - 28/06/2017 05:47:26 PM 815 Views
It varies fairly significantly from location to location. MIT has a decent calculator. Ghavrel - 28/06/2017 07:56:41 PM 1258 Views
Re: So I've been thinking through this whole minimum wage thing.... Cannoli - 29/06/2017 05:08:56 AM 799 Views
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