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Not reading comprehension. Thinking comprehension... and it's not on my account entyti Send a noteboard - 09/05/2022 11:04:57 PM

So? I never said the Texas ban was anything other than what it was. When I referenced drawing the line at meiosis, I was indicating the line is arbitrary, and there's lack of consensus across the religion/science divide. I never said that was the line the Texas law was drawing.

That's not quite what happened, and you can look at the thread. You pulled meiosis out of you fourth point of contact, then dismissed the entire anti-abortion stance based on this extreme argument. Like a reverse Motte and Bailey.


Whether you misinterpreted that wilfully or because you failed to understand is beside the point. In either case, you're distracted by rage, performative or otherwise, because the facts of what I said aren't something you can argue with.

Facts? What facts? You do know what a fact is, right? Nevermind, I don't want to make your brain work too hard.


It's not difficult at all. I've spent a considerable part of my research career working on embryonic mice. Embryos and fetuses are not individual lives. There's nothing individual about them till they're delivered. No definition of individual fits. Potential for life is not life.

I feel sorry for you. So pumped with ideological nonsense that you don't understand how to reason through an argument.


I used meiosis as the extreme to which you can take where life begins. I used that as the outer boundary of where some people see life beginning at. Whether you hold to that, or the first detection of a heartbeat, or 15 weeks, there's good scientific evidence to rebut your claim. There's no individual if the division from the mother ends life. At that point, what we have is a division, a part, of the mother. And she is the sole determiner of what happens to that part of her body.

You seem to be under the misapprehension that it's somehow easier to rebut meiosis as the start of life than the other cutoffs used here. It is not. Life doesn't start till the fetus is developed enough to survive on its own.


Actually it's quite easy to rebut meiosis as the beginning point of life. Meiotic cells do not grow into anything once made. They do not consume outside nutrients, divide further, or progress in any way. An egg will only remain an egg. A sperm is nothing but a sperm. Show me a human that has come to being from only one of these, and you might have the beginnings of an argument.

And science is pretty clear on the fact that it is the zygote that is the beginning of life. Let me be clear, I would not necessarily use this line to determine any laws regarding abortion. But the line is not arbitrary. There are unique cells with a unique genetic signature growing, and they do not belong to the mother.

This is even demonstrated in cases where Rh negative mothers have an Rh-positive baby, then develop antibodies to the Rh protein, complicating downstream pregnancies. This is not an autoimmune disorder. It is a complication that arises from the interaction with two bodies that have unique genetic signatures and epigenetic expressions.

If you want to look at arbitrary lines, then look no further than your definition that life begins when the "fetus is developed enough to survive on its own." No child, pre or post natal, is developed enough to survive on it's own. Tell a newborn to go get it's own dinner, and see how long it survives.

But perhaps you are referencing the ability to remove the fetus from the mother and still ensure its survival. This is also arbitrary, as scientific breakthroughs have moved this line several times, and likely will continue to move this line if progress continues.


Post viability, I can certainly see an argument to define the start of life. But when it comes to that life or the life of the mother, this is again not a place where government has any business deciding which life to pick. The risk analysis is entirely up to the woman. No one has the right to force her to give up <I>her</I> life for the life she carries. No more than anyone can mandate that someone donate their organs.

Why is this hypothetical woman giving up her life? Are you referencing situations where the life of the mother is in jeopardy? Or do you simply mean that her quality of life will suffer because she now has a child depending on her?

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Abortion in the South, and soon, probably all over the country - 25/04/2022 01:26:45 AM 998 Views
that is the trouble here - 25/04/2022 05:02:46 PM 223 Views
"The party of "bodily autonomy"" - 26/04/2022 04:51:05 PM 188 Views
That is a perverts motte and bailey argument - 26/04/2022 06:27:51 PM 189 Views
The issue is abortion. - 26/04/2022 07:39:00 PM 171 Views
Tell me your feelings about Lochner - 26/04/2022 07:53:00 PM 175 Views
Simple, it was wrongly decided. - 26/04/2022 09:51:27 PM 169 Views
I think that is enough for the day - 26/04/2022 11:07:42 PM 167 Views
I honestly don't give a fig about the constitution here... - 26/04/2022 07:00:57 PM 202 Views
You can't have your cake and eat it too. - 26/04/2022 07:42:51 PM 189 Views
Uhhh - 26/04/2022 07:54:13 PM 173 Views
I mean, yeah. - 26/04/2022 09:58:19 PM 157 Views
You seem to be arguing with an alternate version of me... - 27/04/2022 04:46:46 AM 194 Views
Broad popular support? - 27/04/2022 04:54:49 PM 177 Views
Cannoli is not wrong. - 26/04/2022 05:09:49 PM 200 Views
Cannoli is a contemptuous moron - 26/04/2022 06:56:33 PM 181 Views
I am contemptuous of you (and I suspect your vocabulary skills) - 26/04/2022 09:30:55 PM 189 Views
Was the Catholic Church EVIL . - 26/04/2022 07:01:50 PM 194 Views
Roland, I am neither supporting nor denying any specific theology in my original comment. - 26/04/2022 08:28:31 PM 163 Views
And I am problematizing your claim - 26/04/2022 08:34:17 PM 157 Views
Theodicy - 26/04/2022 08:55:50 PM 195 Views
Re: Theodicy - 26/04/2022 09:45:35 PM 175 Views
and yet... - 26/04/2022 10:35:58 PM 187 Views
What is the Andrea Dworkin line again? - 26/04/2022 11:06:30 PM 180 Views
You're correct about that. We are most assuredly talking past one another. - 26/04/2022 11:39:01 PM 153 Views
Have not had a drink yet. - 26/04/2022 11:46:59 PM 160 Views
Leaked draft opinion - 03/05/2022 06:42:20 PM 201 Views
John Roberts confirms it is real - 03/05/2022 07:37:26 PM 181 Views
Results were leaked, not opinions. - 03/05/2022 08:02:10 PM 162 Views
If you want to parse the history you are welcome to do so. - 03/05/2022 08:32:06 PM 171 Views
You're either being willfully ignorant or disingenuous - 03/05/2022 09:26:49 PM 179 Views
There's a very simple alternate reason - 05/05/2022 06:36:26 AM 167 Views
“Wants to get the word out there ASAP” - 05/05/2022 02:02:00 PM 157 Views
Re: “Wants to get the word out there ASAP” - 06/05/2022 09:18:24 PM 168 Views
He said, not coming up with any retort of his own. - 09/05/2022 03:04:07 PM 153 Views
Re: He said, not coming up with any retort of his own. - 09/05/2022 05:01:43 PM 137 Views
Don't blame me for your failures. - 09/05/2022 05:21:48 PM 137 Views
Leaking also kind of locks in the 5 justices into a more radical decision - 05/05/2022 04:08:58 PM 157 Views
Precisely. - 06/05/2022 09:22:16 PM 133 Views
Obvious intent my ass - 05/05/2022 06:32:10 AM 157 Views
Treasonous Pieces of Junk - 05/05/2022 01:58:23 PM 169 Views
I cannot commit treason - 06/05/2022 09:20:20 PM 163 Views
Neither am I. - 09/05/2022 03:02:54 PM 153 Views
Projecting what? - 09/05/2022 05:02:59 PM 147 Views
Is this a parody account? - 09/05/2022 05:25:39 PM 163 Views
Nope. - 12/05/2022 10:23:24 PM 155 Views
Well, if it's not a parody... - 13/05/2022 07:46:45 PM 141 Views
Go look up what it means to “project” - 13/05/2022 05:04:19 PM 165 Views
Stop shifting the goalposts - 13/05/2022 07:45:21 PM 147 Views
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Parody Account: Hypocrite, or Just Stupid? - 17/05/2022 07:26:49 PM 142 Views
actually, Trump was impeached - 05/05/2022 02:05:16 PM 156 Views
By Democrats and a few Republicans - 06/05/2022 09:21:38 PM 145 Views
you wrote: - 06/05/2022 09:34:09 PM 142 Views
Ummm - 06/05/2022 09:42:57 PM 148 Views
Interesting is one word for it... - 05/05/2022 06:38:23 AM 152 Views
That's your thought.... - 06/05/2022 05:34:21 PM 185 Views
Hardly just mine - 06/05/2022 09:23:32 PM 145 Views
Interesting... - 06/05/2022 10:33:56 PM 180 Views
Roe has restrictions - 07/05/2022 03:16:32 AM 145 Views
So popular opinion is what decides recognition of life... - 06/05/2022 10:44:08 PM 155 Views
Nice try - 07/05/2022 03:19:35 AM 138 Views
No one said that, and you know it... - 07/05/2022 05:56:04 AM 140 Views
Well that's a lot of empty noise - 07/05/2022 02:46:48 PM 151 Views
Then stop listening to yourself… - 07/05/2022 06:56:45 PM 195 Views
Serious reading comprehension fail here... - 08/05/2022 05:01:28 PM 155 Views
Not reading comprehension. Thinking comprehension... and it's not on my account - 09/05/2022 11:04:57 PM 149 Views
That is the Catholic Church's position after 1869, but lets do Idaho and LA - 07/05/2022 10:08:39 PM 157 Views
And the Minoans practiced child sacrifice... - 09/05/2022 11:51:44 PM 142 Views
So we are in agreement if we circle around - 10/05/2022 02:34:19 AM 143 Views
Well, we agree it will get worse - 10/05/2022 04:05:33 PM 142 Views
Thanks for explaining why Roe was egregiously wrong. - 09/05/2022 03:56:52 PM 146 Views
Roe imposed nothing - 09/05/2022 05:05:36 PM 148 Views
Actually, it does impose - 09/05/2022 05:19:38 PM 212 Views
Re: Actually, it does impose - 13/05/2022 05:09:04 PM 154 Views
Roe imposed abortion on states that banned it. - 09/05/2022 05:26:56 PM 160 Views
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I am not allowed to get divorced in my state of Texas if my spouse is pregnant. - 15/05/2022 07:59:19 PM 155 Views
Cool - 16/05/2022 12:10:57 AM 163 Views
So our state energy grid - 16/05/2022 01:41:50 AM 154 Views
Wow, not sure I've seen you so angry before - 16/05/2022 08:12:58 AM 166 Views
Are you off your meds? - 16/05/2022 12:35:18 PM 150 Views
I live in the world the US set up Internment Camps in living memory, I known survivors. - 16/05/2022 06:00:07 PM 134 Views
You're literally arguing with yourself. - 16/05/2022 08:00:37 PM 131 Views
That is precisely what I am afraid of - 16/05/2022 08:07:41 PM 127 Views
That can literally be flipped right on to the other side. - 16/05/2022 08:19:02 PM 145 Views
Just a reminder freedom of movement is not in the US Constitution - 16/05/2022 08:25:42 PM 149 Views
Again, you put words into my mouth that I've never said. - 16/05/2022 08:32:38 PM 141 Views
Who the fuck cares? - 17/05/2022 12:54:48 PM 169 Views
Parody account strikes back! - 17/05/2022 07:14:24 PM 138 Views
a few final thoughts - 07/05/2022 07:18:38 PM 230 Views
In some ways, it probably would've been better if Roe v Wade had never happened. - 07/05/2022 08:20:17 PM 179 Views
I can always count on you for rational discussion. *NM* - 07/05/2022 09:19:57 PM 146 Views
He really is wonderful. - 09/05/2022 04:29:00 PM 160 Views
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History and Histrionic or perhaps - 07/05/2022 10:25:23 PM 142 Views
The denominational distinctions within Christiandom aren't of concern to me... - 08/05/2022 05:09:12 PM 260 Views
There is an easy answer for you. - 09/05/2022 03:53:42 PM 151 Views

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