Active Users:315 Time:10/05/2024 12:49:30 AM
I don't think so Tom Send a noteboard - 07/08/2023 01:54:05 PM

I agree on the first part - the animosity has been worse, it will pass, and the people on the Left pushing the most radical agenda are by and large useless; even the so-called "Antifa" are actually afraid when real violence is used against them.

On the second part, I disagree. Cold War II is not as clear cut as Cold War I was. It comes on the heels of 30 years of undisputed American hegemony and arrogance in world affairs. Majorities or at least pluralities of voters in both parties are deeply and fundamentally distrustful of the reasons for Cold War II happening in the first place.

I am happy to see that now about 70% of Republicans are against sending more weapons to Ukraine. I don't need to bore you with a full litany of the facts, but you're well aware of the Bandera UPA-OUN activities, the way the US government sheltered many of them and sent them to Canada and the US (fun fact: an ex-gf admitted she was able to emigrate from Ukraine because of a relative who "emigrated" to the US in 1945), and how those people then wrote the history books used in Ukraine since 1991, poisoning entire generations against Russia by exaggerating everything bad Russia ever did and imputing "Russianness" to everything Soviet (fun fact 2: during the 2008 Russo-Georgian War some moronic talking head talked about how much Georgia had suffered under Russian dominance, particularly under Stalin).

I am sure you know that Soros was operating in Kiev since 1995 (fun fact 3: I applied to work at the Kiev office of his operations in 1997 without realizing what that organization was). You know the way the US supported Yushchenko to increase influence, and how in 2013 Yanukovich (legitimately elected) was initially told he could sign a trade treaty with both the EU and Russia until someone in the White House pulled the rug out from underneath him and forced the Europeans to give him a binary choice: EU OR Russia. Then, when he picked the more rational treaty (Russia was the export destination for some 60% of Ukraine's economic output), the pro-EU forces were paid by the US to orchestrate a coup to overthrow him (undemocratic). You know that the protestors hired snipers to start shooting at the police to encourage return fire, which was blamed on the police. You know Victoria Nuland hand picked the coup leaders who would replace a democratically elected Yanukovich.

You know that while all this was going on, Russia had been systematically mistreated by the US from the 1990s on. Jeffrey Sachs enriching himself on the Moscow Stock Exchange, shock therapy pronouncements from other figures, demanding Russia take all Imperial Russian and Soviet debt, the support for Chechen terrorists, support for other breakaway movements, destroying Russia's overseas investments in places like Iraq, bombing Russian ally Yugoslavia on the flimsiest of pretexts (UN later proved the Kosovars killed before the war were actually terrorist fighters), and breaking the 1990 promise not to move NATO eastwards. Then, when Russia genuinely wanted to help the US after 9/11, the US took advantage of it to engineer "revolutions" in Georgia, Ukraine, Kyrgyzstan and put military bases everywhere in the region, and finally the addition of the Baltics to NATO. When Russia asked if it too could join NATO, it was told it would be "too destabilizing". But then Ukraine and Georgia were offered a path to NATO membership and Bush wanted to put anti-ICBM missile batteries in Ukraine.

This was aimed at Russia's nuclear deterrent. By this point NATO had indicated it was intent on encircling Russia with hostile states, building them up and arming them and then seeking to disable Russia's only means of defending itself against the US. At that point Russia would be nearly defenseless against the "defensive" alliance and might suffer a fate similar to Iraq, Libya, or Serbia.

Honestly, I don't blame Russia for deciding to act pre-emptively. As the war has shown, if the Ukrainian army had been given a few more years of NATO training, it might have proven fatal to Russia.

Believe me, I harbor no illusions about the fact that Russia's government is not free or open at this point, but to risk nuclear war in order to attempt to encircle and undermine it is really too much. Hopefully Russia will force Ukraine to disarm and be a neutral like Austria or Switzerland during the Cold War. After the cost of the war Russia will certainly keep much of the East and maybe even parts of the center if it does indeed go on the offensive. Given the historic ties of the various parts of Ukraine handing over half the country to Russia makes sense anyway.

The US-China relationship has deteriorated so quickly I don't even know what happened. The Chinese haven't been behaving all that differently than they were 10 years ago. I get the feeling that the US just wants to turn off the flow of money back and forth to keep China from rising too far. However, the problem will resolve itself without any need for the US to antagonize things. China has peaked demographically, it's getting old before it's getting rich, and although it will remain an extremely powerful global player, it will not take over the world.

The US, by contrast, has been an arrogant hegemon. The US foreign policy establishment, already drunk on its own power after World War II, became completely uncontrolled in the 1990s and now the US finds itself in a position similar to that of Athens in the Peloponnesian War. Its friends and allies resent it and aren't happy with the way they've been treated like vassals, countries that try to "reform" often find themselves betrayed (Mubarak) or killed (Qaddhafi). Third world countries are buying into anti-colonial rhetoric in part because of continued mistreatment and the way they are dictated to.

Marx was wrong about a lot of things, but he was right when he said, "Geschichte ereignet sich immer zweimal - das erste Mal als Tragödie, das zweite Mal als Farce." The first Cold War was indeed a tragedy, but this Cold War II is truly farcical. The problem is that because the people running things in Washington are at this point dilettantes and out of control lackeys, we could still blunder our way into World War III.

Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.

ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius

Ummaka qinnassa nīk!

*MySmiley*
This message last edited by Tom on 07/08/2023 at 01:56:03 PM
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“Can you imagine our reading that James Madison or Thomas Jefferson tried to overthrow the gov't?" - 03/08/2023 09:02:48 PM 658 Views
I'm curious as to your point in posting this. - 04/08/2023 03:17:48 AM 120 Views
The point is that these uneducated dumbass race-baiters dare to lecture us - 04/08/2023 05:33:36 PM 118 Views
. . . - 05/08/2023 02:14:20 PM 125 Views
You're entitled to your optimistic view - 05/08/2023 04:24:33 PM 112 Views
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You're entitled to your optimistic view. *NM* - 06/08/2023 09:18:39 PM 47 Views
Not only is this statistically incorrect, it's historically incorrect. - 08/08/2023 11:35:42 PM 101 Views
Sigh, I understand that it's hard to grasp these days, with our medical miracles, - 14/08/2023 05:52:01 PM 101 Views
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And Covid killed 1000000 Americans lol - 14/08/2023 09:49:02 PM 90 Views
I don't think so - 07/08/2023 01:54:05 PM 136 Views
These facts would cause you to be denounced as a "putinite fascist"... - 07/08/2023 05:45:05 PM 107 Views
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Tom, you are being far too reasonable. That doesn’t fly in 2023! *NM* - 08/08/2023 12:22:49 AM 53 Views
He is, which is why, I think, he is wrong. *NM* - 08/08/2023 10:18:32 PM 52 Views
I just can't buy that the political and academic class will give up their grip so easily. - 08/08/2023 05:49:58 PM 92 Views
Academics have been pro Marxism for over 100 years. It's nothing new. *NM* - 08/08/2023 05:59:55 PM 49 Views
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No, they only recruited students to spy for the Soviets *NM* - 14/08/2023 06:18:58 PM 47 Views
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Do you have sources for that 'far more conservative and far more religious' claim? - 09/08/2023 07:35:50 PM 105 Views
In regards to more conservative, - 09/08/2023 08:35:03 PM 109 Views
I side with Greg and Tom in this discussion. - 08/08/2023 05:57:54 PM 107 Views
I don't suppose linking medical articles is going to help too much here, but... - 08/08/2023 11:28:05 PM 107 Views
Elizabeth, you know I have a non binary grandchild. - 09/08/2023 01:22:32 AM 106 Views
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Respectfully, do you truly believe this? - 09/08/2023 05:42:31 PM 105 Views
I'll bite... - 09/08/2023 06:39:46 PM 101 Views
Thanks. <3 *NM* - 09/08/2023 08:27:13 PM 51 Views
Your thoughts - 11/08/2023 04:14:37 PM 94 Views
Yes, that's true. - 11/08/2023 06:11:49 PM 98 Views
Re: Yes, that's true. - 12/08/2023 04:25:28 PM 94 Views
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As I said, it wasn't intended as perfect analogy - it's about how much say should children have. - 11/08/2023 06:44:33 PM 101 Views
No, seriously, only the last one was intended as parody. And I'd like an explanation. - 14/08/2023 05:43:37 PM 89 Views
There aren't a lot of people committing suicide over their teeth coming in. - 14/08/2023 08:21:29 PM 88 Views
Indeed. - 14/08/2023 09:50:53 PM 88 Views
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See, you're willing to discuss, instead of insult. Others on this board might take note. - 17/08/2023 05:18:39 PM 94 Views
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Nobody is an outsider when reality is being attacked. - 25/08/2023 05:40:43 PM 88 Views
Fun facts - 26/08/2023 06:22:57 AM 91 Views
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Imagine if you had the same attitude towards trans people. - 28/08/2023 12:02:34 AM 74 Views
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I must say, - 31/08/2023 07:04:47 PM 83 Views
Love is being true. Love is being honest. Love is God. - 31/08/2023 07:52:59 PM 76 Views
Really went off the deep end there huh... - 31/08/2023 10:39:02 PM 77 Views
At least my beliefs can't be disproven by a $40 test at Wal-Mart. - 02/09/2023 03:40:43 PM 73 Views
It's ok. Many of us are quite sad for you too. - 29/08/2023 11:10:32 AM 76 Views
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No such thing as damnation, but thanks. - 31/08/2023 06:55:23 PM 75 Views
Then nothing more needs to be said. See who support your lies, Ghav? They literally deny Love. *NM* - 31/08/2023 07:54:23 PM 41 Views
He understands love a lot better than you do. *NM* - 01/09/2023 04:46:14 AM 43 Views
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Of course I'm Christian. I confess the faith of the apostles and of the councils. - 03/09/2023 11:41:56 AM 70 Views
Would you castrate Michelangelo's David? - 03/09/2023 09:03:07 PM 70 Views
Dude, you have really driven this off the deep end. - 03/09/2023 04:03:16 PM 79 Views
It is not, and I am not. - 03/09/2023 09:06:48 PM 82 Views
You absolutely are - 03/09/2023 09:27:00 PM 66 Views
Caution is not condemnation. Warning is not judgment. - 03/09/2023 11:05:17 PM 73 Views
Bro, I'm not worried about your immortal soul. - 03/09/2023 11:35:41 PM 78 Views
I get that. But Ghav, supposedly, is. - 04/09/2023 12:09:55 AM 76 Views
You’ve expressed some pretty odious and ugly sentiments. - 03/09/2023 10:07:51 PM 85 Views
Yeah, I'm definitely an outsider, and so are you. - 28/08/2023 07:49:48 PM 78 Views
Ok. - 29/08/2023 05:09:14 AM 71 Views
I'll chew... - 11/08/2023 10:35:45 PM 106 Views
What's your stance on parents who refuse medical treatment for their children with cancer? - 11/08/2023 11:12:21 PM 100 Views
I think... - 11/08/2023 11:37:52 PM 100 Views
Really? - 12/08/2023 12:02:12 AM 92 Views
Am I being unreasonable? - 12/08/2023 05:16:06 AM 96 Views
Maybe not - 12/08/2023 03:38:50 PM 108 Views
Most of us don't really like "the gays," either. And referring to people as "blacks" is offensive. *NM* - 13/08/2023 12:34:32 AM 46 Views
... is referring to people as "whites" offensive? I really, really hope you say yes. *NM* - 14/08/2023 05:46:07 PM 47 Views
Unfortunately for whites, gays, blacks, and transgenders... - 14/08/2023 06:09:47 PM 81 Views
Their voice only counts *NM* - 14/08/2023 06:20:32 PM 43 Views
Touché *NM* - 14/08/2023 07:12:54 PM 48 Views
You can always choose not to be a dick online. *NM* - 14/08/2023 08:19:52 PM 41 Views
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You're not a dick. You're honest. - 14/08/2023 09:54:34 PM 80 Views
Why not both? - 15/08/2023 03:01:58 AM 84 Views
Sad, but true. - 17/08/2023 05:22:11 PM 77 Views
Re: I think... - 13/08/2023 12:35:05 AM 94 Views
Re: I'll chew... - 12/08/2023 03:49:47 PM 98 Views
Re: I'll chew... - 14/08/2023 10:56:15 PM 86 Views
Re: I'll chew... - 15/08/2023 11:32:12 PM 88 Views
3 weeks later, did you have fun with this thread Tyr? *NM* - 28/08/2023 08:16:13 PM 41 Views
We went a bit afield, sure, but hey, the board has a discussion going, doesn't it? *NM* - 29/08/2023 05:00:03 AM 40 Views
Well take care - 31/08/2023 11:06:43 PM 83 Views
Same to you. - 03/09/2023 04:20:19 AM 71 Views
Seeing things as beautiful or rotting - 03/09/2023 05:21:50 PM 77 Views
I could not disagree more. - 03/09/2023 09:13:31 PM 81 Views
See this is about you - 03/09/2023 11:22:53 PM 87 Views
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How much history do you know about Samaritans? - 03/09/2023 11:39:54 PM 73 Views
Friend, you can cut the shit. - 04/09/2023 12:19:56 AM 78 Views
I was going to talk about Mount Gerizim you nitwit - 04/09/2023 01:36:16 AM 75 Views
Oh, my apologies then. - 04/09/2023 07:46:57 PM 75 Views

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