Active Users:321 Time:13/07/2025 09:02:21 AM
This is not bait, I am legitimately trying to understand. And if I understand correctly... TyrReborn Send a noteboard - 11/08/2023 05:17:02 PM


Imagine a teenager with gender dysphoria, who actually does get to choose freely:

puberty blockers, including their side effects, in order to make the rest of the transition later on (with or without surgery) easier
or
no puberty blockers, avoiding the side effects and making a potential retransition later in life easier, but at the cost of making them miserable throughout puberty and making future stages of the transition more difficult
And sure, the second option is 'doing nothing', but doing nothing is also a choice, which has upsides and downsides too.


So let me see if I understand this correctly.

  1. Puberty causes permanent changes to the body.
  2. Some people do not feel comfortable going through these permanent changes, for whatever reason
  3. We should do what we can to alleviate the suffering they feel to the extent that we can.
    So,
  4. We should artificially limit puberty.

Is that correct? Because if so, I need you to explain to me what's different about this;

  1. Teething causes permanent changes to the body.
  2. Some people do not feel comfortable going through this very painful period.
  3. We should do what we can to alleviate the suffering they feel to the extent that we can.
    So,
  4. We should artificially limit teething.

Or this;

  1. Growing causes permanent changes to the body.
  2. Some people do not feel comfortable going through these painful changes.
  3. We should do what we can to alleviate the sufering they feel to the extent that we can.
    So,
  4. We should remove their pituitary gland

And this one is a bit of a stretch/parody, but it is the same logic.

  1. Death causes permanent changes to the body.
  2. Some people do not feel comfortable going through these changes.
  3. We should do what we can to alleviate the suffering they feel to the extent that we can.
    So,
  4. Kill everybody so nobody has to die anymore.

~~~~~~~



Out of curiosity, do you think teenagers...

We'll go with your cancer statement. If the patient decides not to try the chemo, that is their decision. If they decide to do the chemo, that is their decision. They should make it with their parents and their doctors. And I see the point you're trying to make, but we must go back to something else you said.



Imagine a teenager with gender dysphoria,

I've spent the last several years being told "THEY HAVE THE WRONG BRAIN IN THE WRONG BODY!" or "YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE MENTAL HEALTH STRUGGLE!" or "IF YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT THEIR SUFFERING DON'T MAKE FUN OF THEM!"

But now I have to imagine being one? Either it's something I cannot understand, and it's a real thing, much like I'll never understand how it feels to carry a child in a womb, or it's something I can "imagine", and they aren't "bOrN tHaT wAy!1!"

If it's the former, then I just don't get it, and these people are suffering something I can't comprehend, and shouldn't be called a bigot for not understanding. If it's the latter, then isn't that sort of blowing up the argument that's been made for the last several years?

So basically, I reject your comparison with cancer. A life-stealing disease, slowly devouring your body is not really comparable to mental anguish, no matter how deep. That's like comparing cancer to a vet's suicide. Both tragic, but it's apples and oranges.

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“Can you imagine our reading that James Madison or Thomas Jefferson tried to overthrow the gov't?" - 03/08/2023 09:02:48 PM 1121 Views
I'm curious as to your point in posting this. - 04/08/2023 03:17:48 AM 504 Views
The point is that these uneducated dumbass race-baiters dare to lecture us - 04/08/2023 05:33:36 PM 484 Views
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Do you have sources for that 'far more conservative and far more religious' claim? - 09/08/2023 07:35:50 PM 476 Views
In regards to more conservative, - 09/08/2023 08:35:03 PM 504 Views
I side with Greg and Tom in this discussion. - 08/08/2023 05:57:54 PM 460 Views
I don't suppose linking medical articles is going to help too much here, but... - 08/08/2023 11:28:05 PM 502 Views
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Respectfully, do you truly believe this? - 09/08/2023 05:42:31 PM 469 Views
I'll bite... - 09/08/2023 06:39:46 PM 461 Views
Thanks. <3 *NM* - 09/08/2023 08:27:13 PM 217 Views
Your thoughts - 11/08/2023 04:14:37 PM 452 Views
Yes, that's true. - 11/08/2023 06:11:49 PM 484 Views
Re: Yes, that's true. - 12/08/2023 04:25:28 PM 448 Views
This is not bait, I am legitimately trying to understand. And if I understand correctly... - 11/08/2023 05:17:02 PM 477 Views
As I said, it wasn't intended as perfect analogy - it's about how much say should children have. - 11/08/2023 06:44:33 PM 483 Views
No, seriously, only the last one was intended as parody. And I'd like an explanation. - 14/08/2023 05:43:37 PM 456 Views
There aren't a lot of people committing suicide over their teeth coming in. - 14/08/2023 08:21:29 PM 469 Views
Indeed. - 14/08/2023 09:50:53 PM 444 Views
Re: No, seriously, only the last one was intended as parody. And I'd like an explanation. - 15/08/2023 04:14:57 PM 491 Views
See, you're willing to discuss, instead of insult. Others on this board might take note. - 17/08/2023 05:18:39 PM 472 Views
Yeah, well, I have the luxury of an outsider's position... - 23/08/2023 11:47:24 PM 485 Views
Nobody is an outsider when reality is being attacked. - 25/08/2023 05:40:43 PM 469 Views
Fun facts - 26/08/2023 06:22:57 AM 518 Views
Not really "fun" so much as "a sad reality of biology", but yes. - 27/08/2023 09:42:14 PM 477 Views
Imagine if you had the same attitude towards trans people. - 28/08/2023 12:02:34 AM 458 Views
I may be no endocrinologist, but I at least understand simple biology. XY =/= XX =/= XXY - 28/08/2023 05:40:14 PM 442 Views
Simple is definitely true. Shame you never learned biology past what you were taught in high school. - 28/08/2023 11:21:38 PM 459 Views
Right, cause we're "butterflies" - 29/08/2023 04:57:20 AM 446 Views
I go to mass more than you. *NM* - 29/08/2023 09:58:09 AM 215 Views
Wow, really? And you still mutilated your body and told God that He was wrong about you? - 31/08/2023 05:44:32 PM 446 Views
I must say, - 31/08/2023 07:04:47 PM 474 Views
Love is being true. Love is being honest. Love is God. - 31/08/2023 07:52:59 PM 453 Views
Really went off the deep end there huh... - 31/08/2023 10:39:02 PM 443 Views
At least my beliefs can't be disproven by a $40 test at Wal-Mart. - 02/09/2023 03:40:43 PM 443 Views
It's ok. Many of us are quite sad for you too. - 29/08/2023 11:10:32 AM 453 Views
I couldn't care less what unbelievers think. You'll meet the Truth, one day. - 31/08/2023 05:45:31 PM 450 Views
No such thing as damnation, but thanks. - 31/08/2023 06:55:23 PM 450 Views
Then nothing more needs to be said. See who support your lies, Ghav? They literally deny Love. *NM* - 31/08/2023 07:54:23 PM 200 Views
He understands love a lot better than you do. *NM* - 01/09/2023 04:46:14 AM 202 Views
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You're simply acting deranged at this point. - 03/09/2023 01:13:20 AM 480 Views
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Of course I'm Christian. I confess the faith of the apostles and of the councils. - 03/09/2023 11:41:56 AM 440 Views
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It is not, and I am not. - 03/09/2023 09:06:48 PM 461 Views
You absolutely are - 03/09/2023 09:27:00 PM 424 Views
Caution is not condemnation. Warning is not judgment. - 03/09/2023 11:05:17 PM 442 Views
Bro, I'm not worried about your immortal soul. - 03/09/2023 11:35:41 PM 457 Views
I get that. But Ghav, supposedly, is. - 04/09/2023 12:09:55 AM 463 Views
You’ve expressed some pretty odious and ugly sentiments. - 03/09/2023 10:07:51 PM 457 Views
Yeah, I'm definitely an outsider, and so are you. - 28/08/2023 07:49:48 PM 437 Views
Ok. - 29/08/2023 05:09:14 AM 444 Views
I'll chew... - 11/08/2023 10:35:45 PM 471 Views
What's your stance on parents who refuse medical treatment for their children with cancer? - 11/08/2023 11:12:21 PM 482 Views
I think... - 11/08/2023 11:37:52 PM 478 Views
Really? - 12/08/2023 12:02:12 AM 461 Views
Am I being unreasonable? - 12/08/2023 05:16:06 AM 495 Views
Maybe not - 12/08/2023 03:38:50 PM 487 Views
Most of us don't really like "the gays," either. And referring to people as "blacks" is offensive. *NM* - 13/08/2023 12:34:32 AM 210 Views
... is referring to people as "whites" offensive? I really, really hope you say yes. *NM* - 14/08/2023 05:46:07 PM 260 Views
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Their voice only counts *NM* - 14/08/2023 06:20:32 PM 203 Views
Touché *NM* - 14/08/2023 07:12:54 PM 203 Views
You can always choose not to be a dick online. *NM* - 14/08/2023 08:19:52 PM 196 Views
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You're not a dick. You're honest. - 14/08/2023 09:54:34 PM 469 Views
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Sad, but true. - 17/08/2023 05:22:11 PM 448 Views
Re: I think... - 13/08/2023 12:35:05 AM 481 Views
Re: I'll chew... - 12/08/2023 03:49:47 PM 505 Views
Re: I'll chew... - 14/08/2023 10:56:15 PM 452 Views
Re: I'll chew... - 15/08/2023 11:32:12 PM 473 Views
3 weeks later, did you have fun with this thread Tyr? *NM* - 28/08/2023 08:16:13 PM 214 Views
We went a bit afield, sure, but hey, the board has a discussion going, doesn't it? *NM* - 29/08/2023 05:00:03 AM 196 Views
Well take care - 31/08/2023 11:06:43 PM 478 Views
Same to you. - 03/09/2023 04:20:19 AM 458 Views
Seeing things as beautiful or rotting - 03/09/2023 05:21:50 PM 462 Views
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See this is about you - 03/09/2023 11:22:53 PM 461 Views
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Friend, you can cut the shit. - 04/09/2023 12:19:56 AM 448 Views
I was going to talk about Mount Gerizim you nitwit - 04/09/2023 01:36:16 AM 457 Views
Oh, my apologies then. - 04/09/2023 07:46:57 PM 463 Views

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