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why so pissy? darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 19/05/2010 03:34:22 PM
... and I'll provide it as soon as you prove you're not a Nazi serial child rapist.

Incidentally, do you have any quotes supporting that fact that the Green Ajah never supported False Dragons? Or the Blues? Or the Whites? Or any of them?
How about Tam al'Thor? Do you have any quotes that prove that he never supported False Dragons?
Or Morgase? Basel Gill?

Seriously, learn about burden of proof.

As I recall there was a supposed plot for Black Sisters to help Taim escape and make him a terror on the world ... given that there would be a 100% chance of a Red in any group of Sisters sent after a FD and the fact that a much larger proportion of Reds are Blacks and that the woman likely to pick the Red who would lead the expedition was Black (Galina) it's pretty easy to conclude that some Reds have been involved with raising FD in the past.


Given that this plot was revealed by a Black Sister magically Oathbound not to betray the Shadow's secrets until the hour of her death, it seems evident that there wasn't any such plan. Plus, given that the plan was to impersonate Rand (the real Dragon Reborn) I fail to see how that would have been of any value in previous circumstances.


You asked/pondered/complained (whatever) about why the Reds didn't make a bigger deal out of Siuan's lies ... the rest of us are simply throwing out some plausible scenarios as to why Reds would keep quiet about it ... I asked for the quote because I'm wondering if I missed something along the way. A quote from someone that eliminated any possibility that no Red Sister in history could have ever been involved with any FD.

My scenario is based on an assumption that various Reds may have simply been unsure enough of the truth to voice complaint. Perhaps Pevaara and/or Jahvindrah will call it into question when they return (if they return) since Pevaara clearly thinks it's a lie and Jahvindrah was actually accused as the ring leader. Assuming she's not Black she could even say straight out that she had nothing to do with Logain.

I don't think it's as plausible that a non-Red would do such a thing since it would ultimately set up the Red for glory and none of the others would want that! But it's not impossible given the potential for personal glory if you are the one who captures him in the end. There is circumstantial evidence that a Red (or a Black-Red at least) would in fact do this ... as evidenced by how easily the Rebels believed the Logain scenario ... obviously not the first time AS had thoughts like these pass through their minds.

Let's analyze why Siuan would have picked this particular story to begin with and why the other Rebels would accept it ...

1. It's easy enough to believe. If this concept was so hard to accept Siuan would have taken another approach. She knows that the other Sisters will only accept that she believes Logain's story as truth since they all know that loophole in the Oath.

2. Reds character. Most other AS look askance at the Red since many of the Reds seem rather bitter and are almost universally stand-offish with non-Reds.

3. Siuan and Logain even used a Sitter and the new Amrylin as key players in their story, which must have been plausible since even other Sitters bought the story with no proof other than Siuan's word.

4. The Vileness. The events of the last 20 years make this story that much more believable to any of the Sitters in the Rebel camp. Any of the women who were around back then would know the real reason Tsutama and the other two Red Sitters went into exile back in those days and it's not that big of a leap to see this as an escalation from Gentling men on the spot to setting up a FD for more glory.

Seems to me that if Siuan anticipated a hard sell, she would have found another more plausible story to come up with ... perhaps something like Elaida is Black Ajah or perhpas accuse her of covering up something she caused in Andor during her days there.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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Character discussion 2 : Siuan Sanche and Leane Sharif - 09/05/2010 06:01:33 PM 5368 Views
The "Shrinking of Siuan" after stilling destroyed my initial awe for the Amyrlin positition... - 09/05/2010 07:07:09 PM 1293 Views
yeah, but then again ... - 09/05/2010 09:05:36 PM 1021 Views
That's total nonsense... - 10/05/2010 08:34:08 AM 1260 Views
No, THAT's total nonsense... - 10/05/2010 09:27:41 AM 1141 Views
He raised other issues too - 10/05/2010 11:04:52 AM 1135 Views
You seem to deal in bad analogies... - 10/05/2010 05:14:47 PM 1146 Views
You've got an irritating manner about you. No wonder you find Aes Sedai so believable. - 10/05/2010 05:53:00 PM 999 Views
Hello Pot. I'm Kettle. - 10/05/2010 06:41:58 PM 1024 Views
Hello Kettle. I'm Frying pan *NM* - 11/05/2010 03:43:20 PM 553 Views
Hello Frying pan. I'm Skillet. *NM* - 12/05/2010 11:50:33 PM 567 Views
I usually agree about his manner, but he's right here. - 12/05/2010 04:24:28 AM 1125 Views
Re: No, THAT's total nonsense... - 19/05/2010 04:39:07 PM 1049 Views
I think you're looking at it the wrong way. - 12/05/2010 06:32:00 AM 1056 Views
Both wonderful characters... - 10/05/2010 12:49:44 AM 964 Views
They deserved to be deposed and stilled, I think ... - 10/05/2010 02:47:35 PM 1174 Views
"They"? - 10/05/2010 05:16:54 PM 1079 Views
Good point ... - 10/05/2010 06:45:52 PM 1234 Views
Re: Good point ... - 10/05/2010 06:49:19 PM 1095 Views
Re: Good point ... - 11/05/2010 03:43:43 PM 1261 Views
Leanne was not an Overseer - 17/05/2010 02:40:45 AM 1087 Views
Re: "They"? - 11/05/2010 02:53:23 PM 1147 Views
And she was eventually brought in on the secrets as well... - 12/05/2010 04:38:52 AM 1099 Views
I don't know if I agree with this - 11/05/2010 03:19:20 PM 1117 Views
The thing is ... - 11/05/2010 09:06:15 PM 1052 Views
I get what you are saying, but the quote is from much earlier - 14/05/2010 03:14:17 PM 867 Views
I totally unagree... - 17/05/2010 11:16:50 AM 1351 Views
I like Leane, and respected Siuan until RJ mauled her character - 10/05/2010 05:55:08 PM 1024 Views
She was probably the sacrificial lamb in place of Moiraine - 10/05/2010 06:25:39 PM 980 Views
The deck was certainly stacked against Siuan from the very beginning - 11/05/2010 02:44:05 PM 1065 Views
This is a main reason I hope Siuan and Leanne get their full strength restored - 11/05/2010 02:25:31 PM 1064 Views
I don't really agree - 11/05/2010 05:35:44 PM 1017 Views
Re: I don't really agree - 11/05/2010 06:28:48 PM 1131 Views
I hope so, as well. - 13/05/2010 05:31:36 PM 1047 Views
Re: Character discussion 2 : Siuan Sanche and Leane Sharif - 11/05/2010 05:06:51 PM 1615 Views
I'm still annoyed that Siuan is not going to face the consequences of lying about the Reds. - 12/05/2010 05:18:47 AM 1071 Views
In Egwene's defense, it would be hypocritical of her to bring that up after profiting from it - 12/05/2010 05:59:57 AM 1063 Views
Oh, I never expected Egwene to do something about this. - 12/05/2010 06:12:35 AM 941 Views
Well she's off forging a relationship with the Asha'man - you know, useful stuff? *NM* - 12/05/2010 06:39:04 AM 617 Views
Are you claiming that Pevara was the only woman in the entire Red Ajah to be offended by that lie? *NM* - 12/05/2010 07:15:40 AM 561 Views
The Reds aren't petty - 12/05/2010 04:52:50 PM 928 Views
Are you kidding? - 12/05/2010 06:14:46 PM 1090 Views
Unless of course there is truth to it - 17/05/2010 01:50:27 PM 1069 Views
There is none. - 17/05/2010 07:09:59 PM 1042 Views
Uhhh? - 17/05/2010 08:45:15 PM 955 Views
... - 17/05/2010 11:08:05 PM 1093 Views
Re: ... - 18/05/2010 05:25:33 AM 1030 Views
Seriously, are you kidding? [EDIT] - 18/05/2010 06:06:01 AM 1032 Views
*sigh* - 18/05/2010 12:30:43 PM 1107 Views
So, you're not kidding. - 18/05/2010 09:12:27 PM 971 Views
Re: So, you're not kidding. - 18/05/2010 10:25:19 PM 1004 Views
Re: So, you're not kidding. - 19/05/2010 12:41:09 AM 1096 Views
So, Tsutama... - 19/05/2010 05:29:56 PM 1170 Views
Ugh. - 20/05/2010 04:05:43 AM 916 Views
WTF? - 20/05/2010 05:25:42 PM 986 Views
F-T is right - 19/05/2010 12:32:33 AM 1084 Views
On the minority thing... - 18/05/2010 04:26:15 PM 1062 Views
That's exactly the problem. - 18/05/2010 08:51:45 PM 917 Views
There is no rewriting... - 18/05/2010 08:57:50 PM 922 Views
Re: There is no rewriting... - 18/05/2010 09:21:31 PM 1026 Views
Really do you have a quote supporting the fact that there has never been a FD supported by a Red? - 18/05/2010 09:39:31 PM 1072 Views
Of course..., I'll provide it as soon as you prove you're not a Nazi serial child rapist. - 18/05/2010 10:06:23 PM 879 Views
why so pissy? - 19/05/2010 03:34:22 PM 1057 Views
Sorry. - 20/05/2010 04:16:43 AM 977 Views
Re: Sorry. - 20/05/2010 08:19:13 AM 865 Views
Re: Sorry. - 20/05/2010 08:33:54 AM 1112 Views
Re: Sorry. - 20/05/2010 01:26:47 PM 891 Views
Interesting. - 20/05/2010 07:34:45 PM 983 Views
Re: Interesting. - 21/05/2010 05:07:07 AM 1000 Views
Re: Interesting. - 21/05/2010 06:28:05 AM 936 Views
LOL - 21/05/2010 02:50:29 PM 941 Views
... - 21/05/2010 08:23:08 PM 1127 Views
There may be one explanation... - 13/05/2010 10:04:46 PM 960 Views
That doesn't make sense. - 13/05/2010 10:54:53 PM 1105 Views
it was about more than just male channelers - 18/05/2010 09:50:14 PM 1156 Views
Yes, that's true. - 18/05/2010 10:07:22 PM 1129 Views
I'm also certain the majority of the Red had no clue/involvement - 20/05/2010 10:24:54 PM 1016 Views
That's also true. - 20/05/2010 10:29:11 PM 984 Views
Okay I'm leaving you alone ... you clearly don't want to continue - 20/05/2010 10:31:01 PM 988 Views
Why are they lumped together? - 12/05/2010 05:53:51 AM 1270 Views
for practical purposes - 12/05/2010 04:50:48 PM 951 Views
AS shrunk after stilling; Siuan and Leane became huge. - 12/05/2010 10:50:50 PM 983 Views
Re: AS shrunk after stilling; Siuan and Leane became huge. - 12/05/2010 11:05:17 PM 1099 Views
No, I don't think so - 13/05/2010 05:10:03 AM 919 Views
Let's just say we disagree. - 17/05/2010 11:15:31 PM 1045 Views
Bah! - 18/05/2010 04:33:40 PM 1001 Views
Pfft - 18/05/2010 05:31:16 PM 1027 Views
You don't have to intimidate people to manipulate them. - 19/05/2010 12:46:02 AM 880 Views

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