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why so pissy? darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 19/05/2010 03:34:22 PM
... and I'll provide it as soon as you prove you're not a Nazi serial child rapist.

Incidentally, do you have any quotes supporting that fact that the Green Ajah never supported False Dragons? Or the Blues? Or the Whites? Or any of them?
How about Tam al'Thor? Do you have any quotes that prove that he never supported False Dragons?
Or Morgase? Basel Gill?

Seriously, learn about burden of proof.

As I recall there was a supposed plot for Black Sisters to help Taim escape and make him a terror on the world ... given that there would be a 100% chance of a Red in any group of Sisters sent after a FD and the fact that a much larger proportion of Reds are Blacks and that the woman likely to pick the Red who would lead the expedition was Black (Galina) it's pretty easy to conclude that some Reds have been involved with raising FD in the past.


Given that this plot was revealed by a Black Sister magically Oathbound not to betray the Shadow's secrets until the hour of her death, it seems evident that there wasn't any such plan. Plus, given that the plan was to impersonate Rand (the real Dragon Reborn) I fail to see how that would have been of any value in previous circumstances.


You asked/pondered/complained (whatever) about why the Reds didn't make a bigger deal out of Siuan's lies ... the rest of us are simply throwing out some plausible scenarios as to why Reds would keep quiet about it ... I asked for the quote because I'm wondering if I missed something along the way. A quote from someone that eliminated any possibility that no Red Sister in history could have ever been involved with any FD.

My scenario is based on an assumption that various Reds may have simply been unsure enough of the truth to voice complaint. Perhaps Pevaara and/or Jahvindrah will call it into question when they return (if they return) since Pevaara clearly thinks it's a lie and Jahvindrah was actually accused as the ring leader. Assuming she's not Black she could even say straight out that she had nothing to do with Logain.

I don't think it's as plausible that a non-Red would do such a thing since it would ultimately set up the Red for glory and none of the others would want that! But it's not impossible given the potential for personal glory if you are the one who captures him in the end. There is circumstantial evidence that a Red (or a Black-Red at least) would in fact do this ... as evidenced by how easily the Rebels believed the Logain scenario ... obviously not the first time AS had thoughts like these pass through their minds.

Let's analyze why Siuan would have picked this particular story to begin with and why the other Rebels would accept it ...

1. It's easy enough to believe. If this concept was so hard to accept Siuan would have taken another approach. She knows that the other Sisters will only accept that she believes Logain's story as truth since they all know that loophole in the Oath.

2. Reds character. Most other AS look askance at the Red since many of the Reds seem rather bitter and are almost universally stand-offish with non-Reds.

3. Siuan and Logain even used a Sitter and the new Amrylin as key players in their story, which must have been plausible since even other Sitters bought the story with no proof other than Siuan's word.

4. The Vileness. The events of the last 20 years make this story that much more believable to any of the Sitters in the Rebel camp. Any of the women who were around back then would know the real reason Tsutama and the other two Red Sitters went into exile back in those days and it's not that big of a leap to see this as an escalation from Gentling men on the spot to setting up a FD for more glory.

Seems to me that if Siuan anticipated a hard sell, she would have found another more plausible story to come up with ... perhaps something like Elaida is Black Ajah or perhpas accuse her of covering up something she caused in Andor during her days there.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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Character discussion 2 : Siuan Sanche and Leane Sharif - 09/05/2010 06:01:33 PM 4956 Views
The "Shrinking of Siuan" after stilling destroyed my initial awe for the Amyrlin positition... - 09/05/2010 07:07:09 PM 989 Views
yeah, but then again ... - 09/05/2010 09:05:36 PM 770 Views
That's total nonsense... - 10/05/2010 08:34:08 AM 1028 Views
No, THAT's total nonsense... - 10/05/2010 09:27:41 AM 891 Views
He raised other issues too - 10/05/2010 11:04:52 AM 894 Views
You seem to deal in bad analogies... - 10/05/2010 05:14:47 PM 912 Views
You've got an irritating manner about you. No wonder you find Aes Sedai so believable. - 10/05/2010 05:53:00 PM 756 Views
Hello Pot. I'm Kettle. - 10/05/2010 06:41:58 PM 782 Views
Hello Kettle. I'm Frying pan *NM* - 11/05/2010 03:43:20 PM 449 Views
Hello Frying pan. I'm Skillet. *NM* - 12/05/2010 11:50:33 PM 465 Views
I usually agree about his manner, but he's right here. - 12/05/2010 04:24:28 AM 857 Views
Re: No, THAT's total nonsense... - 19/05/2010 04:39:07 PM 809 Views
I think you're looking at it the wrong way. - 12/05/2010 06:32:00 AM 815 Views
Both wonderful characters... - 10/05/2010 12:49:44 AM 748 Views
They deserved to be deposed and stilled, I think ... - 10/05/2010 02:47:35 PM 952 Views
"They"? - 10/05/2010 05:16:54 PM 833 Views
Good point ... - 10/05/2010 06:45:52 PM 938 Views
Re: Good point ... - 10/05/2010 06:49:19 PM 851 Views
Re: Good point ... - 11/05/2010 03:43:43 PM 1047 Views
Leanne was not an Overseer - 17/05/2010 02:40:45 AM 859 Views
Re: "They"? - 11/05/2010 02:53:23 PM 884 Views
And she was eventually brought in on the secrets as well... - 12/05/2010 04:38:52 AM 844 Views
I don't know if I agree with this - 11/05/2010 03:19:20 PM 909 Views
The thing is ... - 11/05/2010 09:06:15 PM 828 Views
I get what you are saying, but the quote is from much earlier - 14/05/2010 03:14:17 PM 655 Views
I totally unagree... - 17/05/2010 11:16:50 AM 1045 Views
I like Leane, and respected Siuan until RJ mauled her character - 10/05/2010 05:55:08 PM 807 Views
She was probably the sacrificial lamb in place of Moiraine - 10/05/2010 06:25:39 PM 755 Views
The deck was certainly stacked against Siuan from the very beginning - 11/05/2010 02:44:05 PM 815 Views
This is a main reason I hope Siuan and Leanne get their full strength restored - 11/05/2010 02:25:31 PM 852 Views
I don't really agree - 11/05/2010 05:35:44 PM 795 Views
Re: I don't really agree - 11/05/2010 06:28:48 PM 855 Views
I hope so, as well. - 13/05/2010 05:31:36 PM 804 Views
Re: Character discussion 2 : Siuan Sanche and Leane Sharif - 11/05/2010 05:06:51 PM 942 Views
I'm still annoyed that Siuan is not going to face the consequences of lying about the Reds. - 12/05/2010 05:18:47 AM 839 Views
In Egwene's defense, it would be hypocritical of her to bring that up after profiting from it - 12/05/2010 05:59:57 AM 807 Views
Oh, I never expected Egwene to do something about this. - 12/05/2010 06:12:35 AM 733 Views
Well she's off forging a relationship with the Asha'man - you know, useful stuff? *NM* - 12/05/2010 06:39:04 AM 507 Views
Are you claiming that Pevara was the only woman in the entire Red Ajah to be offended by that lie? *NM* - 12/05/2010 07:15:40 AM 449 Views
The Reds aren't petty - 12/05/2010 04:52:50 PM 692 Views
Are you kidding? - 12/05/2010 06:14:46 PM 826 Views
Unless of course there is truth to it - 17/05/2010 01:50:27 PM 808 Views
There is none. - 17/05/2010 07:09:59 PM 808 Views
Uhhh? - 17/05/2010 08:45:15 PM 721 Views
... - 17/05/2010 11:08:05 PM 850 Views
Re: ... - 18/05/2010 05:25:33 AM 801 Views
Seriously, are you kidding? [EDIT] - 18/05/2010 06:06:01 AM 774 Views
*sigh* - 18/05/2010 12:30:43 PM 848 Views
So, you're not kidding. - 18/05/2010 09:12:27 PM 756 Views
Re: So, you're not kidding. - 18/05/2010 10:25:19 PM 785 Views
Re: So, you're not kidding. - 19/05/2010 12:41:09 AM 889 Views
So, Tsutama... - 19/05/2010 05:29:56 PM 921 Views
Ugh. - 20/05/2010 04:05:43 AM 694 Views
WTF? - 20/05/2010 05:25:42 PM 760 Views
F-T is right - 19/05/2010 12:32:33 AM 867 Views
On the minority thing... - 18/05/2010 04:26:15 PM 807 Views
That's exactly the problem. - 18/05/2010 08:51:45 PM 690 Views
There is no rewriting... - 18/05/2010 08:57:50 PM 674 Views
Re: There is no rewriting... - 18/05/2010 09:21:31 PM 785 Views
Really do you have a quote supporting the fact that there has never been a FD supported by a Red? - 18/05/2010 09:39:31 PM 803 Views
Of course..., I'll provide it as soon as you prove you're not a Nazi serial child rapist. - 18/05/2010 10:06:23 PM 672 Views
why so pissy? - 19/05/2010 03:34:22 PM 813 Views
Sorry. - 20/05/2010 04:16:43 AM 792 Views
Re: Sorry. - 20/05/2010 08:19:13 AM 659 Views
Re: Sorry. - 20/05/2010 08:33:54 AM 832 Views
Re: Sorry. - 20/05/2010 01:26:47 PM 675 Views
Interesting. - 20/05/2010 07:34:45 PM 750 Views
Re: Interesting. - 21/05/2010 05:07:07 AM 761 Views
Re: Interesting. - 21/05/2010 06:28:05 AM 696 Views
LOL - 21/05/2010 02:50:29 PM 723 Views
... - 21/05/2010 08:23:08 PM 906 Views
There may be one explanation... - 13/05/2010 10:04:46 PM 742 Views
That doesn't make sense. - 13/05/2010 10:54:53 PM 858 Views
it was about more than just male channelers - 18/05/2010 09:50:14 PM 834 Views
Yes, that's true. - 18/05/2010 10:07:22 PM 866 Views
I'm also certain the majority of the Red had no clue/involvement - 20/05/2010 10:24:54 PM 744 Views
That's also true. - 20/05/2010 10:29:11 PM 748 Views
Okay I'm leaving you alone ... you clearly don't want to continue - 20/05/2010 10:31:01 PM 759 Views
Why are they lumped together? - 12/05/2010 05:53:51 AM 989 Views
for practical purposes - 12/05/2010 04:50:48 PM 710 Views
AS shrunk after stilling; Siuan and Leane became huge. - 12/05/2010 10:50:50 PM 741 Views
Re: AS shrunk after stilling; Siuan and Leane became huge. - 12/05/2010 11:05:17 PM 854 Views
No, I don't think so - 13/05/2010 05:10:03 AM 681 Views
Let's just say we disagree. - 17/05/2010 11:15:31 PM 823 Views
Bah! - 18/05/2010 04:33:40 PM 759 Views
Pfft - 18/05/2010 05:31:16 PM 770 Views
You don't have to intimidate people to manipulate them. - 19/05/2010 12:46:02 AM 617 Views

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