Since RJ said that one should read closely, I want to analyse Asmo's last moments in TFoH in detail:
"He pulled open a small door, intending to find his way to the pantry. There should be some decent wine. One step, and he stopped, the blood draining from his face. “You? No!” The word still hung in the air when death took him."
After Asmo went for a short while (maybe at least one minute, considering all his thoughts and that he was without any hurry) leaving Mat & Aviendha at the fountain in the garden, he comes to a wall in front of him with a long balefire gash and finally, after maybe at least another minute, reaches a closed small door, which leads to an unknown location. He pulls the door open, which takes him probably at least one second. When he opens the door, he doesn't immediately see his killer, though. He still thinks about wine. Then Asmo takes one step into the room/corridor behind the door. This probably also takes at least one second. Then Asmo suddenly stops, because he surprisingly sees not too far away a person he didn't expect there, recognizes this person & becomes immediately scared. To realize all this probably also takes at least one second for Asmo. Either the person was hidden behind the door, so that Asmo couldn't already see the person, when he opened the door, or the person suddenly appeared before him in this moment (like e.g. Slayer does). Then Asmo addresses the killer with the question "you?", which probably takes at least another second. Then the killer uses a quick weapon (either a prepared OP weave, an aimed crossbow or knife) to kill Asmo in likely one second, so that Asmo can only say "no!", when he sees the weapon hitting him, because only the word "no!" still hung in the air, when death took him. There are no other witnesses around and Asmo's body was either destroyed by a OP weave or the killer brought it away. Another detail is that Asmo apparently had his harp in his hands oder under his arm, which might have made it a bit more difficult for him to react quickly to counter an attack (e.g. if he needs his hands to perform a OP weave).
Since Asmo spent some minutes with Mat and Aviendha before he left them, it's possible that the killer spied on Asmo for some time (like Rand watches Asmo playing the harp at the fountain from his window in the first floor), and figured where he would probably go. Thus, the killer might have been able to enter the room/corridor before Asmo at the moment, when Asmo makes his step into the room (especially if the killer knows the Caemlyn palace very well like e.g. Luc probably does).
I would definitely say that the killer was better prepared to quickly fight/kill someone than Asmo was, since Asmo was without any hurry, had idle thoughts before, was then suddenly surprised, scared and had his harp in the hands to hinder him a bit.
This is my basic interpretation of the scene and its timing. Agreements or disagreements?
"He pulled open a small door, intending to find his way to the pantry. There should be some decent wine. One step, and he stopped, the blood draining from his face. “You? No!” The word still hung in the air when death took him."
After Asmo went for a short while (maybe at least one minute, considering all his thoughts and that he was without any hurry) leaving Mat & Aviendha at the fountain in the garden, he comes to a wall in front of him with a long balefire gash and finally, after maybe at least another minute, reaches a closed small door, which leads to an unknown location. He pulls the door open, which takes him probably at least one second. When he opens the door, he doesn't immediately see his killer, though. He still thinks about wine. Then Asmo takes one step into the room/corridor behind the door. This probably also takes at least one second. Then Asmo suddenly stops, because he surprisingly sees not too far away a person he didn't expect there, recognizes this person & becomes immediately scared. To realize all this probably also takes at least one second for Asmo. Either the person was hidden behind the door, so that Asmo couldn't already see the person, when he opened the door, or the person suddenly appeared before him in this moment (like e.g. Slayer does). Then Asmo addresses the killer with the question "you?", which probably takes at least another second. Then the killer uses a quick weapon (either a prepared OP weave, an aimed crossbow or knife) to kill Asmo in likely one second, so that Asmo can only say "no!", when he sees the weapon hitting him, because only the word "no!" still hung in the air, when death took him. There are no other witnesses around and Asmo's body was either destroyed by a OP weave or the killer brought it away. Another detail is that Asmo apparently had his harp in his hands oder under his arm, which might have made it a bit more difficult for him to react quickly to counter an attack (e.g. if he needs his hands to perform a OP weave).
Since Asmo spent some minutes with Mat and Aviendha before he left them, it's possible that the killer spied on Asmo for some time (like Rand watches Asmo playing the harp at the fountain from his window in the first floor), and figured where he would probably go. Thus, the killer might have been able to enter the room/corridor before Asmo at the moment, when Asmo makes his step into the room (especially if the killer knows the Caemlyn palace very well like e.g. Luc probably does).
I would definitely say that the killer was better prepared to quickly fight/kill someone than Asmo was, since Asmo was without any hurry, had idle thoughts before, was then suddenly surprised, scared and had his harp in the hands to hinder him a bit.
This is my basic interpretation of the scene and its timing. Agreements or disagreements?
This message last edited by Etzel on 27/05/2010 at 12:43:30 PM
An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds
- 27/05/2010 12:12:50 PM
2710 Views
I hate to say it, as I love this mystery....
- 27/05/2010 03:01:08 PM
1419 Views
I have a theory on the killer that doesn't involve Slayer...
- 28/05/2010 03:41:23 AM
1221 Views
In addition to Etzel's comments
- 28/05/2010 09:08:45 PM
1085 Views
I'm pretty sure the Myrdraal that killed Caradin's family was a Proto-version of SH *NM*
- 28/05/2010 09:56:58 PM
690 Views
Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin *NM*
- 29/05/2010 04:40:15 PM
668 Views
Re: Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin
- 29/05/2010 09:16:01 PM
1224 Views
Far-fetched, IMO
- 27/05/2010 04:01:05 PM
1533 Views
I don't want Slayer to be the killer
- 27/05/2010 04:33:06 PM
1216 Views
The way you twist things, it certainly seems so!
- 27/05/2010 05:07:22 PM
1327 Views
Bah, hogwash!
- 27/05/2010 05:17:37 PM
1178 Views
Re: Bah, hogwash!
- 27/05/2010 08:14:16 PM
1205 Views
The point is...
- 28/05/2010 08:38:49 AM
1257 Views
Yes, but Fain is a far cry from your average non-channeler
- 28/05/2010 12:01:44 PM
1305 Views
As is Slayer
- 28/05/2010 12:25:07 PM
1174 Views
There is no evidence of this at all
- 28/05/2010 12:32:37 PM
1134 Views
Yeah, the evil guys don't manage to harm the good guys
- 28/05/2010 12:38:57 PM
1115 Views
You always twist the quotes to make them say what Jordan didn't intend to say....
- 28/05/2010 02:20:09 PM
1207 Views
None of this explains how Slayer had opportunity that others didn't
- 27/05/2010 05:12:48 PM
1360 Views
We often see...
- 27/05/2010 05:33:19 PM
1204 Views
I just keep coming back to Slayer needs wild explanations while Graendal is more obvious
- 27/05/2010 05:52:13 PM
1289 Views
Indeed
- 28/05/2010 08:39:14 AM
1148 Views
Well...
- 28/05/2010 10:19:46 AM
1223 Views
Re: Well...
- 28/05/2010 12:20:15 PM
1211 Views
I adressed the points regarding the Fain-comparsion above
- 28/05/2010 12:35:08 PM
1145 Views
your Slayer theory is ridiculously complex!
- 28/05/2010 12:37:08 PM
1195 Views
It just requires to combine some clues from the first 5 books & some common sense
- 28/05/2010 12:44:10 PM
1156 Views
Re: Well...
- 28/05/2010 02:27:40 PM
1325 Views
No...
- 28/05/2010 03:04:41 PM
1222 Views
let's try this another way
- 28/05/2010 03:14:07 PM
1210 Views
The main problem with Graendal is...
- 28/05/2010 05:31:09 PM
1137 Views
Re: The main problem with Graendal is...
- 28/05/2010 09:20:27 PM
1280 Views
my first thought was it was Sammael or Graendal. Come LoC it was clear to me that it was Graendal.
- 28/05/2010 09:44:38 PM
1349 Views
RJ used the expression...
- 29/05/2010 08:17:08 AM
1140 Views
be careful ... your stretching far enough you might hurt yourself
- 29/05/2010 01:12:29 PM
1242 Views
- 29/05/2010 01:12:29 PM
1242 Views
Re: I don't want Slayer to be the killer
- 27/05/2010 07:47:40 PM
1196 Views
Couple of questions
- 27/05/2010 09:53:05 PM
1204 Views
Be'lal managed to get out NO!
- 27/05/2010 10:08:33 PM
1049 Views
Hmmm
- 27/05/2010 10:27:55 PM
1176 Views
I don't think you can actually cut BF weaves
- 27/05/2010 10:45:34 PM
1084 Views
Hmmm I wonder about that.
- 27/05/2010 10:58:46 PM
1153 Views
I think it would be impossible for someone to react that quickly
- 27/05/2010 11:13:01 PM
1242 Views
Of course you do. Trying to deny it is just silly. Everyone knows your bias. *NM*
- 27/05/2010 08:43:18 PM
604 Views
No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too
- 27/05/2010 09:08:48 PM
1193 Views
Re: No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too
- 28/05/2010 08:25:46 AM
1172 Views
But look...
- 28/05/2010 09:01:12 AM
1195 Views
if there are clues in TFoH I find it hard to believe that Slayer is involved
- 28/05/2010 12:29:40 PM
1090 Views
The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course
- 28/05/2010 12:32:13 PM
1162 Views
Re: The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course
- 28/05/2010 12:35:22 PM
1180 Views
RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM*
- 28/05/2010 12:40:23 PM
1213 Views
Re: RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM*
- 28/05/2010 12:52:30 PM
1095 Views
Yeah, I know. *NM*
- 28/05/2010 02:51:32 PM
1162 Views
Yet Slayer is no where to be seen between his vanishing after TSR and the start of WH
- 28/05/2010 03:09:44 PM
1172 Views
???
- 28/05/2010 02:19:17 PM
1132 Views
Of course RJ implied that. You should read his quotes about Asmo! *NM*
- 28/05/2010 02:52:32 PM
1164 Views
Here is what RJ said EDIT
- 28/05/2010 03:29:19 PM
935 Views
Indeed
- 28/05/2010 05:18:35 PM
1086 Views
Re: Indeed
- 28/05/2010 05:26:38 PM
1062 Views
But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM*
- 28/05/2010 05:33:02 PM
1102 Views
Re: But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM*
- 28/05/2010 07:05:27 PM
1083 Views
Re: Far-fetched, IMO
- 02/06/2010 07:34:58 PM
1276 Views
Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? *NM*
- 02/06/2010 11:13:04 PM
728 Views
Re: Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot?
- 19/06/2010 12:59:54 AM
982 Views
Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken
- 19/06/2010 03:30:37 AM
1178 Views
Re: Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken
- 24/06/2010 09:03:18 AM
1412 Views
The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book
- 26/06/2010 02:32:26 PM
889 Views
Re: The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book
- 01/07/2010 10:13:53 PM
1306 Views
Lanfear killed Asmo.....
- 28/05/2010 05:05:55 AM
1090 Views
Doesn't make sense
- 28/05/2010 11:09:14 AM
1113 Views
Sorry, Lanfear did it.....
- 29/05/2010 03:47:44 AM
1048 Views
Considering that RJ didn't even necessarily want to reveal it, it was pretty random, yeah. *NM*
- 29/05/2010 08:25:54 AM
682 Views
Death is Moridin "when death took him"; need I say more
*NM*
- 28/05/2010 10:07:14 AM
733 Views
*NM*
- 28/05/2010 10:07:14 AM
733 Views
There is a quote that refutes this...
- 28/05/2010 10:22:12 AM
1161 Views
He could have recognized Moridan.....due to the True Power in his eyes.
- 29/05/2010 03:49:49 AM
1118 Views
No other Forsaken immediately recognizes Moridin as Ishy because of the saa. *NM*
- 29/05/2010 08:26:44 AM
684 Views
RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever
- 28/05/2010 08:55:01 PM
1188 Views
Re: RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever *NM*
- 28/05/2010 09:24:41 PM
776 Views
I think I found an RJ quote that kills the Slayer theory
- 29/05/2010 01:57:20 PM
1088 Views
If Slayer is actually the killer...
- 29/05/2010 02:20:32 PM
1134 Views
Please, RJ would do as he always had and immediately RAFOd a question like that
- 29/05/2010 02:26:10 PM
1109 Views
Well, I don't think so.
- 29/05/2010 02:43:28 PM
1140 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer.
- 06/06/2010 05:44:05 AM
994 Views
If Slayer never met Asmo in the books he could not have killed him
- 06/06/2010 12:46:40 PM
994 Views
- 06/06/2010 12:46:40 PM
994 Views
But Slayer could have met Asmo, when he was killed.. *NM*
- 06/06/2010 01:06:01 PM
1054 Views
Directly contradicts what RJ said "they did not meet in the books"
- 06/06/2010 02:51:50 PM
1020 Views
Not "before" the murder. *NM*
- 06/06/2010 06:03:34 PM
1054 Views
Re: Not "before" the murder. *NM*
- 06/06/2010 10:25:16 PM
1007 Views
He answers the question, if they met "before" the murder. *NM*
- 07/06/2010 07:18:50 AM
718 Views
not if it didn't happen in the books
- 07/06/2010 12:08:34 PM
956 Views
I think Asmo's killer was as surprised as he.
- 29/05/2010 09:26:03 PM
1125 Views
That's what I've always thought as well.
- 29/05/2010 10:06:56 PM
1048 Views
You know, there's no direct proof suggesting that Asmo's killer was "surprised".....
- 01/06/2010 04:04:56 AM
1040 Views
except the Author said it was a murder of opportunity
- 01/06/2010 11:13:14 PM
1067 Views
That is simply false.
- 02/06/2010 10:00:27 AM
1143 Views
RJ stated it was a murder of opportunity ... I never said "only"
- 02/06/2010 11:49:23 AM
1210 Views
Of course, it is false
- 02/06/2010 12:13:11 PM
1125 Views
Here are the quotes
- 02/06/2010 12:39:29 PM
1062 Views
As said, those quotes simply don't support that the murder was basically just an unplanned accident. *NM*
- 02/06/2010 02:14:29 PM
712 Views
I disagree. It's pretty much black and white that the opportunity/timing is the key factor to
- 02/06/2010 02:39:03 PM
961 Views
Actually I like it because it fits Slayer better than Graendal, as pointed out.
*NM*
- 02/06/2010 02:51:24 PM
579 Views
*NM*
- 02/06/2010 02:51:24 PM
579 Views
that makes no sense at all *NM*
- 02/06/2010 02:53:28 PM
770 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer.
- 06/06/2010 05:47:13 AM
1130 Views
Well...
- 06/06/2010 10:46:13 AM
1122 Views
Logic
- 06/06/2010 02:53:27 PM
1079 Views
You're falling into Etzelian logic there...
- 06/06/2010 03:25:30 PM
1080 Views
You're falling into Etzelian logic there...
- 06/06/2010 03:25:30 PM
1080 Views
I'm just being a smartass
*NM*
- 06/06/2010 03:36:00 PM
740 Views
*NM*
- 06/06/2010 03:36:00 PM
740 Views
That's not anyone's logic, this argument is simply utter nonsense.
*NM*
- 07/06/2010 12:08:05 PM
1129 Views
*NM*
- 07/06/2010 12:08:05 PM
1129 Views
just like thinking Slayer was the killer is
- 07/06/2010 12:09:34 PM
1071 Views
- 07/06/2010 12:09:34 PM
1071 Views
Yeah...
- 07/06/2010 12:21:31 PM
1180 Views
thinking the top assassin killed someone when it's been stated over and over
- 07/06/2010 12:56:48 PM
1126 Views
Those quotes pretty much show that Graendal is careful...
*NM*
- 07/06/2010 01:03:26 PM
1146 Views
*NM*
- 07/06/2010 01:03:26 PM
1146 Views
No they show that she is deliberate!
- 07/06/2010 01:12:29 PM
1154 Views
That are just semantics
- 07/06/2010 01:36:12 PM
1224 Views
and you think it's obvious that Slayer was the premier Shadow assassin prior to WH?
- 07/06/2010 02:06:47 PM
1101 Views
As I explained you several times, I can see why RJ thought it is obvious, yes...
- 07/06/2010 02:17:01 PM
1077 Views
Why wouldn't Graendal head to Caemlyn at that point?
- 07/06/2010 02:36:24 PM
1147 Views
And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin?
- 07/06/2010 02:54:33 PM
1191 Views
- 07/06/2010 02:54:33 PM
1191 Views
Re: And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin?
- 07/06/2010 03:01:14 PM
1156 Views
- 07/06/2010 03:01:14 PM
1156 Views
You should re-read the scene where Moghedien tells Nynaeve about it...
- 07/06/2010 03:12:55 PM
1222 Views
That's a different thing than Moghedien saying the plan was canceled
- 07/06/2010 03:15:32 PM
1231 Views
That is essentially what Moghedien said.
- 07/06/2010 03:33:35 PM
983 Views
um no it's not
- 07/06/2010 04:17:04 PM
1071 Views
It's told after that...
- 07/06/2010 04:46:31 PM
1037 Views
No it doesn't. It tells us that Rahvin, just like all the others had a side plan in place
- 07/06/2010 04:55:43 PM
1186 Views
Yeah...
- 07/06/2010 05:17:59 PM
1114 Views
Funny I feel the same way you do ...
- 07/06/2010 05:25:48 PM
1109 Views
Ah, whatever...
- 07/06/2010 05:35:22 PM
1036 Views
- 07/06/2010 05:35:22 PM
1036 Views
We are on the exact same page
- 07/06/2010 05:42:48 PM
1090 Views
