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and you think it's obvious that Slayer was the premier Shadow assassin prior to WH? darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 07/06/2010 02:06:47 PM
In any case, nothing suggested before LoC that Graendal would be such idiotic to stroll through the Caemlyn Palace without any mask.

As usual, you cite scenes from the books after TFoH to prove the idea that Graendal must be the killer (though even those scenes don't really support that; as we e.g. see with Cyndane & Moghedien, Graendal would rather have used her favourite weapon Compulsion on Asmo, than immediately kill him).


please show me a single quote from prior to tFoH that make that "intuitively obvious" .... the entire Slayer theory is based on what we learn in WH! All we really know about Slayer before WH is that he can enter TAR in the flesh and is probably Isam/Luc conglomerate that likes to kill wolves in TAR for fun.

Nearly 100% of his activities are anonymous and in TAR, putside of his little adventures in the TR. And even there he certainly doesn't come across as an Assassin, more like a warrior.

Graendal had a very good reason to be in Caemlyn... she was part of the plot to be there in the first place. Aside from seeing her discuss that on screen, Moghedien tells us just prior to the events that Graendal at least would be in Caemlyn as part of that plot, reiterating for us just a few chapters before!

Graendal didn't use Compulsion because she wasn't about to keep him. He knew where she was which is why she balefired him. Total murder of opportunity. Graendal saw him and took the one shot she figured she'd have.

She Compelled Moghedien and Cyndane because she wanted information out of them and they were in a safe location where she could spend the necessary time interrogating them properly. With Asmo, she was in enemy territory, faced with a powerful Channeler with only seconds to react. Bam BF!
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds Etzel - 27/05/2010 12:12:50 PM 2603 Views
I hate to say it, as I love this mystery.... GateKeeper - 27/05/2010 03:01:08 PM 1345 Views
Surely, there can never be enough Asmo threads! *NM* Etzel - 27/05/2010 04:18:06 PM 730 Views
I have a theory on the killer that doesn't involve Slayer... FanEditor10 - 28/05/2010 03:41:23 AM 1148 Views
It's not really obvious... Etzel - 28/05/2010 09:08:27 AM 1086 Views
In addition to Etzel's comments newyorkersedai - 28/05/2010 09:08:45 PM 999 Views
I'm pretty sure the Myrdraal that killed Caradin's family was a Proto-version of SH *NM* darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 09:56:58 PM 653 Views
Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin *NM* newyorkersedai - 29/05/2010 04:40:15 PM 617 Views
Re: Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 09:16:01 PM 1149 Views
Far-fetched, IMO DomA - 27/05/2010 04:01:05 PM 1442 Views
very well said *NM* darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 04:19:10 PM 751 Views
I don't want Slayer to be the killer Etzel - 27/05/2010 04:33:06 PM 1133 Views
The way you twist things, it certainly seems so! fionwe1987 - 27/05/2010 05:07:22 PM 1230 Views
Bah, hogwash! Etzel - 27/05/2010 05:17:37 PM 1099 Views
Re: Bah, hogwash! DomA - 27/05/2010 08:14:16 PM 1140 Views
The point is... Etzel - 28/05/2010 08:38:49 AM 1175 Views
Yes, but Fain is a far cry from your average non-channeler darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:01:44 PM 1227 Views
As is Slayer Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:25:07 PM 1081 Views
There is no evidence of this at all darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:32:37 PM 1060 Views
Yeah, the evil guys don't manage to harm the good guys Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:38:57 PM 1035 Views
so far we've seen Slayer kill a sleeping guy and his wife darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:45:14 PM 1059 Views
I disagree. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:50:02 PM 1174 Views
You always twist the quotes to make them say what Jordan didn't intend to say.... DomA - 28/05/2010 02:20:09 PM 1128 Views
I think this is your interpretation Etzel - 28/05/2010 02:50:14 PM 1073 Views
Yeah right... fionwe1987 - 27/05/2010 08:35:35 PM 1161 Views
See my replies above. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 08:40:42 AM 954 Views
Re: Bah, hogwash! Sidious - 28/05/2010 08:28:16 AM 952 Views
See my repy to DomA. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 08:39:15 AM 923 Views
None of this explains how Slayer had opportunity that others didn't darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 05:12:48 PM 1275 Views
We often see... Etzel - 27/05/2010 05:33:19 PM 1132 Views
I just keep coming back to Slayer needs wild explanations while Graendal is more obvious darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 05:52:13 PM 1209 Views
Ok, as we said in the other thread, let's RAFO! *NM* Etzel - 27/05/2010 05:57:49 PM 1224 Views
Agreed *NM* darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 06:03:51 PM 678 Views
Indeed Sidious - 28/05/2010 08:39:14 AM 1063 Views
Well... Etzel - 28/05/2010 10:19:46 AM 1121 Views
Re: Well... darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:20:15 PM 1127 Views
I adressed the points regarding the Fain-comparsion above Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:35:08 PM 1068 Views
your Slayer theory is ridiculously complex! darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:37:08 PM 1117 Views
It just requires to combine some clues from the first 5 books & some common sense Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:44:10 PM 1059 Views
common sense? darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:51:25 PM 1073 Views
See my posts above. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 02:50:56 PM 1089 Views
Re: Well... Sidious - 28/05/2010 02:27:40 PM 1233 Views
No... Etzel - 28/05/2010 03:04:41 PM 1151 Views
let's try this another way darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 03:14:07 PM 1142 Views
The main problem with Graendal is... Etzel - 28/05/2010 05:31:09 PM 1064 Views
Graendal has a pretty significant role in TFoH darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 06:54:39 PM 1134 Views
Re: The main problem with Graendal is... DomA - 28/05/2010 09:20:27 PM 1204 Views
my first thought was it was Sammael or Graendal. Come LoC it was clear to me that it was Graendal. darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 09:44:38 PM 1265 Views
RJ used the expression... Etzel - 29/05/2010 08:17:08 AM 1047 Views
be careful ... your stretching far enough you might hurt yourself darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 01:12:29 PM 1155 Views
Re: No... Sidious - 28/05/2010 03:38:49 PM 1026 Views
Re: I don't want Slayer to be the killer DomA - 27/05/2010 07:47:40 PM 1098 Views
Couple of questions scalius - 27/05/2010 09:53:05 PM 1125 Views
Be'lal managed to get out NO! darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 10:08:33 PM 976 Views
Hmmm scalius - 27/05/2010 10:27:55 PM 1100 Views
Re: Hmmm RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 10:34:30 PM 991 Views
I don't think you can actually cut BF weaves darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 10:45:34 PM 1014 Views
Hmmm I wonder about that. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 10:58:46 PM 1067 Views
I think it would be impossible for someone to react that quickly darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 11:13:01 PM 1164 Views
We've seen it done. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/05/2010 06:32:08 PM 1013 Views
Not the same thing darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 07:00:13 PM 990 Views
Re: Couple of questions DomA - 28/05/2010 03:29:29 PM 1157 Views
As said... Etzel - 28/05/2010 08:36:28 AM 1105 Views
Of course you do. Trying to deny it is just silly. Everyone knows your bias. *NM* Tom - 27/05/2010 08:43:18 PM 566 Views
No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too Etzel - 27/05/2010 09:08:48 PM 1117 Views
Re: No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too Sidious - 28/05/2010 08:25:46 AM 1102 Views
But look... Etzel - 28/05/2010 09:01:12 AM 1124 Views
if there are clues in TFoH I find it hard to believe that Slayer is involved darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:29:40 PM 1023 Views
The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:32:13 PM 1092 Views
Re: The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:35:22 PM 1096 Views
RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:40:23 PM 1149 Views
Re: RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM* darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:52:30 PM 1011 Views
Yeah, I know. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 02:51:32 PM 1087 Views
Yet Slayer is no where to be seen between his vanishing after TSR and the start of WH darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 03:09:44 PM 1099 Views
??? Sidious - 28/05/2010 02:19:17 PM 1059 Views
Of course RJ implied that. You should read his quotes about Asmo! *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 02:52:32 PM 1081 Views
Here is what RJ said EDIT darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 03:29:19 PM 856 Views
Indeed Etzel - 28/05/2010 05:18:35 PM 1017 Views
Re: Indeed darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 05:26:38 PM 986 Views
But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 05:33:02 PM 1034 Views
Re: But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM* darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 07:05:27 PM 1009 Views
LOL!! Sidious - 28/05/2010 03:29:35 PM 825 Views
Too much? Etzel - 28/05/2010 05:16:44 PM 1081 Views
Re: Far-fetched, IMO saidarisnowtainted - 02/06/2010 07:34:58 PM 1202 Views
Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? *NM* darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 11:13:04 PM 686 Views
Re: Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? saidarisnowtainted - 19/06/2010 12:59:54 AM 908 Views
Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken darius_sedai - 19/06/2010 03:30:37 AM 1111 Views
Re: Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken saidarisnowtainted - 24/06/2010 09:03:18 AM 1313 Views
The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book darius_sedai - 26/06/2010 02:32:26 PM 820 Views
Re: The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book saidarisnowtainted - 01/07/2010 10:13:53 PM 1242 Views
Re: An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 06:19:18 PM 1033 Views
Re: An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds DomA - 27/05/2010 09:16:21 PM 1046 Views
Lanfear killed Asmo..... trzaska2000 - 28/05/2010 05:05:55 AM 1005 Views
Doesn't make sense Etzel - 28/05/2010 11:09:14 AM 1048 Views
Sorry, Lanfear did it..... trzaska2000 - 29/05/2010 03:47:44 AM 977 Views
Considering that RJ didn't even necessarily want to reveal it, it was pretty random, yeah. *NM* Etzel - 29/05/2010 08:25:54 AM 645 Views
Death is Moridin "when death took him"; need I say more *NM* Knightscape - 28/05/2010 10:07:14 AM 687 Views
There is a quote that refutes this... Etzel - 28/05/2010 10:22:12 AM 1089 Views
He could have recognized Moridan.....due to the True Power in his eyes. trzaska2000 - 29/05/2010 03:49:49 AM 1035 Views
No other Forsaken immediately recognizes Moridin as Ishy because of the saa. *NM* Etzel - 29/05/2010 08:26:44 AM 651 Views
RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever newyorkersedai - 28/05/2010 08:55:01 PM 1113 Views
Re: RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever *NM* newyorkersedai - 28/05/2010 09:24:41 PM 741 Views
I think I found an RJ quote that kills the Slayer theory darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 01:57:20 PM 994 Views
If Slayer is actually the killer... Etzel - 29/05/2010 02:20:32 PM 1070 Views
Please, RJ would do as he always had and immediately RAFOd a question like that darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 02:26:10 PM 1038 Views
Well, I don't think so. Etzel - 29/05/2010 02:43:28 PM 1057 Views
yet he never gave an answer like this one darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 02:57:35 PM 1126 Views
Again... Etzel - 29/05/2010 03:09:06 PM 1123 Views
Taking things NO darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 03:12:24 PM 1095 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer. FanEditor10 - 06/06/2010 05:44:05 AM 931 Views
If Slayer never met Asmo in the books he could not have killed him darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 12:46:40 PM 934 Views
But Slayer could have met Asmo, when he was killed.. *NM* Etzel - 06/06/2010 01:06:01 PM 988 Views
Directly contradicts what RJ said "they did not meet in the books" darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 02:51:50 PM 942 Views
Not "before" the murder. *NM* Etzel - 06/06/2010 06:03:34 PM 985 Views
Re: Not "before" the murder. *NM* darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 10:25:16 PM 943 Views
He answers the question, if they met "before" the murder. *NM* Etzel - 07/06/2010 07:18:50 AM 675 Views
not if it didn't happen in the books darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 12:08:34 PM 877 Views
I'm relieved then... Etzel - 07/06/2010 12:13:58 PM 883 Views
it's nearly as simplistic as knowing Graendal did it darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 12:48:42 PM 1016 Views
Compilation of the clues I could find on Slayer and Graendal darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 04:26:58 PM 1118 Views
I think Asmo's killer was as surprised as he. TaskmasterJack - 29/05/2010 09:26:03 PM 1058 Views
That's what I've always thought as well. Seriana Sedai - 29/05/2010 10:06:56 PM 983 Views
That's always been my theory too Sidious - 29/05/2010 10:18:30 PM 1087 Views
*nods* darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 11:23:18 PM 1103 Views
Re: That's always been my theory too Seriana Sedai - 30/05/2010 07:35:50 AM 1018 Views
You know, there's no direct proof suggesting that Asmo's killer was "surprised"..... trzaska2000 - 01/06/2010 04:04:56 AM 968 Views
That's why I said "I think" and offered my opinion. TaskmasterJack - 01/06/2010 09:46:09 PM 1018 Views
except the Author said it was a murder of opportunity darius_sedai - 01/06/2010 11:13:14 PM 1003 Views
That is simply false. Etzel - 02/06/2010 10:00:27 AM 1062 Views
RJ stated it was a murder of opportunity ... I never said "only" darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 11:49:23 AM 1112 Views
Of course, it is false Etzel - 02/06/2010 12:13:11 PM 1033 Views
Here are the quotes darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 12:39:29 PM 962 Views
As said, those quotes simply don't support that the murder was basically just an unplanned accident. *NM* Etzel - 02/06/2010 02:14:29 PM 673 Views
I disagree. It's pretty much black and white that the opportunity/timing is the key factor to darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 02:39:03 PM 897 Views
Actually I like it because it fits Slayer better than Graendal, as pointed out. *NM* Etzel - 02/06/2010 02:51:24 PM 533 Views
that makes no sense at all *NM* darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 02:53:28 PM 725 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer. FanEditor10 - 06/06/2010 05:47:13 AM 1063 Views
Well... Etzel - 06/06/2010 10:46:13 AM 1057 Views
Logic darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 02:53:27 PM 1019 Views
You're falling into Etzelian logic there... DomA - 06/06/2010 03:25:30 PM 1013 Views
I'm just being a smartass *NM* darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 03:36:00 PM 698 Views
It's good that Etzel sticks to his guns Sidious - 06/06/2010 04:42:01 PM 1121 Views
OMG, Taim and Mesaana were getting it on in the pantry darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 09:49:57 PM 983 Views
That reminds me... Fanatic-Templar - 19/06/2010 04:46:58 AM 1006 Views
That's not anyone's logic, this argument is simply utter nonsense. *NM* Etzel - 07/06/2010 12:08:05 PM 1051 Views
just like thinking Slayer was the killer is darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 12:09:34 PM 1001 Views
Yeah... Etzel - 07/06/2010 12:21:31 PM 1090 Views
thinking the top assassin killed someone when it's been stated over and over darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 12:56:48 PM 1044 Views
Those quotes pretty much show that Graendal is careful... *NM* Etzel - 07/06/2010 01:03:26 PM 1017 Views
No they show that she is deliberate! darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 01:12:29 PM 1073 Views
That are just semantics Etzel - 07/06/2010 01:36:12 PM 1148 Views
and you think it's obvious that Slayer was the premier Shadow assassin prior to WH? darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 02:06:47 PM 1029 Views
As I explained you several times, I can see why RJ thought it is obvious, yes... Etzel - 07/06/2010 02:17:01 PM 996 Views
Why wouldn't Graendal head to Caemlyn at that point? darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 02:36:24 PM 1075 Views
And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin? Etzel - 07/06/2010 02:54:33 PM 1122 Views
Re: And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin? darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 03:01:14 PM 1082 Views
You should re-read the scene where Moghedien tells Nynaeve about it... Etzel - 07/06/2010 03:12:55 PM 1076 Views
That's a different thing than Moghedien saying the plan was canceled darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 03:15:32 PM 1163 Views
That is essentially what Moghedien said. Etzel - 07/06/2010 03:33:35 PM 912 Views
um no it's not darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 04:17:04 PM 1003 Views
It's told after that... Etzel - 07/06/2010 04:46:31 PM 963 Views
No it doesn't. It tells us that Rahvin, just like all the others had a side plan in place darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 04:55:43 PM 1114 Views
Yeah... Etzel - 07/06/2010 05:17:59 PM 1049 Views
Funny I feel the same way you do ... darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 05:25:48 PM 1041 Views
Ah, whatever... Etzel - 07/06/2010 05:35:22 PM 966 Views
We are on the exact same page darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 05:42:48 PM 1008 Views
Re: We are on the exact same page Sidious - 07/06/2010 05:52:37 PM 1089 Views
LMAO darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 06:07:16 PM 1470 Views
I promised Etzel long ago... Fanatic-Templar - 19/06/2010 04:49:11 AM 1025 Views
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