Focusing strictly on the One Power Strength questions and answers...
9. Question--In [LoC; 30, To Heal Again - 617] Siuan, after being healed, says to Nynaeve that ‘if she could heal her to half of what she was’ she would be better off. This has led to the perception that Siuan and Leane are less than half their original strength. Yet in [CoT; 19, Surprises – 459] we find out that both women stand several steps above the Aes Sedai minimum strength. This seems problematic—the range of Aes Sedai strength does not appear to be so great as to allow for this. So the question is, did Siuan and Leane in fact lose such a large amount of strength as they appear to have?
Maria Answers--Yes, they did lose a large amount of strength. The range of strength is greater than you think, I believe. At the beginning, Siuan was near the top (and Leane close behind); if she were half the strength she used to be, she’d be in the middle. Instead, she’s somewhere in the lower half, but not absolute rock bottom, nor nearly as low as Daigian Moseneillin.
...
20. Question--Is strength in the power evenly distributed? Would on a scale of one to one hundred the most channelers be on the 50 mark? (within a gender, of course).
Maria Answers--Jim described it as a bell curve, with most channelers in the middle.
21. Question--Of the really strong channelers we know the nature to, all but one have been sparkers. This has led to the belief that sparkers are on average stronger than learners. Is this belief justified?
Maria Answers--No. “Having been born with the inherent spark apparently is not an indicator of strength. There are as many with weak potential who will channel whether they are taught or not as there are of great potential” (from Jim’s notes). The stronger ones just get more attention.
22. Question--Do stronger sparkers stand a better chance of surviving touching the Source unaided?
Maria Answers--It depends on what you mean by “stronger” sparkers. If you mean strength in the One Power, not really. If you mean strength of will or character, perhaps. Jim said of touching the One Power unaided: “if you have not learned some sort of rough control, conscious or not, you will die screaming and writhing in agony.”
The most earth shattering revelation, in my opinion, is Maria's answer to question 20. For YEARS, and it has been years for many of us, we've debated how the curve looked.
This confirms that the bell curve peaks at 50 on a scale of 0 to 100. This means we need to redo ALL of our one power strength estimates.
For example, Moiraine must have 50+ strength, putting people like Elayne/Aviendha/Egwene somewhere around 60+
This also means we have to throw out previous shielding theories (as a measure of one power strength) and create new models for strength based on shielding.
For example, Rand knows that no three regular AS can shield him, but he might be in trouble if one was (I forget which forsaken he names). Anyway, my point is that 3 average Aes Sedai are going to average at least 150 power. Yet, Rand knows 150 power against his sub-100 power will never defeat him. I say sub-100 because when Rand makes the comment about 3 AS shielding him he still grows some after that comment. So when Rand made the comment he was less than full potential.
I need time to digest all the implications of Maria's answers and time to rethink/create a new One Power strength model.
Maybe
9. Question--In [LoC; 30, To Heal Again - 617] Siuan, after being healed, says to Nynaeve that ‘if she could heal her to half of what she was’ she would be better off. This has led to the perception that Siuan and Leane are less than half their original strength. Yet in [CoT; 19, Surprises – 459] we find out that both women stand several steps above the Aes Sedai minimum strength. This seems problematic—the range of Aes Sedai strength does not appear to be so great as to allow for this. So the question is, did Siuan and Leane in fact lose such a large amount of strength as they appear to have?
Maria Answers--Yes, they did lose a large amount of strength. The range of strength is greater than you think, I believe. At the beginning, Siuan was near the top (and Leane close behind); if she were half the strength she used to be, she’d be in the middle. Instead, she’s somewhere in the lower half, but not absolute rock bottom, nor nearly as low as Daigian Moseneillin.
...
20. Question--Is strength in the power evenly distributed? Would on a scale of one to one hundred the most channelers be on the 50 mark? (within a gender, of course).
Maria Answers--Jim described it as a bell curve, with most channelers in the middle.
21. Question--Of the really strong channelers we know the nature to, all but one have been sparkers. This has led to the belief that sparkers are on average stronger than learners. Is this belief justified?
Maria Answers--No. “Having been born with the inherent spark apparently is not an indicator of strength. There are as many with weak potential who will channel whether they are taught or not as there are of great potential” (from Jim’s notes). The stronger ones just get more attention.
22. Question--Do stronger sparkers stand a better chance of surviving touching the Source unaided?
Maria Answers--It depends on what you mean by “stronger” sparkers. If you mean strength in the One Power, not really. If you mean strength of will or character, perhaps. Jim said of touching the One Power unaided: “if you have not learned some sort of rough control, conscious or not, you will die screaming and writhing in agony.”
The most earth shattering revelation, in my opinion, is Maria's answer to question 20. For YEARS, and it has been years for many of us, we've debated how the curve looked.
This confirms that the bell curve peaks at 50 on a scale of 0 to 100. This means we need to redo ALL of our one power strength estimates.
For example, Moiraine must have 50+ strength, putting people like Elayne/Aviendha/Egwene somewhere around 60+
This also means we have to throw out previous shielding theories (as a measure of one power strength) and create new models for strength based on shielding.
For example, Rand knows that no three regular AS can shield him, but he might be in trouble if one was (I forget which forsaken he names). Anyway, my point is that 3 average Aes Sedai are going to average at least 150 power. Yet, Rand knows 150 power against his sub-100 power will never defeat him. I say sub-100 because when Rand makes the comment about 3 AS shielding him he still grows some after that comment. So when Rand made the comment he was less than full potential.
I need time to digest all the implications of Maria's answers and time to rethink/create a new One Power strength model.
Maybe
Maria said that channeling strength is a bell curve. She did not confirm that it's between 1 and 100, with the peak around 50. I believe it to be a bell curve from levels 1 to 21, with most women having a strength of levels 10-12.
She didn't give any new info. RJ told us years ago that he placed strength on a bell curve.
I believe that the bell curve for strength is much like height. It peaks at 5'5-6', but that doesn't mean that the tallest person is 10' and the shortest 0'. That's just a simple analogy, but I believe strength peaks at level 10-12, which should correspond to a strength of about 10-20 out of a 100. There are women on their side with lower and higher strengths.
If most women peaked at 50 with a maximum strength of 100, RJ would be hard pressed to prove it with his own series. Considering Rand says that no three women could match him unless one of them was close to maximum strength, it's nonsensical to think that two together equal a woman of maximum power. Egwene was well above Amys and Melaine in power in FoH, and Moiraine thought she'd need Aviendha's assistance to stand against a Forsaken. Therefore if RJ did make a system like he claimed with women hovering around an average of 50/100, it will go down as the worst described magic system in history.
Wheel of Time board admin
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Several good MAFOs from Dragonmount
10/06/2010 07:07:55 PM
- 2313 Views
Maria's answer to question 20 is ground-breaking!
10/06/2010 07:36:40 PM
- 1253 Views
No, it merely means that the Bell Curve does not refer to absolute strength...
10/06/2010 07:42:31 PM
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See the question again man!
10/06/2010 07:48:57 PM
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That contradicts your assertion that Moiraine is stronger than the average woman...
10/06/2010 07:50:11 PM
- 1163 Views
I need to re-evaluate nothing!
10/06/2010 07:46:20 PM
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Think logically for a moment...
10/06/2010 07:49:10 PM
- 920 Views
Who said Egwene is twice as strong as Moiraine?
10/06/2010 07:52:27 PM
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Aviendha did in FoH...
10/06/2010 07:54:32 PM
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Nope!
10/06/2010 07:55:55 PM
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Your quotes are faulty
10/06/2010 07:57:18 PM
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In what sense though?
10/06/2010 07:59:00 PM
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Forkroot
10/06/2010 08:04:50 PM
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Again... later that night?
10/06/2010 08:05:39 PM
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What do you mean?
10/06/2010 08:07:24 PM
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See below...
10/06/2010 08:11:24 PM
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Re: See below...
10/06/2010 08:12:34 PM
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I just did.
10/06/2010 08:16:09 PM
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Well then we disagree
10/06/2010 08:18:10 PM
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BUT WHAT ABOUT LATER IN THE NIGHT!
10/06/2010 08:20:21 PM
- 893 Views
Ah, you mean later later ...
10/06/2010 08:29:59 PM
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Forkroot wears off, you know?
10/06/2010 08:45:33 PM
- 1089 Views
Yes I know
10/06/2010 09:05:29 PM
- 1092 Views
I've explained it before in this thread...
10/06/2010 09:17:10 PM
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Re: I've explained it before in this thread...
10/06/2010 09:37:39 PM
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Re: I've explained it before in this thread...
10/06/2010 09:51:40 PM
- 1000 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread...
10/06/2010 10:05:37 PM
- 1038 Views
Are you sure you're feeling fine?
10/06/2010 10:18:44 PM
- 1089 Views
RJ writes that Amys cannot hold Egwene. BS writes that Barasene can. Who are you gonna believe?
10/06/2010 08:31:35 PM
- 907 Views
It wasn't BS... both were RJ!
10/06/2010 08:41:54 PM
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In that case, there is no problem...
10/06/2010 08:45:05 PM
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But that isn't what the text says...
10/06/2010 08:57:42 PM
- 864 Views
How can Egwene be strong enough to overcome Katerine and Silviana together then?
10/06/2010 09:07:36 PM
- 1104 Views
Yeah, both were RJ
10/06/2010 08:49:13 PM
- 971 Views
Yeah yeah... RJ lied, Maria lied. Only you make sense. I'm finished with this debate.
10/06/2010 08:59:06 PM
- 1067 Views
10/06/2010 09:07:52 PM
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Really?
10/06/2010 09:29:22 PM
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Re: Really?
10/06/2010 09:39:21 PM
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Here's what is clear:
10/06/2010 09:02:41 PM
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IMO it's easy to disprove
10/06/2010 09:22:23 PM
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Dude...
10/06/2010 09:27:34 PM
- 863 Views
At least we agree on one thing
10/06/2010 09:29:14 PM
- 973 Views
yet 4 women can still hold Rand in LoC ... he can't break the Shield until it's down to 3
13/06/2010 12:47:43 PM
- 801 Views
Have to agree with Sidious on this point
11/06/2010 02:49:58 AM
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The rate forkroot wears off?
16/06/2010 12:36:38 PM
- 995 Views
You missed that she isn't being given Forkroot at night at all!
16/06/2010 04:47:59 PM
- 921 Views
Maria's other answer adresses this...
10/06/2010 08:14:54 PM
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Then one Aes Sedai cannot shield her. But one did.
10/06/2010 08:16:41 PM
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You can be much weaker than someone, and hold them shielded, if they are already cut off...
10/06/2010 08:19:15 PM
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But, if you are much stronger, you can break that shield...
10/06/2010 08:22:25 PM
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Easy...
10/06/2010 08:24:59 PM
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What has that got to do with it?
10/06/2010 08:32:56 PM
- 1071 Views
Amys is not LESS than half of Egwene's strength. You cannot hold someone if you are LESS than half..
10/06/2010 08:47:41 PM
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Amys is as strong as Moiraine, at the most one level lower. Barasine is weaker than Katarine, who...
10/06/2010 09:00:26 PM
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I can agree with that.
10/06/2010 09:09:07 PM
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...
10/06/2010 09:12:21 PM
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Agreed, but...
10/06/2010 09:13:59 PM
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Re: Agreed, but...
10/06/2010 09:16:30 PM
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Good point...
10/06/2010 09:18:53 PM
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Or, you know, you can have the grace to question your antiquated strength list...
10/06/2010 09:22:51 PM
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I'd be perfectly happy to adjust my list if it made sense
10/06/2010 09:32:35 PM
- 848 Views
Uhhh?
10/06/2010 09:41:59 PM
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Re: Uhhh?
10/06/2010 09:48:58 PM
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DUDE!
10/06/2010 09:58:59 PM
- 875 Views
Rand seems to shield Egwene and Elayne TOGETHER, pretty easily...
10/06/2010 09:54:03 PM
- 1497 Views
That's fairly simple, actually...
10/06/2010 10:08:53 PM
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Nope. Rand was also cut off from the Source when he broke a shield held by 3 Aes Sedai...
10/06/2010 11:18:41 PM
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Because that channeler is much stronger? I'm not getting your confusion here. *NM*
10/06/2010 11:27:31 PM
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Your Aes Sedai are close to the average woman in strength, right...
10/06/2010 11:42:01 PM
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No, here's the quote: I hate having to pull out my books with their yellowed pages...
10/06/2010 08:01:54 PM
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Why would she need surprise against two? That was against five of them...
10/06/2010 08:04:57 PM
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Very poor evidence
10/06/2010 08:11:26 PM
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no she said Egwene is stronger than Amys and Melaine combined
11/06/2010 12:46:29 AM
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The actual quote says Amys and Melaine combined...
11/06/2010 12:25:07 PM
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Here's the problem with that...
11/06/2010 12:42:41 PM
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I think you are misreading her.
10/06/2010 07:47:06 PM
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Please explain what you mean by "channeler" and "power" distribution. *NM*
10/06/2010 09:23:36 PM
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Re: Please explain what you mean by "channeler" and "power" distribution.
10/06/2010 10:11:23 PM
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Yes. You can't extrapolate a generalized macro level scale to micro level individuals.
11/06/2010 12:16:24 AM
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I don't agree
10/06/2010 07:49:41 PM
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BAH! Its infuriating how you have so many blinders... Eerily Aes Sedai of you.
10/06/2010 07:54:23 PM
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Hmm...
10/06/2010 07:55:59 PM
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Because of the question to which she responded...
10/06/2010 07:57:55 PM
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Re: Because of the question to which she responded...
10/06/2010 08:06:16 PM
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Without contradicting the latter...
10/06/2010 08:15:11 PM
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Ah well
10/06/2010 08:20:32 PM
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Great! Two of my OP strength ideas have been solidified!
10/06/2010 07:39:53 PM
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Nope...
10/06/2010 07:46:31 PM
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Who said Cadsuane was 50?
10/06/2010 07:51:14 PM
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So how can Egwene be twice as strong as Moiraine, if Moiraine is at 55?
10/06/2010 07:53:11 PM
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She cannot be because she isn't. Silviana can shield Egwene alone, for God's sake. So can Amys!
10/06/2010 07:56:26 PM
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Amys can't hold her properly
10/06/2010 07:59:47 PM
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What about later that night?
10/06/2010 08:02:16 PM
- 842 Views
No she didn't
16/06/2010 03:02:21 PM
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No she didn't what?
16/06/2010 04:46:05 PM
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Re: No she didn't what?
17/06/2010 06:16:16 AM
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Why do you think it's a linear scale?
16/06/2010 05:25:56 AM
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That's simple...
16/06/2010 06:36:44 AM
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Re: That's simple...
16/06/2010 12:27:07 PM
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Your concept is not mathematically right. So yeah, forget discussing it.
16/06/2010 04:41:13 PM
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Dang, Cyndane isn't using Cabriana's body.
10/06/2010 08:25:20 PM
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The blue flash RAFO irritates me- I can't see how that will be relevant. The Min thing was new
10/06/2010 08:50:52 PM
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RJ already RAFOed the incident with Thom's knives/daggers before
10/06/2010 08:57:52 PM
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It isn't, unless she's implying the Creator helped him out or some other such thing
11/06/2010 12:56:49 AM
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Just to make things clear on the strength thing...
10/06/2010 09:08:02 PM
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It is possible Maria was answering the first question and ignoring the second...
10/06/2010 09:29:59 PM
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That still proves my point...
10/06/2010 09:33:10 PM
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Re: That still proves my point...
10/06/2010 09:45:39 PM
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Then why...
10/06/2010 10:00:00 PM
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Re: Then why...
10/06/2010 10:07:56 PM
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God, what stupidity!
10/06/2010 10:10:32 PM
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Re: God, what stupidity!
10/06/2010 10:16:38 PM
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It doesn't have to be 1-100.
10/06/2010 10:32:17 PM
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Re: It doesn't have to be 1-100.
10/06/2010 10:41:02 PM
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That's a mathematical impossibility...
10/06/2010 11:26:23 PM
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Just popping in. I think you're arguing over non-existent delineations.
11/06/2010 12:44:40 AM
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You know, these things always end up pissing me off.
11/06/2010 12:25:05 AM
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Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off.
11/06/2010 03:22:53 AM
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Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off.
11/06/2010 12:29:37 PM
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I agree
11/06/2010 01:14:36 PM
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Re: I agree
12/06/2010 03:02:32 PM
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BS didn't answer with "Read and find out"
12/06/2010 03:28:05 PM
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We were speaking about Maria giving a RAFO on the topic, not Sanderson. *NM*
13/06/2010 12:05:17 AM
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Actually she said "No"...
*NM*
13/06/2010 01:06:18 AM
- 619 Views

I'll rephrase then. It was about Maria saying that she considered giving a RAFO on the question.
13/06/2010 01:44:19 AM
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Eh, practically useless.
14/06/2010 11:50:06 PM
- 871 Views
I agree. I think she is saving the good stuff for the encyclopedia. *NM*
15/06/2010 04:17:07 PM
- 488 Views
Yeah. I do think she's taking advantage of these poor saps, though.
17/06/2010 03:52:33 PM
- 1451 Views