Focusing strictly on the One Power Strength questions and answers...
9. Question--In [LoC; 30, To Heal Again - 617] Siuan, after being healed, says to Nynaeve that ‘if she could heal her to half of what she was’ she would be better off. This has led to the perception that Siuan and Leane are less than half their original strength. Yet in [CoT; 19, Surprises – 459] we find out that both women stand several steps above the Aes Sedai minimum strength. This seems problematic—the range of Aes Sedai strength does not appear to be so great as to allow for this. So the question is, did Siuan and Leane in fact lose such a large amount of strength as they appear to have?
Maria Answers--Yes, they did lose a large amount of strength. The range of strength is greater than you think, I believe. At the beginning, Siuan was near the top (and Leane close behind); if she were half the strength she used to be, she’d be in the middle. Instead, she’s somewhere in the lower half, but not absolute rock bottom, nor nearly as low as Daigian Moseneillin.
...
20. Question--Is strength in the power evenly distributed? Would on a scale of one to one hundred the most channelers be on the 50 mark? (within a gender, of course).
Maria Answers--Jim described it as a bell curve, with most channelers in the middle.
21. Question--Of the really strong channelers we know the nature to, all but one have been sparkers. This has led to the belief that sparkers are on average stronger than learners. Is this belief justified?
Maria Answers--No. “Having been born with the inherent spark apparently is not an indicator of strength. There are as many with weak potential who will channel whether they are taught or not as there are of great potential” (from Jim’s notes). The stronger ones just get more attention.
22. Question--Do stronger sparkers stand a better chance of surviving touching the Source unaided?
Maria Answers--It depends on what you mean by “stronger” sparkers. If you mean strength in the One Power, not really. If you mean strength of will or character, perhaps. Jim said of touching the One Power unaided: “if you have not learned some sort of rough control, conscious or not, you will die screaming and writhing in agony.”
The most earth shattering revelation, in my opinion, is Maria's answer to question 20. For YEARS, and it has been years for many of us, we've debated how the curve looked.
This confirms that the bell curve peaks at 50 on a scale of 0 to 100. This means we need to redo ALL of our one power strength estimates.
For example, Moiraine must have 50+ strength, putting people like Elayne/Aviendha/Egwene somewhere around 60+
This also means we have to throw out previous shielding theories (as a measure of one power strength) and create new models for strength based on shielding.
For example, Rand knows that no three regular AS can shield him, but he might be in trouble if one was (I forget which forsaken he names). Anyway, my point is that 3 average Aes Sedai are going to average at least 150 power. Yet, Rand knows 150 power against his sub-100 power will never defeat him. I say sub-100 because when Rand makes the comment about 3 AS shielding him he still grows some after that comment. So when Rand made the comment he was less than full potential.
I need time to digest all the implications of Maria's answers and time to rethink/create a new One Power strength model.
Maybe
9. Question--In [LoC; 30, To Heal Again - 617] Siuan, after being healed, says to Nynaeve that ‘if she could heal her to half of what she was’ she would be better off. This has led to the perception that Siuan and Leane are less than half their original strength. Yet in [CoT; 19, Surprises – 459] we find out that both women stand several steps above the Aes Sedai minimum strength. This seems problematic—the range of Aes Sedai strength does not appear to be so great as to allow for this. So the question is, did Siuan and Leane in fact lose such a large amount of strength as they appear to have?
Maria Answers--Yes, they did lose a large amount of strength. The range of strength is greater than you think, I believe. At the beginning, Siuan was near the top (and Leane close behind); if she were half the strength she used to be, she’d be in the middle. Instead, she’s somewhere in the lower half, but not absolute rock bottom, nor nearly as low as Daigian Moseneillin.
...
20. Question--Is strength in the power evenly distributed? Would on a scale of one to one hundred the most channelers be on the 50 mark? (within a gender, of course).
Maria Answers--Jim described it as a bell curve, with most channelers in the middle.
21. Question--Of the really strong channelers we know the nature to, all but one have been sparkers. This has led to the belief that sparkers are on average stronger than learners. Is this belief justified?
Maria Answers--No. “Having been born with the inherent spark apparently is not an indicator of strength. There are as many with weak potential who will channel whether they are taught or not as there are of great potential” (from Jim’s notes). The stronger ones just get more attention.
22. Question--Do stronger sparkers stand a better chance of surviving touching the Source unaided?
Maria Answers--It depends on what you mean by “stronger” sparkers. If you mean strength in the One Power, not really. If you mean strength of will or character, perhaps. Jim said of touching the One Power unaided: “if you have not learned some sort of rough control, conscious or not, you will die screaming and writhing in agony.”
The most earth shattering revelation, in my opinion, is Maria's answer to question 20. For YEARS, and it has been years for many of us, we've debated how the curve looked.
This confirms that the bell curve peaks at 50 on a scale of 0 to 100. This means we need to redo ALL of our one power strength estimates.
For example, Moiraine must have 50+ strength, putting people like Elayne/Aviendha/Egwene somewhere around 60+
This also means we have to throw out previous shielding theories (as a measure of one power strength) and create new models for strength based on shielding.
For example, Rand knows that no three regular AS can shield him, but he might be in trouble if one was (I forget which forsaken he names). Anyway, my point is that 3 average Aes Sedai are going to average at least 150 power. Yet, Rand knows 150 power against his sub-100 power will never defeat him. I say sub-100 because when Rand makes the comment about 3 AS shielding him he still grows some after that comment. So when Rand made the comment he was less than full potential.
I need time to digest all the implications of Maria's answers and time to rethink/create a new One Power strength model.
Maybe
Several good MAFOs from Dragonmount
- 10/06/2010 07:07:55 PM
2378 Views
Maria's answer to question 20 is ground-breaking!
- 10/06/2010 07:36:40 PM
1312 Views
No, it merely means that the Bell Curve does not refer to absolute strength...
- 10/06/2010 07:42:31 PM
1154 Views
See the question again man!
- 10/06/2010 07:48:57 PM
1121 Views
That contradicts your assertion that Moiraine is stronger than the average woman...
- 10/06/2010 07:50:11 PM
1208 Views
I need to re-evaluate nothing!
- 10/06/2010 07:46:20 PM
1140 Views
- 10/06/2010 07:46:20 PM
1140 Views
Think logically for a moment...
- 10/06/2010 07:49:10 PM
975 Views
Who said Egwene is twice as strong as Moiraine?
- 10/06/2010 07:52:27 PM
1265 Views
Aviendha did in FoH...
- 10/06/2010 07:54:32 PM
969 Views
Nope!
- 10/06/2010 07:55:55 PM
1146 Views
Your quotes are faulty
- 10/06/2010 07:57:18 PM
1131 Views
In what sense though?
- 10/06/2010 07:59:00 PM
1130 Views
Forkroot
- 10/06/2010 08:04:50 PM
1082 Views
Again... later that night?
- 10/06/2010 08:05:39 PM
951 Views
What do you mean?
- 10/06/2010 08:07:24 PM
1116 Views
See below...
- 10/06/2010 08:11:24 PM
1002 Views
Re: See below...
- 10/06/2010 08:12:34 PM
1061 Views
I just did.
- 10/06/2010 08:16:09 PM
915 Views
Well then we disagree
- 10/06/2010 08:18:10 PM
1117 Views
BUT WHAT ABOUT LATER IN THE NIGHT!
- 10/06/2010 08:20:21 PM
937 Views
Ah, you mean later later ...
- 10/06/2010 08:29:59 PM
1042 Views
Forkroot wears off, you know?
- 10/06/2010 08:45:33 PM
1142 Views
Yes I know
- 10/06/2010 09:05:29 PM
1146 Views
I've explained it before in this thread...
- 10/06/2010 09:17:10 PM
1112 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread...
- 10/06/2010 09:37:39 PM
1110 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread...
- 10/06/2010 09:51:40 PM
1048 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread...
- 10/06/2010 10:05:37 PM
1093 Views
Are you sure you're feeling fine?
- 10/06/2010 10:18:44 PM
1149 Views
RJ writes that Amys cannot hold Egwene. BS writes that Barasene can. Who are you gonna believe?
- 10/06/2010 08:31:35 PM
959 Views
It wasn't BS... both were RJ!
- 10/06/2010 08:41:54 PM
1047 Views
In that case, there is no problem...
- 10/06/2010 08:45:05 PM
1184 Views
But that isn't what the text says...
- 10/06/2010 08:57:42 PM
911 Views
How can Egwene be strong enough to overcome Katerine and Silviana together then?
- 10/06/2010 09:07:36 PM
1151 Views
Yeah, both were RJ
- 10/06/2010 08:49:13 PM
1025 Views
Yeah yeah... RJ lied, Maria lied. Only you make sense. I'm finished with this debate.
- 10/06/2010 08:59:06 PM
1113 Views
- 10/06/2010 09:07:52 PM
1117 Views
- 10/06/2010 09:07:52 PM
1117 Views
Really?
- 10/06/2010 09:29:22 PM
974 Views
Re: Really?
- 10/06/2010 09:39:21 PM
1098 Views
Here's what is clear:
- 10/06/2010 09:02:41 PM
1016 Views
IMO it's easy to disprove
- 10/06/2010 09:22:23 PM
996 Views
Dude...
- 10/06/2010 09:27:34 PM
911 Views
At least we agree on one thing
- 10/06/2010 09:29:14 PM
1026 Views
yet 4 women can still hold Rand in LoC ... he can't break the Shield until it's down to 3
- 13/06/2010 12:47:43 PM
847 Views
Have to agree with Sidious on this point
- 11/06/2010 02:49:58 AM
952 Views
The rate forkroot wears off?
- 16/06/2010 12:36:38 PM
1061 Views
You missed that she isn't being given Forkroot at night at all!
- 16/06/2010 04:47:59 PM
967 Views
Maria's other answer adresses this...
- 10/06/2010 08:14:54 PM
866 Views
Then one Aes Sedai cannot shield her. But one did.
- 10/06/2010 08:16:41 PM
984 Views
You can be much weaker than someone, and hold them shielded, if they are already cut off...
- 10/06/2010 08:19:15 PM
969 Views
But, if you are much stronger, you can break that shield...
- 10/06/2010 08:22:25 PM
963 Views
Easy...
- 10/06/2010 08:24:59 PM
930 Views
What has that got to do with it?
- 10/06/2010 08:32:56 PM
1118 Views
Amys is not LESS than half of Egwene's strength. You cannot hold someone if you are LESS than half..
- 10/06/2010 08:47:41 PM
1035 Views
Amys is as strong as Moiraine, at the most one level lower. Barasine is weaker than Katarine, who...
- 10/06/2010 09:00:26 PM
1155 Views
I can agree with that.
- 10/06/2010 09:09:07 PM
924 Views
...
- 10/06/2010 09:12:21 PM
923 Views
Agreed, but...
- 10/06/2010 09:13:59 PM
1070 Views
Re: Agreed, but...
- 10/06/2010 09:16:30 PM
871 Views
Good point...
- 10/06/2010 09:18:53 PM
1093 Views
Or, you know, you can have the grace to question your antiquated strength list...
- 10/06/2010 09:22:51 PM
945 Views
I'd be perfectly happy to adjust my list if it made sense
- 10/06/2010 09:32:35 PM
890 Views
Uhhh?
- 10/06/2010 09:41:59 PM
897 Views
Re: Uhhh?
- 10/06/2010 09:48:58 PM
902 Views
DUDE!
- 10/06/2010 09:58:59 PM
922 Views
Rand seems to shield Egwene and Elayne TOGETHER, pretty easily...
- 10/06/2010 09:54:03 PM
1574 Views
That's fairly simple, actually...
- 10/06/2010 10:08:53 PM
1141 Views
Nope. Rand was also cut off from the Source when he broke a shield held by 3 Aes Sedai...
- 10/06/2010 11:18:41 PM
1107 Views
Because that channeler is much stronger? I'm not getting your confusion here. *NM*
- 10/06/2010 11:27:31 PM
531 Views
Your Aes Sedai are close to the average woman in strength, right...
- 10/06/2010 11:42:01 PM
1182 Views
No, here's the quote: I hate having to pull out my books with their yellowed pages...
- 10/06/2010 08:01:54 PM
936 Views
Why would she need surprise against two? That was against five of them...
- 10/06/2010 08:04:57 PM
954 Views
Very poor evidence
- 10/06/2010 08:11:26 PM
1080 Views
no she said Egwene is stronger than Amys and Melaine combined
- 11/06/2010 12:46:29 AM
1020 Views
The actual quote says Amys and Melaine combined...
- 11/06/2010 12:25:07 PM
1064 Views
Here's the problem with that...
- 11/06/2010 12:42:41 PM
927 Views
I think you are misreading her.
- 10/06/2010 07:47:06 PM
902 Views
Please explain what you mean by "channeler" and "power" distribution. *NM*
- 10/06/2010 09:23:36 PM
569 Views
Re: Please explain what you mean by "channeler" and "power" distribution.
- 10/06/2010 10:11:23 PM
1119 Views
Yes. You can't extrapolate a generalized macro level scale to micro level individuals.
- 11/06/2010 12:16:24 AM
968 Views
I don't agree
- 10/06/2010 07:49:41 PM
952 Views
BAH! Its infuriating how you have so many blinders... Eerily Aes Sedai of you.
- 10/06/2010 07:54:23 PM
1147 Views
Hmm...
- 10/06/2010 07:55:59 PM
876 Views
Because of the question to which she responded...
- 10/06/2010 07:57:55 PM
888 Views
Re: Because of the question to which she responded...
- 10/06/2010 08:06:16 PM
1041 Views
Without contradicting the latter...
- 10/06/2010 08:15:11 PM
928 Views
Ah well
- 10/06/2010 08:20:32 PM
926 Views
omg not this again *NM*
- 10/06/2010 07:52:26 PM
1046 Views
Great! Two of my OP strength ideas have been solidified!
- 10/06/2010 07:39:53 PM
1153 Views
Nope...
- 10/06/2010 07:46:31 PM
1010 Views
Who said Cadsuane was 50?
- 10/06/2010 07:51:14 PM
1038 Views
So how can Egwene be twice as strong as Moiraine, if Moiraine is at 55?
- 10/06/2010 07:53:11 PM
900 Views
She cannot be because she isn't. Silviana can shield Egwene alone, for God's sake. So can Amys!
- 10/06/2010 07:56:26 PM
853 Views
Amys can't hold her properly
- 10/06/2010 07:59:47 PM
886 Views
What about later that night?
- 10/06/2010 08:02:16 PM
901 Views
No she didn't
- 16/06/2010 03:02:21 PM
1016 Views
No she didn't what?
- 16/06/2010 04:46:05 PM
1064 Views
Re: No she didn't what?
- 17/06/2010 06:16:16 AM
913 Views
Why do you think it's a linear scale?
- 16/06/2010 05:25:56 AM
1014 Views
That's simple...
- 16/06/2010 06:36:44 AM
987 Views
Re: That's simple...
- 16/06/2010 12:27:07 PM
937 Views
Your concept is not mathematically right. So yeah, forget discussing it.
- 16/06/2010 04:41:13 PM
1123 Views
Dang, Cyndane isn't using Cabriana's body.
- 10/06/2010 08:25:20 PM
968 Views
The blue flash RAFO irritates me- I can't see how that will be relevant. The Min thing was new
- 10/06/2010 08:50:52 PM
1088 Views
RJ already RAFOed the incident with Thom's knives/daggers before
- 10/06/2010 08:57:52 PM
1168 Views
It isn't, unless she's implying the Creator helped him out or some other such thing
- 11/06/2010 12:56:49 AM
918 Views
Just to make things clear on the strength thing...
- 10/06/2010 09:08:02 PM
1198 Views
It is possible Maria was answering the first question and ignoring the second...
- 10/06/2010 09:29:59 PM
934 Views
That still proves my point...
- 10/06/2010 09:33:10 PM
1102 Views
Re: That still proves my point...
- 10/06/2010 09:45:39 PM
968 Views
Then why...
- 10/06/2010 10:00:00 PM
1057 Views
Re: Then why...
- 10/06/2010 10:07:56 PM
934 Views
God, what stupidity!
- 10/06/2010 10:10:32 PM
913 Views
Re: God, what stupidity!
- 10/06/2010 10:16:38 PM
1019 Views
It doesn't have to be 1-100.
- 10/06/2010 10:32:17 PM
958 Views
Re: It doesn't have to be 1-100.
- 10/06/2010 10:41:02 PM
1250 Views
That's a mathematical impossibility...
- 10/06/2010 11:26:23 PM
1092 Views
Just popping in. I think you're arguing over non-existent delineations.
- 11/06/2010 12:44:40 AM
1009 Views
You know, these things always end up pissing me off.
- 11/06/2010 12:25:05 AM
989 Views
Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off.
- 11/06/2010 03:22:53 AM
1102 Views
Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off.
- 11/06/2010 12:29:37 PM
1059 Views
I agree
- 11/06/2010 01:14:36 PM
1159 Views
Re: I agree
- 12/06/2010 03:02:32 PM
942 Views
BS didn't answer with "Read and find out"
- 12/06/2010 03:28:05 PM
973 Views
We were speaking about Maria giving a RAFO on the topic, not Sanderson. *NM*
- 13/06/2010 12:05:17 AM
548 Views
Actually she said "No"...
*NM*
- 13/06/2010 01:06:18 AM
645 Views
*NM*
- 13/06/2010 01:06:18 AM
645 Views
I'll rephrase then. It was about Maria saying that she considered giving a RAFO on the question.
- 13/06/2010 01:44:19 AM
971 Views
Eh, practically useless.
- 14/06/2010 11:50:06 PM
926 Views
I agree. I think she is saving the good stuff for the encyclopedia. *NM*
- 15/06/2010 04:17:07 PM
512 Views
Yeah. I do think she's taking advantage of these poor saps, though.
- 17/06/2010 03:52:33 PM
1497 Views
