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omg not this again *NM* BlackAdder Send a noteboard - 10/06/2010 07:52:26 PM
Focusing strictly on the One Power Strength questions and answers...


9. Question--In [LoC; 30, To Heal Again - 617] Siuan, after being healed, says to Nynaeve that ‘if she could heal her to half of what she was’ she would be better off. This has led to the perception that Siuan and Leane are less than half their original strength. Yet in [CoT; 19, Surprises – 459] we find out that both women stand several steps above the Aes Sedai minimum strength. This seems problematic—the range of Aes Sedai strength does not appear to be so great as to allow for this. So the question is, did Siuan and Leane in fact lose such a large amount of strength as they appear to have?

Maria Answers--Yes, they did lose a large amount of strength. The range of strength is greater than you think, I believe. At the beginning, Siuan was near the top (and Leane close behind); if she were half the strength she used to be, she’d be in the middle. Instead, she’s somewhere in the lower half, but not absolute rock bottom, nor nearly as low as Daigian Moseneillin.

...

20. Question--Is strength in the power evenly distributed? Would on a scale of one to one hundred the most channelers be on the 50 mark? (within a gender, of course).

Maria Answers--Jim described it as a bell curve, with most channelers in the middle.

21. Question--Of the really strong channelers we know the nature to, all but one have been sparkers. This has led to the belief that sparkers are on average stronger than learners. Is this belief justified?

Maria Answers--No. “Having been born with the inherent spark apparently is not an indicator of strength. There are as many with weak potential who will channel whether they are taught or not as there are of great potential” (from Jim’s notes). The stronger ones just get more attention.

22. Question--Do stronger sparkers stand a better chance of surviving touching the Source unaided?

Maria Answers--It depends on what you mean by “stronger” sparkers. If you mean strength in the One Power, not really. If you mean strength of will or character, perhaps. Jim said of touching the One Power unaided: “if you have not learned some sort of rough control, conscious or not, you will die screaming and writhing in agony.”


The most earth shattering revelation, in my opinion, is Maria's answer to question 20. For YEARS, and it has been years for many of us, we've debated how the curve looked.

This confirms that the bell curve peaks at 50 on a scale of 0 to 100. This means we need to redo ALL of our one power strength estimates.

For example, Moiraine must have 50+ strength, putting people like Elayne/Aviendha/Egwene somewhere around 60+

This also means we have to throw out previous shielding theories (as a measure of one power strength) and create new models for strength based on shielding.

For example, Rand knows that no three regular AS can shield him, but he might be in trouble if one was (I forget which forsaken he names). Anyway, my point is that 3 average Aes Sedai are going to average at least 150 power. Yet, Rand knows 150 power against his sub-100 power will never defeat him. I say sub-100 because when Rand makes the comment about 3 AS shielding him he still grows some after that comment. So when Rand made the comment he was less than full potential.

I need time to digest all the implications of Maria's answers and time to rethink/create a new One Power strength model.

Maybe
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Several good MAFOs from Dragonmount - 10/06/2010 07:07:55 PM 2292 Views
Some good RAFOs here - 10/06/2010 07:31:56 PM 1043 Views
Yeah... - 10/06/2010 07:36:55 PM 931 Views
Maria's answer to question 20 is ground-breaking! - 10/06/2010 07:36:40 PM 1222 Views
No, it merely means that the Bell Curve does not refer to absolute strength... - 10/06/2010 07:42:31 PM 1079 Views
See the question again man! - 10/06/2010 07:48:57 PM 1048 Views
That contradicts your assertion that Moiraine is stronger than the average woman... - 10/06/2010 07:50:11 PM 1142 Views
How? - 10/06/2010 07:54:41 PM 1071 Views
I need to re-evaluate nothing! - 10/06/2010 07:46:20 PM 1069 Views
Think logically for a moment... - 10/06/2010 07:49:10 PM 902 Views
Who said Egwene is twice as strong as Moiraine? - 10/06/2010 07:52:27 PM 1181 Views
Aviendha did in FoH... - 10/06/2010 07:54:32 PM 895 Views
Nope! - 10/06/2010 07:55:55 PM 1066 Views
Your quotes are faulty - 10/06/2010 07:57:18 PM 1072 Views
In what sense though? - 10/06/2010 07:59:00 PM 1065 Views
Forkroot - 10/06/2010 08:04:50 PM 1006 Views
Again... later that night? - 10/06/2010 08:05:39 PM 875 Views
What do you mean? - 10/06/2010 08:07:24 PM 1052 Views
See below... - 10/06/2010 08:11:24 PM 931 Views
Re: See below... - 10/06/2010 08:12:34 PM 1002 Views
I just did. - 10/06/2010 08:16:09 PM 837 Views
Well then we disagree - 10/06/2010 08:18:10 PM 1040 Views
BUT WHAT ABOUT LATER IN THE NIGHT! - 10/06/2010 08:20:21 PM 876 Views
Ah, you mean later later ... - 10/06/2010 08:29:59 PM 975 Views
Forkroot wears off, you know? - 10/06/2010 08:45:33 PM 1070 Views
Yes I know - 10/06/2010 09:05:29 PM 1078 Views
I've explained it before in this thread... - 10/06/2010 09:17:10 PM 1052 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread... - 10/06/2010 09:37:39 PM 1047 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread... - 10/06/2010 09:51:40 PM 979 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread... - 10/06/2010 10:05:37 PM 1009 Views
Are you sure you're feeling fine? - 10/06/2010 10:18:44 PM 1070 Views
Re: Are you sure you're feeling fine? - 10/06/2010 10:29:04 PM 1172 Views
Re: Are you sure you're feeling fine? - 10/06/2010 10:47:00 PM 969 Views
RJ writes that Amys cannot hold Egwene. BS writes that Barasene can. Who are you gonna believe? - 10/06/2010 08:31:35 PM 890 Views
It wasn't BS... both were RJ! - 10/06/2010 08:41:54 PM 974 Views
In that case, there is no problem... - 10/06/2010 08:45:05 PM 1002 Views
But that isn't what the text says... - 10/06/2010 08:57:42 PM 848 Views
How can Egwene be strong enough to overcome Katerine and Silviana together then? - 10/06/2010 09:07:36 PM 1085 Views
She also says Egwene is Aes Sedai in the same sentence... - 10/06/2010 09:25:16 PM 1109 Views
Yeah, both were RJ - 10/06/2010 08:49:13 PM 956 Views
Yeah yeah... RJ lied, Maria lied. Only you make sense. I'm finished with this debate. - 10/06/2010 08:59:06 PM 1051 Views
- 10/06/2010 09:07:52 PM 1037 Views
Really? - 10/06/2010 09:29:22 PM 904 Views
Re: Really? - 10/06/2010 09:39:21 PM 1012 Views
Re: Really? - 10/06/2010 09:43:41 PM 892 Views
Re: Really? - 10/06/2010 09:50:23 PM 1057 Views
I haven't refuted? - 10/06/2010 09:53:17 PM 1082 Views
Here's what is clear: - 10/06/2010 09:02:41 PM 954 Views
IMO it's easy to disprove - 10/06/2010 09:22:23 PM 935 Views
Dude... - 10/06/2010 09:27:34 PM 840 Views
At least we agree on one thing - 10/06/2010 09:29:14 PM 955 Views
No... - 10/06/2010 09:32:06 PM 888 Views
Re: No... - 10/06/2010 09:43:59 PM 1035 Views
- 10/06/2010 09:57:25 PM 885 Views
Re: - 10/06/2010 10:12:29 PM 979 Views
Re: - 10/06/2010 10:34:28 PM 991 Views
Thought on this - 13/06/2010 01:09:29 PM 905 Views
Have to agree with Sidious on this point - 11/06/2010 02:49:58 AM 887 Views
That was kind of my point... - 11/06/2010 12:19:23 PM 615 Views
of course Katerine would have complained - 12/06/2010 12:53:31 PM 1008 Views
The rate forkroot wears off? - 16/06/2010 12:36:38 PM 965 Views
You missed that she isn't being given Forkroot at night at all! - 16/06/2010 04:47:59 PM 903 Views
Typos, screwed up what I meant - 17/06/2010 02:31:50 AM 914 Views
You are... - 17/06/2010 04:32:47 AM 1132 Views
Maria's other answer adresses this... - 10/06/2010 08:14:54 PM 787 Views
Then one Aes Sedai cannot shield her. But one did. - 10/06/2010 08:16:41 PM 910 Views
You can be much weaker than someone, and hold them shielded, if they are already cut off... - 10/06/2010 08:19:15 PM 887 Views
But, if you are much stronger, you can break that shield... - 10/06/2010 08:22:25 PM 903 Views
Easy... - 10/06/2010 08:24:59 PM 865 Views
What has that got to do with it? - 10/06/2010 08:32:56 PM 1053 Views
Amys is not LESS than half of Egwene's strength. You cannot hold someone if you are LESS than half.. - 10/06/2010 08:47:41 PM 966 Views
Amys is as strong as Moiraine, at the most one level lower. Barasine is weaker than Katarine, who... - 10/06/2010 09:00:26 PM 1098 Views
I can agree with that. - 10/06/2010 09:09:07 PM 853 Views
How can you agree with it? - 10/06/2010 09:13:55 PM 1055 Views
I'm thinking Berowin here... - 10/06/2010 09:16:41 PM 1058 Views
Exactly. - 10/06/2010 09:18:19 PM 915 Views
... - 10/06/2010 09:12:21 PM 838 Views
Agreed, but... - 10/06/2010 09:13:59 PM 1009 Views
Re: Agreed, but... - 10/06/2010 09:16:30 PM 810 Views
Good point... - 10/06/2010 09:18:53 PM 1020 Views
Or, you know, you're wrong? - 10/06/2010 09:27:55 PM 889 Views
Re: Good point... - 10/06/2010 09:28:02 PM 1092 Views
We've had this discussion before - 13/06/2010 01:59:34 PM 990 Views
Or, you know, you can have the grace to question your antiquated strength list... - 10/06/2010 09:22:51 PM 884 Views
The Bell Curve fits perfectly if one simple fact is true... - 10/06/2010 09:31:31 PM 841 Views
Or, you know, you can stop misinterpreting Aviendha... - 10/06/2010 09:40:05 PM 964 Views
I'd be perfectly happy to adjust my list if it made sense - 10/06/2010 09:32:35 PM 831 Views
Uhhh? - 10/06/2010 09:41:59 PM 828 Views
Re: Uhhh? - 10/06/2010 09:48:58 PM 830 Views
DUDE! - 10/06/2010 09:58:59 PM 862 Views
Re: DUDE! - 10/06/2010 10:09:11 PM 819 Views
I explained... - 10/06/2010 10:27:44 PM 843 Views
Re: I explained... - 10/06/2010 10:45:58 PM 972 Views
Rand seems to shield Egwene and Elayne TOGETHER, pretty easily... - 10/06/2010 09:54:03 PM 1437 Views
That's fairly simple, actually... - 10/06/2010 10:08:53 PM 1082 Views
Nope. Rand was also cut off from the Source when he broke a shield held by 3 Aes Sedai... - 10/06/2010 11:18:41 PM 1033 Views
Because that channeler is much stronger? I'm not getting your confusion here. *NM* - 10/06/2010 11:27:31 PM 500 Views
Your Aes Sedai are close to the average woman in strength, right... - 10/06/2010 11:42:01 PM 1098 Views
You are making a couple of mistakes - 13/06/2010 02:28:41 PM 955 Views
You're missing an important point... - 14/06/2010 11:10:55 PM 944 Views
Yes, what do you mean? You are actually proving our point... - 10/06/2010 08:10:50 PM 816 Views
No, here's the quote: I hate having to pull out my books with their yellowed pages... - 10/06/2010 08:01:54 PM 876 Views
Why would she need surprise against two? That was against five of them... - 10/06/2010 08:04:57 PM 893 Views
That makes no sense whatsoever... - 10/06/2010 08:06:53 PM 859 Views
Simply this... - 10/06/2010 08:13:42 PM 878 Views
Very poor evidence - 10/06/2010 08:11:26 PM 1010 Views
No it isn't... - 10/06/2010 08:18:09 PM 958 Views
Re: No it isn't... - 10/06/2010 08:32:17 PM 1032 Views
no she said Egwene is stronger than Amys and Melaine combined - 11/06/2010 12:46:29 AM 957 Views
The actual quote says Amys and Melaine combined... - 11/06/2010 12:25:07 PM 1005 Views
Here's the problem with that... - 11/06/2010 12:42:41 PM 861 Views
Linked circles are more effective than individual channelers... - 11/06/2010 01:57:43 PM 962 Views
That much stronger? - 14/06/2010 11:06:18 PM 1021 Views
On this we agree. - 13/06/2010 02:34:45 PM 843 Views
I think you are misreading her. - 10/06/2010 07:47:06 PM 826 Views
Bingo *NM* - 10/06/2010 07:51:29 PM 587 Views
Please explain what you mean by "channeler" and "power" distribution. *NM* - 10/06/2010 09:23:36 PM 538 Views
Re: Please explain what you mean by "channeler" and "power" distribution. - 10/06/2010 10:11:23 PM 1054 Views
I don't agree - 10/06/2010 07:49:41 PM 879 Views
BAH! Its infuriating how you have so many blinders... Eerily Aes Sedai of you. - 10/06/2010 07:54:23 PM 1025 Views
Hmm... - 10/06/2010 07:55:59 PM 799 Views
Because of the question to which she responded... - 10/06/2010 07:57:55 PM 829 Views
Re: Because of the question to which she responded... - 10/06/2010 08:06:16 PM 969 Views
Without contradicting the latter... - 10/06/2010 08:15:11 PM 861 Views
Ah well - 10/06/2010 08:20:32 PM 841 Views
Which is even more evidence... - 10/06/2010 08:23:28 PM 938 Views
Dude - 10/06/2010 08:30:57 PM 1049 Views
It isn't omission - 14/06/2010 10:54:47 PM 1015 Views
omg not this again *NM* - 10/06/2010 07:52:26 PM 976 Views
Great! Two of my OP strength ideas have been solidified! - 10/06/2010 07:39:53 PM 1087 Views
Nope... - 10/06/2010 07:46:31 PM 943 Views
Who said Cadsuane was 50? - 10/06/2010 07:51:14 PM 978 Views
So how can Egwene be twice as strong as Moiraine, if Moiraine is at 55? - 10/06/2010 07:53:11 PM 839 Views
She cannot be because she isn't. Silviana can shield Egwene alone, for God's sake. So can Amys! - 10/06/2010 07:56:26 PM 787 Views
Amys can't hold her properly - 10/06/2010 07:59:47 PM 819 Views
What about later that night? - 10/06/2010 08:02:16 PM 824 Views
No she didn't - 16/06/2010 03:02:21 PM 937 Views
No she didn't what? - 16/06/2010 04:46:05 PM 992 Views
Re: No she didn't what? - 17/06/2010 06:16:16 AM 829 Views
Re: No she didn't what? - 17/06/2010 06:02:57 PM 983 Views
you are arguing in a circle - 17/06/2010 06:31:19 PM 1306 Views
Why do you think it's a linear scale? - 16/06/2010 05:25:56 AM 952 Views
That's simple... - 16/06/2010 06:36:44 AM 904 Views
Re: That's simple... - 16/06/2010 12:27:07 PM 859 Views
Your concept is not mathematically right. So yeah, forget discussing it. - 16/06/2010 04:41:13 PM 1044 Views
Dang, Cyndane isn't using Cabriana's body. - 10/06/2010 08:25:20 PM 897 Views
But they didn't look alike anyway. *NM* - 10/06/2010 08:59:35 PM 585 Views
Eh, yeah. - 12/06/2010 08:24:10 PM 834 Views
The blue flash RAFO irritates me- I can't see how that will be relevant. The Min thing was new - 10/06/2010 08:50:52 PM 1025 Views
RJ already RAFOed the incident with Thom's knives/daggers before - 10/06/2010 08:57:52 PM 1110 Views
They RAFO way too much. - 11/06/2010 12:25:56 AM 826 Views
It isn't, unless she's implying the Creator helped him out or some other such thing - 11/06/2010 12:56:49 AM 858 Views
Just to make things clear on the strength thing... - 10/06/2010 09:08:02 PM 1136 Views
It is possible Maria was answering the first question and ignoring the second... - 10/06/2010 09:29:59 PM 863 Views
That still proves my point... - 10/06/2010 09:33:10 PM 1035 Views
Re: That still proves my point... - 10/06/2010 09:45:39 PM 893 Views
Then why... - 10/06/2010 10:00:00 PM 991 Views
Re: Then why... - 10/06/2010 10:07:56 PM 861 Views
God, what stupidity! - 10/06/2010 10:10:32 PM 852 Views
Re: God, what stupidity! - 10/06/2010 10:16:38 PM 952 Views
It doesn't have to be 1-100. - 10/06/2010 10:32:17 PM 903 Views
Re: It doesn't have to be 1-100. - 10/06/2010 10:41:02 PM 1177 Views
That's a mathematical impossibility... - 10/06/2010 11:26:23 PM 1020 Views
Just popping in. I think you're arguing over non-existent delineations. - 11/06/2010 12:44:40 AM 943 Views
You're pretty much agreeing with me, you know? - 11/06/2010 12:32:44 PM 909 Views
Yes. - 14/06/2010 10:31:00 PM 1026 Views
Re: Just to make things clear on the strength thing... - 14/06/2010 11:21:31 PM 1235 Views
Huh? - 14/06/2010 11:48:43 PM 829 Views
Also interesting... - 10/06/2010 09:38:27 PM 975 Views
I'm even more confused (parallel worlds and the Pattern) - 10/06/2010 09:48:17 PM 945 Views
Nah,... - 11/06/2010 11:38:20 AM 934 Views
Fascinating! - 13/06/2010 02:30:42 AM 984 Views
You know, these things always end up pissing me off. - 11/06/2010 12:25:05 AM 930 Views
I think she's saving that info for her WoT Encyclopedia. - 11/06/2010 12:54:38 AM 996 Views
Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off. - 11/06/2010 03:22:53 AM 1040 Views
Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off. - 11/06/2010 12:29:37 PM 971 Views
I agree - 11/06/2010 01:14:36 PM 1081 Views
Re: I agree - 12/06/2010 03:02:32 PM 863 Views
BS didn't answer with "Read and find out" - 12/06/2010 03:28:05 PM 906 Views
We were speaking about Maria giving a RAFO on the topic, not Sanderson. *NM* - 13/06/2010 12:05:17 AM 515 Views
Actually she said "No"... *NM* - 13/06/2010 01:06:18 AM 610 Views
I agree with Jack and Sidious and not with you. - 11/06/2010 03:20:30 PM 1005 Views
Well, on the Thom question... - 11/06/2010 08:25:09 AM 891 Views
Yeah - 11/06/2010 08:26:33 AM 995 Views
Re: Yeah - 15/06/2010 12:25:21 AM 852 Views
Eh, practically useless. - 14/06/2010 11:50:06 PM 852 Views
I agree. I think she is saving the good stuff for the encyclopedia. *NM* - 15/06/2010 04:17:07 PM 481 Views
Yeah. I do think she's taking advantage of these poor saps, though. - 17/06/2010 03:52:33 PM 1436 Views

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