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I've explained it before in this thread... fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 10/06/2010 09:17:10 PM

I'm trying to address your shock that one woman can hold Egwene. One can't even hold Galina, and this weak Wise One is not even as weak as a weak Aes Sedai. And yet we're to believe that Barasine alone can hold Egwene? We don't even know if Barasine is strong.

We know she's below Katarine, and the text makes clear she can indeed hold Egwene. Explain that to me, if Egwene is more than twice as strong as her.

Except it doesn't explain Aviendha's statement. Or others, like Egwene's statement in FoH to Rand that he's stronger than she and Aviendha combined (from what she saw of his channeling).

Both statements are fairly easy to explain.

If you seriously believe Aviendha was saying Egwene's strength is that of Amys and Melaine combined, then there is no way in hell how the two Black sisters who were definitely much weaker than them could hold Nynaeve. Yet they did! What do you believe more? Your interpretation of what Avi said, or an actual, unambiguous event that happened in the books?

In tFoH, neither Egwene nor Avi were at their full strengths, yet Rand was pretty close to his. Which explains why Egwene thinks he's stronger than both of them. Further, Rand had an angreal, which obviously made him even stronger, and Egwene was angreal-enhanced effects.

Anyway, we've seen that Amys says that she can barely hold Egwene with a shield. One quote says that Amys is as strong as Sheriam, and another as strong as Moiraine - but clearly she's up there. Logically, even Katerine would be hard pressed to hold Egwene all night if Amys was fatigued by it. What's your theory on that?

That Katarine and Baraisne are Reds who live to shield, and are better at it than Amys, who probably has a cruder shield.
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Several good MAFOs from Dragonmount Etzel - 10/06/2010 07:07:55 PM 2346 Views
Some good RAFOs here Skeeve the Great - 10/06/2010 07:31:56 PM 1093 Views
Yeah... Etzel - 10/06/2010 07:36:55 PM 984 Views
Maria's answer to question 20 is ground-breaking! Logain - 10/06/2010 07:36:40 PM 1287 Views
No, it merely means that the Bell Curve does not refer to absolute strength... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:42:31 PM 1128 Views
See the question again man! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:48:57 PM 1105 Views
That contradicts your assertion that Moiraine is stronger than the average woman... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:50:11 PM 1194 Views
How? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:54:41 PM 1127 Views
I need to re-evaluate nothing! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:46:20 PM 1128 Views
Think logically for a moment... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:49:10 PM 957 Views
Who said Egwene is twice as strong as Moiraine? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:52:27 PM 1252 Views
Aviendha did in FoH... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:54:32 PM 942 Views
Nope! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:55:55 PM 1115 Views
Your quotes are faulty Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:57:18 PM 1121 Views
In what sense though? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:59:00 PM 1109 Views
Forkroot Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:04:50 PM 1069 Views
Again... later that night? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:05:39 PM 923 Views
What do you mean? Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:07:24 PM 1104 Views
See below... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:11:24 PM 982 Views
Re: See below... Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:12:34 PM 1051 Views
I just did. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:16:09 PM 891 Views
Well then we disagree Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:18:10 PM 1099 Views
BUT WHAT ABOUT LATER IN THE NIGHT! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:20:21 PM 924 Views
Ah, you mean later later ... Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:29:59 PM 1030 Views
Forkroot wears off, you know? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:45:33 PM 1124 Views
Yes I know Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:05:29 PM 1125 Views
I've explained it before in this thread... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:17:10 PM 1099 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:37:39 PM 1096 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:51:40 PM 1030 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread... Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:05:37 PM 1070 Views
Are you sure you're feeling fine? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:18:44 PM 1121 Views
Re: Are you sure you're feeling fine? Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:29:04 PM 1225 Views
Re: Are you sure you're feeling fine? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:47:00 PM 1016 Views
RJ writes that Amys cannot hold Egwene. BS writes that Barasene can. Who are you gonna believe? Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:31:35 PM 938 Views
It wasn't BS... both were RJ! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:41:54 PM 1029 Views
In that case, there is no problem... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:45:05 PM 1169 Views
But that isn't what the text says... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:57:42 PM 895 Views
How can Egwene be strong enough to overcome Katerine and Silviana together then? Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:07:36 PM 1138 Views
She also says Egwene is Aes Sedai in the same sentence... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:25:16 PM 1158 Views
Yeah, both were RJ Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:49:13 PM 1010 Views
Yeah yeah... RJ lied, Maria lied. Only you make sense. I'm finished with this debate. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:59:06 PM 1098 Views
Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:07:52 PM 1091 Views
Really? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:29:22 PM 958 Views
Re: Really? Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:39:21 PM 1062 Views
Re: Really? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:43:41 PM 943 Views
Re: Really? Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:50:23 PM 1102 Views
I haven't refuted? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:53:17 PM 1144 Views
Here's what is clear: Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:02:41 PM 1001 Views
IMO it's easy to disprove Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:22:23 PM 984 Views
Dude... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:27:34 PM 894 Views
At least we agree on one thing Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:29:14 PM 1006 Views
No... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:32:06 PM 965 Views
Re: No... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:43:59 PM 1085 Views
fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:57:25 PM 938 Views
Re: Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:12:29 PM 1030 Views
Re: fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:34:28 PM 1037 Views
Thought on this darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 01:09:29 PM 948 Views
yet 4 women can still hold Rand in LoC ... he can't break the Shield until it's down to 3 darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 12:47:43 PM 833 Views
Have to agree with Sidious on this point darius_sedai - 11/06/2010 02:49:58 AM 932 Views
That was kind of my point... fionwe1987 - 11/06/2010 12:19:23 PM 666 Views
of course Katerine would have complained darius_sedai - 12/06/2010 12:53:31 PM 1054 Views
The rate forkroot wears off? Rurouni_Kenshin - 16/06/2010 12:36:38 PM 1050 Views
You missed that she isn't being given Forkroot at night at all! fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 04:47:59 PM 950 Views
Typos, screwed up what I meant Rurouni_Kenshin - 17/06/2010 02:31:50 AM 961 Views
You are... fionwe1987 - 17/06/2010 04:32:47 AM 1180 Views
Maria's other answer adresses this... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:14:54 PM 839 Views
Then one Aes Sedai cannot shield her. But one did. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:16:41 PM 958 Views
You can be much weaker than someone, and hold them shielded, if they are already cut off... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:19:15 PM 942 Views
But, if you are much stronger, you can break that shield... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:22:25 PM 952 Views
Easy... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:24:59 PM 915 Views
What has that got to do with it? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:32:56 PM 1102 Views
Amys is not LESS than half of Egwene's strength. You cannot hold someone if you are LESS than half.. Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:47:41 PM 1012 Views
Amys is as strong as Moiraine, at the most one level lower. Barasine is weaker than Katarine, who... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:00:26 PM 1145 Views
I can agree with that. Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:09:07 PM 901 Views
How can you agree with it? Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:13:55 PM 1106 Views
I'm thinking Berowin here... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:16:41 PM 1107 Views
Exactly. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:18:19 PM 970 Views
... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:12:21 PM 901 Views
Agreed, but... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:13:59 PM 1057 Views
Re: Agreed, but... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:16:30 PM 860 Views
Good point... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:18:53 PM 1066 Views
Or, you know, you're wrong? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:27:55 PM 935 Views
Re: Good point... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:28:02 PM 1142 Views
We've had this discussion before darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 01:59:34 PM 1053 Views
Or, you know, you can have the grace to question your antiquated strength list... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:22:51 PM 932 Views
The Bell Curve fits perfectly if one simple fact is true... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:31:31 PM 886 Views
Or, you know, you can stop misinterpreting Aviendha... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:40:05 PM 1016 Views
I'd be perfectly happy to adjust my list if it made sense Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:32:35 PM 876 Views
Uhhh? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:41:59 PM 877 Views
Re: Uhhh? Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:48:58 PM 879 Views
DUDE! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:58:59 PM 909 Views
Re: DUDE! Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:09:11 PM 882 Views
I explained... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:27:44 PM 893 Views
Re: I explained... Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:45:58 PM 1046 Views
Rand seems to shield Egwene and Elayne TOGETHER, pretty easily... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:54:03 PM 1551 Views
That's fairly simple, actually... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:08:53 PM 1129 Views
Nope. Rand was also cut off from the Source when he broke a shield held by 3 Aes Sedai... Shannow - 10/06/2010 11:18:41 PM 1086 Views
Because that channeler is much stronger? I'm not getting your confusion here. *NM* fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 11:27:31 PM 525 Views
Your Aes Sedai are close to the average woman in strength, right... Shannow - 10/06/2010 11:42:01 PM 1151 Views
You are making a couple of mistakes darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 02:28:41 PM 997 Views
You're missing an important point... fionwe1987 - 14/06/2010 11:10:55 PM 998 Views
Yes, what do you mean? You are actually proving our point... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:10:50 PM 862 Views
No, here's the quote: I hate having to pull out my books with their yellowed pages... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:01:54 PM 922 Views
Why would she need surprise against two? That was against five of them... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:04:57 PM 938 Views
That makes no sense whatsoever... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:06:53 PM 908 Views
Simply this... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:13:42 PM 931 Views
Very poor evidence Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:11:26 PM 1058 Views
No it isn't... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:18:09 PM 1009 Views
Re: No it isn't... Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:32:17 PM 1085 Views
no she said Egwene is stronger than Amys and Melaine combined darius_sedai - 11/06/2010 12:46:29 AM 1004 Views
The actual quote says Amys and Melaine combined... Shannow - 11/06/2010 12:25:07 PM 1049 Views
Here's the problem with that... fionwe1987 - 11/06/2010 12:42:41 PM 913 Views
Linked circles are more effective than individual channelers... Shannow - 11/06/2010 01:57:43 PM 1009 Views
That much stronger? fionwe1987 - 14/06/2010 11:06:18 PM 1075 Views
On this we agree. darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 02:34:45 PM 888 Views
I think you are misreading her. Skeeve the Great - 10/06/2010 07:47:06 PM 876 Views
Bingo *NM* Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:51:29 PM 612 Views
Please explain what you mean by "channeler" and "power" distribution. *NM* Logain - 10/06/2010 09:23:36 PM 560 Views
Re: Please explain what you mean by "channeler" and "power" distribution. Skeeve the Great - 10/06/2010 10:11:23 PM 1105 Views
Yes. You can't extrapolate a generalized macro level scale to micro level individuals. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 11/06/2010 12:16:24 AM 941 Views
I don't agree Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:49:41 PM 925 Views
BAH! Its infuriating how you have so many blinders... Eerily Aes Sedai of you. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:54:23 PM 1128 Views
Hmm... Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:55:59 PM 864 Views
Because of the question to which she responded... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:57:55 PM 871 Views
Re: Because of the question to which she responded... Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:06:16 PM 1028 Views
Without contradicting the latter... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:15:11 PM 909 Views
Ah well Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:20:32 PM 904 Views
Which is even more evidence... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:23:28 PM 990 Views
Dude Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:30:57 PM 1100 Views
It isn't omission fionwe1987 - 14/06/2010 10:54:47 PM 1061 Views
omg not this again *NM* BlackAdder - 10/06/2010 07:52:26 PM 1021 Views
Great! Two of my OP strength ideas have been solidified! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:39:53 PM 1133 Views
Nope... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:46:31 PM 989 Views
Who said Cadsuane was 50? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:51:14 PM 1026 Views
So how can Egwene be twice as strong as Moiraine, if Moiraine is at 55? Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:53:11 PM 891 Views
She cannot be because she isn't. Silviana can shield Egwene alone, for God's sake. So can Amys! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:56:26 PM 840 Views
Amys can't hold her properly Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:59:47 PM 870 Views
What about later that night? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:02:16 PM 874 Views
No she didn't darius_sedai - 16/06/2010 03:02:21 PM 994 Views
No she didn't what? fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 04:46:05 PM 1037 Views
Re: No she didn't what? darius_sedai - 17/06/2010 06:16:16 AM 882 Views
Re: No she didn't what? fionwe1987 - 17/06/2010 06:02:57 PM 1028 Views
you are arguing in a circle darius_sedai - 17/06/2010 06:31:19 PM 1356 Views
Why do you think it's a linear scale? Rurouni_Kenshin - 16/06/2010 05:25:56 AM 1004 Views
That's simple... fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 06:36:44 AM 952 Views
Re: That's simple... Rurouni_Kenshin - 16/06/2010 12:27:07 PM 906 Views
Your concept is not mathematically right. So yeah, forget discussing it. fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 04:41:13 PM 1092 Views
Dang, Cyndane isn't using Cabriana's body. Gher - 10/06/2010 08:25:20 PM 944 Views
But they didn't look alike anyway. *NM* Etzel - 10/06/2010 08:59:35 PM 605 Views
Eh, yeah. Gher - 12/06/2010 08:24:10 PM 896 Views
The blue flash RAFO irritates me- I can't see how that will be relevant. The Min thing was new beetnemesis - 10/06/2010 08:50:52 PM 1074 Views
RJ already RAFOed the incident with Thom's knives/daggers before Etzel - 10/06/2010 08:57:52 PM 1156 Views
They RAFO way too much. Tom - 11/06/2010 12:25:56 AM 879 Views
It isn't, unless she's implying the Creator helped him out or some other such thing RugbyPlayingAshaman - 11/06/2010 12:56:49 AM 903 Views
Just to make things clear on the strength thing... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:08:02 PM 1185 Views
It is possible Maria was answering the first question and ignoring the second... Logain - 10/06/2010 09:29:59 PM 911 Views
That still proves my point... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:33:10 PM 1083 Views
Re: That still proves my point... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:45:39 PM 952 Views
Then why... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:00:00 PM 1034 Views
Re: Then why... Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:07:56 PM 909 Views
God, what stupidity! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:10:32 PM 900 Views
Re: God, what stupidity! Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:16:38 PM 1001 Views
It doesn't have to be 1-100. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:32:17 PM 948 Views
Re: It doesn't have to be 1-100. Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:41:02 PM 1228 Views
That's a mathematical impossibility... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 11:26:23 PM 1067 Views
Just popping in. I think you're arguing over non-existent delineations. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 11/06/2010 12:44:40 AM 990 Views
You're pretty much agreeing with me, you know? fionwe1987 - 11/06/2010 12:32:44 PM 960 Views
Yes. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 14/06/2010 10:31:00 PM 1075 Views
Re: Just to make things clear on the strength thing... Bored - 14/06/2010 11:21:31 PM 1291 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 14/06/2010 11:48:43 PM 881 Views
Also interesting... Etzel - 10/06/2010 09:38:27 PM 1026 Views
I'm even more confused (parallel worlds and the Pattern) entyti - 10/06/2010 09:48:17 PM 996 Views
Nah,... DomA - 11/06/2010 11:38:20 AM 977 Views
Fascinating! entyti - 13/06/2010 02:30:42 AM 1070 Views
You know, these things always end up pissing me off. Tom - 11/06/2010 12:25:05 AM 979 Views
I think she's saving that info for her WoT Encyclopedia. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 11/06/2010 12:54:38 AM 1041 Views
Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off. TaskmasterJack - 11/06/2010 03:22:53 AM 1092 Views
Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off. DomA - 11/06/2010 12:29:37 PM 1017 Views
I agree Etzel - 11/06/2010 01:14:36 PM 1131 Views
Re: I agree TaskmasterJack - 12/06/2010 03:02:32 PM 915 Views
BS didn't answer with "Read and find out" Etzel - 12/06/2010 03:28:05 PM 952 Views
We were speaking about Maria giving a RAFO on the topic, not Sanderson. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 13/06/2010 12:05:17 AM 540 Views
Actually she said "No"... *NM* Etzel - 13/06/2010 01:06:18 AM 632 Views
I'll rephrase then. It was about Maria saying that she considered giving a RAFO on the question. TaskmasterJack - 13/06/2010 01:44:19 AM 957 Views
Yeah, sorry for the rolly-eyed smiley! Was a bit mean... Etzel - 13/06/2010 09:19:13 AM 961 Views
I agree with Jack and Sidious and not with you. Tom - 11/06/2010 03:20:30 PM 1068 Views
Well, on the Thom question... Etzel - 11/06/2010 08:25:09 AM 934 Views
Yeah Sidious - 11/06/2010 08:26:33 AM 1044 Views
Re: Yeah darius_sedai - 15/06/2010 12:25:21 AM 898 Views
Eh, practically useless. callandor1000 - 14/06/2010 11:50:06 PM 906 Views
I agree. I think she is saving the good stuff for the encyclopedia. *NM* RugbyPlayingAshaman - 15/06/2010 04:17:07 PM 505 Views
Yeah. I do think she's taking advantage of these poor saps, though. callandor1000 - 17/06/2010 03:52:33 PM 1485 Views
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