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Re: Just to make things clear on the strength thing... Bored Send a noteboard - 14/06/2010 11:21:31 PM

20. Question--Is strength in the power evenly distributed? Would on a scale of one to one hundred the most channelers be on the 50 mark? (within a gender, of course).

Maria Answers--Jim described it as a bell curve, with most channelers in the middle.


Given some people are totally misrepresenting this answer...

Maria said "it" is a bell curve. What is this "it"?

Some would have us believe it is the distribution over the 21 levels.

Yet, whatever "it" is the pronoun for, it must be in the question. I can see nothing about the 21 levels.

What "it" can be:

1) Distribution of strength in the power (which the questioner asked about).

2) If one were to think weird grammar was the order of the day, it could be the scale from 1 to 100.

Either way, it is very clear that the bell curve explains the distribution of strength, not over strength levels.

Which is what RJ said. He always spoke of a bell curve distribution of strength, not of strength levels.

I rest my case.



Good lord I hate this argument.

Try to read her response this way: "Jim described it as a bell curve, with most channelers in the middle of the bell curve"

Italicized part by me.

The quote says nothing about the center of the bell curve being centered on some arbitrary scale of strength. It only says that there is a large grouping around a peak point and decreasing numbers of channelers the further you get from the arbitrary center in either direction.

This is the very difinition of a bell curve.
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Several good MAFOs from Dragonmount Etzel - 10/06/2010 07:07:55 PM 2330 Views
Some good RAFOs here Skeeve the Great - 10/06/2010 07:31:56 PM 1082 Views
Yeah... Etzel - 10/06/2010 07:36:55 PM 966 Views
Maria's answer to question 20 is ground-breaking! Logain - 10/06/2010 07:36:40 PM 1269 Views
No, it merely means that the Bell Curve does not refer to absolute strength... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:42:31 PM 1115 Views
See the question again man! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:48:57 PM 1086 Views
That contradicts your assertion that Moiraine is stronger than the average woman... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:50:11 PM 1181 Views
How? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:54:41 PM 1117 Views
I need to re-evaluate nothing! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:46:20 PM 1117 Views
Think logically for a moment... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:49:10 PM 940 Views
Who said Egwene is twice as strong as Moiraine? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:52:27 PM 1238 Views
Aviendha did in FoH... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:54:32 PM 926 Views
Nope! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:55:55 PM 1099 Views
Your quotes are faulty Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:57:18 PM 1110 Views
In what sense though? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:59:00 PM 1096 Views
Forkroot Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:04:50 PM 1054 Views
Again... later that night? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:05:39 PM 909 Views
What do you mean? Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:07:24 PM 1093 Views
See below... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:11:24 PM 968 Views
Re: See below... Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:12:34 PM 1038 Views
I just did. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:16:09 PM 875 Views
Well then we disagree Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:18:10 PM 1087 Views
BUT WHAT ABOUT LATER IN THE NIGHT! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:20:21 PM 910 Views
Ah, you mean later later ... Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:29:59 PM 1014 Views
Forkroot wears off, you know? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:45:33 PM 1108 Views
Yes I know Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:05:29 PM 1111 Views
I've explained it before in this thread... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:17:10 PM 1088 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:37:39 PM 1081 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:51:40 PM 1016 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread... Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:05:37 PM 1058 Views
Are you sure you're feeling fine? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:18:44 PM 1107 Views
Re: Are you sure you're feeling fine? Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:29:04 PM 1210 Views
Re: Are you sure you're feeling fine? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:47:00 PM 1003 Views
RJ writes that Amys cannot hold Egwene. BS writes that Barasene can. Who are you gonna believe? Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:31:35 PM 925 Views
It wasn't BS... both were RJ! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:41:54 PM 1011 Views
In that case, there is no problem... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:45:05 PM 1132 Views
But that isn't what the text says... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:57:42 PM 881 Views
How can Egwene be strong enough to overcome Katerine and Silviana together then? Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:07:36 PM 1122 Views
She also says Egwene is Aes Sedai in the same sentence... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:25:16 PM 1147 Views
Yeah, both were RJ Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:49:13 PM 993 Views
Yeah yeah... RJ lied, Maria lied. Only you make sense. I'm finished with this debate. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:59:06 PM 1086 Views
Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:07:52 PM 1082 Views
Really? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:29:22 PM 946 Views
Re: Really? Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:39:21 PM 1046 Views
Re: Really? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:43:41 PM 928 Views
Re: Really? Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:50:23 PM 1091 Views
I haven't refuted? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:53:17 PM 1130 Views
Here's what is clear: Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:02:41 PM 988 Views
IMO it's easy to disprove Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:22:23 PM 973 Views
Dude... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:27:34 PM 882 Views
At least we agree on one thing Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:29:14 PM 994 Views
No... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:32:06 PM 949 Views
Re: No... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:43:59 PM 1070 Views
fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:57:25 PM 929 Views
Re: Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:12:29 PM 1013 Views
Re: fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:34:28 PM 1028 Views
Thought on this darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 01:09:29 PM 936 Views
yet 4 women can still hold Rand in LoC ... he can't break the Shield until it's down to 3 darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 12:47:43 PM 818 Views
Have to agree with Sidious on this point darius_sedai - 11/06/2010 02:49:58 AM 919 Views
That was kind of my point... fionwe1987 - 11/06/2010 12:19:23 PM 651 Views
of course Katerine would have complained darius_sedai - 12/06/2010 12:53:31 PM 1041 Views
The rate forkroot wears off? Rurouni_Kenshin - 16/06/2010 12:36:38 PM 1035 Views
You missed that she isn't being given Forkroot at night at all! fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 04:47:59 PM 941 Views
Typos, screwed up what I meant Rurouni_Kenshin - 17/06/2010 02:31:50 AM 946 Views
You are... fionwe1987 - 17/06/2010 04:32:47 AM 1168 Views
Maria's other answer adresses this... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:14:54 PM 824 Views
Then one Aes Sedai cannot shield her. But one did. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:16:41 PM 943 Views
You can be much weaker than someone, and hold them shielded, if they are already cut off... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:19:15 PM 925 Views
But, if you are much stronger, you can break that shield... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:22:25 PM 935 Views
Easy... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:24:59 PM 902 Views
What has that got to do with it? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:32:56 PM 1089 Views
Amys is not LESS than half of Egwene's strength. You cannot hold someone if you are LESS than half.. Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:47:41 PM 1002 Views
Amys is as strong as Moiraine, at the most one level lower. Barasine is weaker than Katarine, who... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:00:26 PM 1130 Views
I can agree with that. Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:09:07 PM 891 Views
How can you agree with it? Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:13:55 PM 1093 Views
I'm thinking Berowin here... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:16:41 PM 1094 Views
Exactly. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:18:19 PM 951 Views
... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:12:21 PM 884 Views
Agreed, but... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:13:59 PM 1044 Views
Re: Agreed, but... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:16:30 PM 847 Views
Good point... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:18:53 PM 1056 Views
Or, you know, you're wrong? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:27:55 PM 925 Views
Re: Good point... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:28:02 PM 1124 Views
We've had this discussion before darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 01:59:34 PM 1033 Views
Or, you know, you can have the grace to question your antiquated strength list... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:22:51 PM 920 Views
The Bell Curve fits perfectly if one simple fact is true... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:31:31 PM 871 Views
Or, you know, you can stop misinterpreting Aviendha... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:40:05 PM 999 Views
I'd be perfectly happy to adjust my list if it made sense Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:32:35 PM 866 Views
Uhhh? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:41:59 PM 866 Views
Re: Uhhh? Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:48:58 PM 865 Views
DUDE! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:58:59 PM 896 Views
Re: DUDE! Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:09:11 PM 865 Views
I explained... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:27:44 PM 878 Views
Re: I explained... Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:45:58 PM 1034 Views
Rand seems to shield Egwene and Elayne TOGETHER, pretty easily... Shannow - 10/06/2010 09:54:03 PM 1532 Views
That's fairly simple, actually... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:08:53 PM 1116 Views
Nope. Rand was also cut off from the Source when he broke a shield held by 3 Aes Sedai... Shannow - 10/06/2010 11:18:41 PM 1069 Views
Because that channeler is much stronger? I'm not getting your confusion here. *NM* fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 11:27:31 PM 515 Views
Your Aes Sedai are close to the average woman in strength, right... Shannow - 10/06/2010 11:42:01 PM 1135 Views
You are making a couple of mistakes darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 02:28:41 PM 989 Views
You're missing an important point... fionwe1987 - 14/06/2010 11:10:55 PM 979 Views
Yes, what do you mean? You are actually proving our point... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:10:50 PM 849 Views
No, here's the quote: I hate having to pull out my books with their yellowed pages... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:01:54 PM 910 Views
Why would she need surprise against two? That was against five of them... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:04:57 PM 927 Views
That makes no sense whatsoever... Shannow - 10/06/2010 08:06:53 PM 897 Views
Simply this... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:13:42 PM 917 Views
Very poor evidence Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:11:26 PM 1044 Views
No it isn't... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:18:09 PM 991 Views
Re: No it isn't... Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:32:17 PM 1068 Views
no she said Egwene is stronger than Amys and Melaine combined darius_sedai - 11/06/2010 12:46:29 AM 992 Views
The actual quote says Amys and Melaine combined... Shannow - 11/06/2010 12:25:07 PM 1037 Views
Here's the problem with that... fionwe1987 - 11/06/2010 12:42:41 PM 899 Views
Linked circles are more effective than individual channelers... Shannow - 11/06/2010 01:57:43 PM 996 Views
That much stronger? fionwe1987 - 14/06/2010 11:06:18 PM 1059 Views
On this we agree. darius_sedai - 13/06/2010 02:34:45 PM 877 Views
I think you are misreading her. Skeeve the Great - 10/06/2010 07:47:06 PM 862 Views
Bingo *NM* Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:51:29 PM 604 Views
Please explain what you mean by "channeler" and "power" distribution. *NM* Logain - 10/06/2010 09:23:36 PM 552 Views
Re: Please explain what you mean by "channeler" and "power" distribution. Skeeve the Great - 10/06/2010 10:11:23 PM 1094 Views
Yes. You can't extrapolate a generalized macro level scale to micro level individuals. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 11/06/2010 12:16:24 AM 928 Views
I don't agree Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:49:41 PM 912 Views
BAH! Its infuriating how you have so many blinders... Eerily Aes Sedai of you. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:54:23 PM 1113 Views
Hmm... Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:55:59 PM 851 Views
Because of the question to which she responded... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:57:55 PM 858 Views
Re: Because of the question to which she responded... Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:06:16 PM 1017 Views
Without contradicting the latter... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:15:11 PM 898 Views
Ah well Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:20:32 PM 891 Views
Which is even more evidence... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:23:28 PM 976 Views
Dude Sidious - 10/06/2010 08:30:57 PM 1084 Views
It isn't omission fionwe1987 - 14/06/2010 10:54:47 PM 1049 Views
omg not this again *NM* BlackAdder - 10/06/2010 07:52:26 PM 1009 Views
Great! Two of my OP strength ideas have been solidified! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:39:53 PM 1120 Views
Nope... Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:46:31 PM 978 Views
Who said Cadsuane was 50? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:51:14 PM 1015 Views
So how can Egwene be twice as strong as Moiraine, if Moiraine is at 55? Shannow - 10/06/2010 07:53:11 PM 876 Views
She cannot be because she isn't. Silviana can shield Egwene alone, for God's sake. So can Amys! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 07:56:26 PM 821 Views
Amys can't hold her properly Sidious - 10/06/2010 07:59:47 PM 855 Views
What about later that night? fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 08:02:16 PM 859 Views
No she didn't darius_sedai - 16/06/2010 03:02:21 PM 978 Views
No she didn't what? fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 04:46:05 PM 1026 Views
Re: No she didn't what? darius_sedai - 17/06/2010 06:16:16 AM 865 Views
Re: No she didn't what? fionwe1987 - 17/06/2010 06:02:57 PM 1019 Views
you are arguing in a circle darius_sedai - 17/06/2010 06:31:19 PM 1340 Views
Why do you think it's a linear scale? Rurouni_Kenshin - 16/06/2010 05:25:56 AM 989 Views
That's simple... fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 06:36:44 AM 938 Views
Re: That's simple... Rurouni_Kenshin - 16/06/2010 12:27:07 PM 894 Views
Your concept is not mathematically right. So yeah, forget discussing it. fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 04:41:13 PM 1082 Views
Dang, Cyndane isn't using Cabriana's body. Gher - 10/06/2010 08:25:20 PM 931 Views
But they didn't look alike anyway. *NM* Etzel - 10/06/2010 08:59:35 PM 599 Views
Eh, yeah. Gher - 12/06/2010 08:24:10 PM 880 Views
The blue flash RAFO irritates me- I can't see how that will be relevant. The Min thing was new beetnemesis - 10/06/2010 08:50:52 PM 1058 Views
RJ already RAFOed the incident with Thom's knives/daggers before Etzel - 10/06/2010 08:57:52 PM 1142 Views
They RAFO way too much. Tom - 11/06/2010 12:25:56 AM 861 Views
It isn't, unless she's implying the Creator helped him out or some other such thing RugbyPlayingAshaman - 11/06/2010 12:56:49 AM 890 Views
Just to make things clear on the strength thing... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:08:02 PM 1169 Views
It is possible Maria was answering the first question and ignoring the second... Logain - 10/06/2010 09:29:59 PM 899 Views
That still proves my point... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 09:33:10 PM 1069 Views
Re: That still proves my point... Sidious - 10/06/2010 09:45:39 PM 940 Views
Then why... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:00:00 PM 1023 Views
Re: Then why... Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:07:56 PM 901 Views
God, what stupidity! fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:10:32 PM 883 Views
Re: God, what stupidity! Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:16:38 PM 989 Views
It doesn't have to be 1-100. fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 10:32:17 PM 935 Views
Re: It doesn't have to be 1-100. Sidious - 10/06/2010 10:41:02 PM 1218 Views
That's a mathematical impossibility... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2010 11:26:23 PM 1057 Views
Just popping in. I think you're arguing over non-existent delineations. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 11/06/2010 12:44:40 AM 976 Views
You're pretty much agreeing with me, you know? fionwe1987 - 11/06/2010 12:32:44 PM 949 Views
Yes. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 14/06/2010 10:31:00 PM 1062 Views
Re: Just to make things clear on the strength thing... Bored - 14/06/2010 11:21:31 PM 1275 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 14/06/2010 11:48:43 PM 864 Views
Also interesting... Etzel - 10/06/2010 09:38:27 PM 1015 Views
I'm even more confused (parallel worlds and the Pattern) entyti - 10/06/2010 09:48:17 PM 984 Views
Nah,... DomA - 11/06/2010 11:38:20 AM 968 Views
Fascinating! entyti - 13/06/2010 02:30:42 AM 1052 Views
You know, these things always end up pissing me off. Tom - 11/06/2010 12:25:05 AM 967 Views
I think she's saving that info for her WoT Encyclopedia. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 11/06/2010 12:54:38 AM 1028 Views
Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off. TaskmasterJack - 11/06/2010 03:22:53 AM 1072 Views
Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off. DomA - 11/06/2010 12:29:37 PM 1007 Views
I agree Etzel - 11/06/2010 01:14:36 PM 1118 Views
Re: I agree TaskmasterJack - 12/06/2010 03:02:32 PM 899 Views
BS didn't answer with "Read and find out" Etzel - 12/06/2010 03:28:05 PM 939 Views
We were speaking about Maria giving a RAFO on the topic, not Sanderson. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 13/06/2010 12:05:17 AM 531 Views
Actually she said "No"... *NM* Etzel - 13/06/2010 01:06:18 AM 625 Views
I'll rephrase then. It was about Maria saying that she considered giving a RAFO on the question. TaskmasterJack - 13/06/2010 01:44:19 AM 947 Views
Yeah, sorry for the rolly-eyed smiley! Was a bit mean... Etzel - 13/06/2010 09:19:13 AM 951 Views
I agree with Jack and Sidious and not with you. Tom - 11/06/2010 03:20:30 PM 1057 Views
Well, on the Thom question... Etzel - 11/06/2010 08:25:09 AM 924 Views
Yeah Sidious - 11/06/2010 08:26:33 AM 1033 Views
Re: Yeah darius_sedai - 15/06/2010 12:25:21 AM 887 Views
Eh, practically useless. callandor1000 - 14/06/2010 11:50:06 PM 890 Views
I agree. I think she is saving the good stuff for the encyclopedia. *NM* RugbyPlayingAshaman - 15/06/2010 04:17:07 PM 496 Views
Yeah. I do think she's taking advantage of these poor saps, though. callandor1000 - 17/06/2010 03:52:33 PM 1470 Views
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