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I cannot believe you're so obtuse... or then again, I can. fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 15/06/2010 09:26:04 PM

The closer you are in strength, the more uncertain it becomes that you will be able to shield someone. If you are exactly equal, the chances of success are very slim. In fact, in Nynaeve's case, it was proven that although she was equal to Talaan, she was unable to shield her, and was in fact shielded herself because Talaan was more skilled.

So it became a battle of skill, which Nynaeve lost.

But the point remains that neither Tallaan nor Nynaeve is too weak to shield the other. There is a slimmer chance that there would have been if one of them had been much stronger, but not no chance.

As for Verin and Graendal's cases. See above. Verin and Alanna's shield was hopelessly weaker than Rand's connection to the source. So much weaker that he did not even have to bother to resist it.

Exactly. Lanfears shield was not so weak. It was strong enough that Rand had to actively resist it, or face being unable to use the Power.

Same with Graendal and Verin's case. Graendal was channeling through an angreal and the thickness of her connection was either exceeded Verin's shield strength by too great a margin, or Verin's shield was of insufficient precision to slice through it.

See above.
We know Lanfear is very dexterous, and can therefore no doubt create shield with a much sharper "edge", meaning in effect that she can punch above her weight in strength.

NO! Like all women, her dexterity increases her effective strength, which is why she is a match for Lews Therin, and why she can contemplate shielding Rand.
But as I said before, if it was Lews Therin in front of her, instead of the untrained, ignorant Rand, she would have had no chance.

How so? Ignorance, or lack thereof, won't make an ounce of difference to your strength in the power. Sure, Lews Therin could have pressed her, so she wouldn't have bothered with shields and would have only used deadly weaves. But that doesn't change the fact that barring a defense, Lanfear is strong enough to shield Rand/LTT.

Ishamael could not even cut Lews Therin off from the source. How on earth could Lanfear hope to do it then?

When did Ishy try to shield LTT?
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No three women could block him from the Source... Logain - 15/06/2010 06:52:17 PM 2142 Views
I think that is total BS, since the books have proved otherwise more than once... fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 07:22:16 PM 1227 Views
I think he means that it would take three such women to smother him Sidious - 15/06/2010 07:45:03 PM 1291 Views
Ahhh... I can kind of agree with that... fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 08:05:46 PM 1359 Views
Yes, that is what he meant. Another interesting twist... Logain - 16/06/2010 01:34:18 AM 1368 Views
Agreed. Good analysis. Shannow - 16/06/2010 07:48:36 AM 1297 Views
Re: I think that is total BS, since the books have proved otherwise more than once... randfandom - 15/06/2010 08:17:47 PM 1233 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 08:19:21 PM 1341 Views
Re: Huh? randfandom - 15/06/2010 08:31:17 PM 1167 Views
fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 08:43:12 PM 1237 Views
Re: Code_Man65 - 15/06/2010 08:47:05 PM 1069 Views
No, this is before. fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 08:49:13 PM 1142 Views
Well that's a different quote from the one you used before, and this one shows Lanfear not succeedin Shannow - 15/06/2010 08:52:00 PM 1151 Views
I never used a quote before. And there's no quote where Lanfear's shield is not succeeding. fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 08:52:28 PM 1028 Views
Simple answer to settle it: Shannow - 15/06/2010 09:00:22 PM 1048 Views
So Talaan is God? fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:04:44 PM 1226 Views
It Rand had half Lews Therin's skill at the time, she would stand no chance..SKILL was her advantage Shannow - 15/06/2010 09:08:41 PM 1142 Views
Skill has nothing to do with how strong a person is. fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:11:13 PM 1117 Views
So? Sidious - 15/06/2010 09:15:01 PM 1110 Views
Nope, YOU said he was talking about smothering him, whatever that's supposed to mean... Shannow - 15/06/2010 09:26:53 PM 1114 Views
Oh My God! That's such utter tripe... EDIT... fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:30:29 PM 1165 Views
That's exactly how I understood you. Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 09:30:42 PM 1034 Views
You do know that this was AFTER Lanfear had picked up the bracelet angreal, right? Shannow - 15/06/2010 08:49:47 PM 1135 Views
It was before... both of them start using an angreal after this. fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 08:52:02 PM 1052 Views
Nope. 6 Aes Sedai couldn't take Raolain Darksbane or Yurian Stonebow...Semirhage = 3 Aes Sedai Shannow - 15/06/2010 08:26:21 PM 1102 Views
Lanfear can do it alone Sidious - 15/06/2010 08:45:09 PM 1096 Views
She ATTEMPTS to cut him off, when he is not at full strength or full training yet... Shannow - 15/06/2010 08:55:39 PM 1049 Views
Plus, Rand was splitting his flows, IIRC. Meaning he wasn't 100% one-on-one with her. Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 08:57:35 PM 1098 Views
She was splitting her flows too... she was slicing his weaves of Air. fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 08:59:00 PM 1104 Views
Bah! fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 08:58:26 PM 1098 Views
I repeat: You cannot shield someone unless you are significantly stronger than they are... Shannow - 15/06/2010 09:02:55 PM 1033 Views
Explain Talaan shielding Nynaeve then. Or the two BA shielding her. fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:05:21 PM 2008 Views
It becomes a battle of skill then... Shannow - 15/06/2010 09:09:42 PM 1193 Views
BUT... fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:12:47 PM 1111 Views
Then by your own definition you do not have to be significantly stronger to shield someone darius_sedai - 15/06/2010 11:28:44 PM 1072 Views
Re: "he would have had no need to cut her weaves" Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 09:03:39 PM 1050 Views
No. There's a difference. fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:07:09 PM 1231 Views
Oh come on... fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 08:48:56 PM 1238 Views
I know you are not that ignorant... Shannow - 15/06/2010 09:07:02 PM 1038 Views
But that isn't true... fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:10:37 PM 1065 Views
Let me spell it out for you... Shannow - 15/06/2010 09:18:04 PM 1091 Views
Re: Let me spell it out for you... Sidious - 15/06/2010 09:21:02 PM 1084 Views
Don't put words in my, or Lews Therin's, mouth... Shannow - 15/06/2010 09:33:50 PM 1215 Views
??? darius_sedai - 15/06/2010 10:43:28 PM 1235 Views
+1. It ridiculous comparison. Rand even didn't know how to shield a woman. Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 09:22:22 PM 1074 Views
Now that's a ridiculous comparison Sidious - 15/06/2010 09:24:45 PM 1195 Views
Exactly! fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:28:20 PM 1205 Views
Touchy point, heh? Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 09:28:47 PM 1139 Views
Then how come Lanfear never died? We know she made attempts to capture him. fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:31:20 PM 1203 Views
Whom? LTT? Can you elaborate? Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 09:33:25 PM 1160 Views
If you wish... fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:34:38 PM 924 Views
Re: If you wish... Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 09:36:30 PM 928 Views
Whyever not? fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:39:22 PM 1007 Views
Re: Whyever not? Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 09:41:22 PM 893 Views
Even in that situation fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:43:04 PM 1178 Views
Re: Even in that situation Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 09:47:36 PM 1164 Views
Okay... fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:59:36 PM 1105 Views
Re: Okay... Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 10:39:01 PM 1078 Views
So, if it doesn't agree with your view, its fuzzy, even when that is what the books say? *NM* fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 10:42:48 PM 620 Views
What? Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 10:45:16 PM 1035 Views
If we use your interpretation of the statements. *NM* fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 10:49:21 PM 527 Views
Re: If we use your interpretation of the statements. Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 10:54:48 PM 953 Views
Okay, here's what I think you're saying... fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 11:00:19 PM 1133 Views
Re: Okay, here's what I think you're saying... Skeeve the Great - 15/06/2010 11:10:57 PM 1088 Views
Sorry for the mixup... BUT... fionwe1987 - 16/06/2010 12:28:31 AM 1134 Views
Hehehe! Classic. Maybe his hands were full of her...err..Globes of Fire... Shannow - 15/06/2010 09:47:35 PM 1031 Views
I cannot believe you're so obtuse... or then again, I can. fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:26:04 PM 1160 Views
About how strong you have to be to shield someone... fionwe1987 - 15/06/2010 09:14:31 PM 928 Views
It's like women's tennis. Put the best up against a middling men's tennis player and they lose. *NM* Tom - 16/06/2010 12:18:06 AM 461 Views
Re: No three women could block him from the Source... Underwood - 16/06/2010 04:00:00 PM 1009 Views
+1 Skeeve the Great - 16/06/2010 05:54:51 PM 1081 Views
darius_sedai - 16/06/2010 08:48:39 PM 1323 Views
Re: Skeeve the Great - 16/06/2010 08:56:31 PM 958 Views
indeed you have darius_sedai - 16/06/2010 09:34:22 PM 1191 Views
Bad analogy... fionwe1987 - 17/06/2010 04:23:31 AM 991 Views
Uh... Sidious - 17/06/2010 09:08:01 AM 1026 Views
I disagree. LordPerrin - 16/06/2010 04:03:52 PM 1166 Views
That's wrong. Rand said 2 AS + Moghedien could threaten him Logain - 16/06/2010 05:17:33 PM 1148 Views
Huh. I forgot about that. LordPerrin - 17/06/2010 04:29:38 PM 1219 Views
go back a few posts... Kieran - 17/06/2010 03:41:42 AM 1064 Views
yet Nynaeve and Talaan can shield one another darius_sedai - 17/06/2010 05:57:09 AM 1070 Views
I'd like to think Egwene, Elayne and Aviendha could RugbyPlayingAshaman - 17/06/2010 04:19:22 PM 989 Views
Agreed darius_sedai - 17/06/2010 05:59:39 PM 892 Views
I don't think there's any theme Sidious - 17/06/2010 08:25:52 PM 1210 Views
I don't think they are meant to controll him in someway darius_sedai - 17/06/2010 10:21:09 PM 1090 Views
They have a separate trinity. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 18/06/2010 06:51:27 PM 1083 Views
They might be able to, but then they are not 3 women of <b>average AS</b> strength Logain - 17/06/2010 07:10:14 PM 1059 Views
They would be far more than 3 average AS darius_sedai - 17/06/2010 08:07:30 PM 1073 Views
No, that's not right either. Lews Therin Telamon - 18/06/2010 12:37:37 AM 1118 Views
I disagree darius_sedai - 18/06/2010 06:07:10 AM 1202 Views
Another related quote Skeeve the Great - 18/06/2010 07:49:33 PM 1051 Views
well, in the same book about 5 minutes after Lanfear almost kicks Rands ass darius_sedai - 18/06/2010 08:11:49 PM 1113 Views
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