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??? darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 15/06/2010 10:43:28 PM

Yes, because he did not know how to resist them. If you don't resist, then of course she can cut your connection. Just holding onto the Source means you leave yourself defenseless.

That isn't true at all. Verin and co. threw a shield at Graendal. Graendal did nothing, yet the shield bounced off. Verin and Alanna threw a shield at Rand in LoC. He did nothing, and the shield bounced off.

Of course six Aes Sedai can hold him. But it takes a LOT more to cut you off if you are already holding the Source. Come on, that's One Power 101. Even you know that.

Yes, but who said the six sisters against the False Dragons were trying to shield him? It was a battle, by all accounts, and not a shielding match.

Again, to shield someone who is already holding the Source, you must be MUCH stronger than they are. Something like 50% stronger, if the books are any indication. Was Rand sure that he is 50% stronger than 7 Aes Sedai, whose individual strengths he doesn't know, and who might or might not have angreal with them?

Was Talaan even .1% stronger than Nynaeve?

How was he to know.

Because he has an idea of how strong AS are from seeing how strong the strongest among them is?
If one of them was Moghedien, she would be dangerous enough. Maybe not to shield him, but very dangerous to confront.

She would be able to shield him. Unless he cut her shield.


The closer you are in strength, the more uncertain it becomes that you will be able to shield someone. If you are exactly equal, the chances of success are very slim. In fact, in Nynaeve's case, it was proven that although she was equal to Talaan, she was unable to shield her, and was in fact shielded herself because Talaan was more skilled.

So it became a battle of skill, which Nynaeve lost.

As for Verin and Graendal's cases. See above. Verin and Alanna's shield was hopelessly weaker than Rand's connection to the source. So much weaker that he did not even have to bother to resist it.

Same with Graendal and Verin's case. Graendal was channeling through an angreal and the thickness of her connection was either exceeded Verin's shield strength by too great a margin, or Verin's shield was of insufficient precision to slice through it.

We know Lanfear is very dexterous, and can therefore no doubt create shield with a much sharper "edge", meaning in effect that she can punch above her weight in strength.

But as I said before, if it was Lews Therin in front of her, instead of the untrained, ignorant Rand, she would have had no chance.

Ishamael could not even cut Lews Therin off from the source. How on earth could Lanfear hope to do it then?


There's no proof that Rand made a massive jump in strength and skill after this. A chapter later he fought Rahvin, and earlier in the book he got into a direct battle with Sammael. How unskilled could he be compared to Lews Therin? Are you telling me that you could add a second Lanfear and Lews Therin would be able to hold them off?


Rand only "remembered" how to slice a weave of saidar in the midst of fending of Lanfear's attack at the Docks. Thanks to Asmodaen's teachings, he had far more knowledge and practice in how to counter weaves of saidin, than weaves of saidar.

So yes, he DOES make significant leaps in knowledge after FoH. He is not even at full knowledge yet at any time in the series, until he merges with Lews Therin at the end of Book 12.

Regarding strength: Whatever the difference in strength between Rahvin and Lews Therin was, that is how much Rand still grows after FoH. And since Rahvin was never mentioned as being close to Lews Therin in strength, it may well be a significant increase.

Lastly, nice try in attempting to catch me with a sneaky one. Lews Therin never said it would take 3 women as strong as Lanfear to shield him from the source. He said it would take 3 women as strong as Semirhage or Mesaaana.

I believe that two Lanfears WOULD be able to shield him, and that merely strengthens my belief that there is a larger gap between Lanfear and the other female Forsaken than 5-10% that some of you propose.


When did Lanfear become that much stronger than the others? If she was really like 25% stronger than the other women, Graendal would never have challenged her openly in tFoH. Rhavin would have never wondered if that battle would last long enough for Balefire to be used, and the other FS women would not be anywhere close to strong enough to have survived. Moghedien is probably about 15% weaker than Lanfear, and she is the outlier!

Why do people feel it so necessary to make certain characters so strong? The FS measure each other on their skills and deeds, not their OP strength.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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No three women could block him from the Source... - 15/06/2010 06:52:17 PM 2143 Views
I think that is total BS, since the books have proved otherwise more than once... - 15/06/2010 07:22:16 PM 1227 Views
I think he means that it would take three such women to smother him - 15/06/2010 07:45:03 PM 1291 Views
Ahhh... I can kind of agree with that... - 15/06/2010 08:05:46 PM 1360 Views
Yes, that is what he meant. Another interesting twist... - 16/06/2010 01:34:18 AM 1369 Views
Agreed. Good analysis. - 16/06/2010 07:48:36 AM 1297 Views
Re: I think that is total BS, since the books have proved otherwise more than once... - 15/06/2010 08:17:47 PM 1233 Views
Huh? - 15/06/2010 08:19:21 PM 1341 Views
Re: Huh? - 15/06/2010 08:31:17 PM 1167 Views
- 15/06/2010 08:43:12 PM 1237 Views
Re: - 15/06/2010 08:47:05 PM 1070 Views
No, this is before. - 15/06/2010 08:49:13 PM 1142 Views
Well that's a different quote from the one you used before, and this one shows Lanfear not succeedin - 15/06/2010 08:52:00 PM 1151 Views
I never used a quote before. And there's no quote where Lanfear's shield is not succeeding. - 15/06/2010 08:52:28 PM 1028 Views
Simple answer to settle it: - 15/06/2010 09:00:22 PM 1048 Views
So Talaan is God? - 15/06/2010 09:04:44 PM 1226 Views
It Rand had half Lews Therin's skill at the time, she would stand no chance..SKILL was her advantage - 15/06/2010 09:08:41 PM 1142 Views
Skill has nothing to do with how strong a person is. - 15/06/2010 09:11:13 PM 1118 Views
So? - 15/06/2010 09:15:01 PM 1110 Views
Nope, YOU said he was talking about smothering him, whatever that's supposed to mean... - 15/06/2010 09:26:53 PM 1114 Views
Oh My God! That's such utter tripe... EDIT... - 15/06/2010 09:30:29 PM 1165 Views
That's exactly how I understood you. - 15/06/2010 09:30:42 PM 1034 Views
Nope. 6 Aes Sedai couldn't take Raolain Darksbane or Yurian Stonebow...Semirhage = 3 Aes Sedai - 15/06/2010 08:26:21 PM 1102 Views
Lanfear can do it alone - 15/06/2010 08:45:09 PM 1096 Views
She ATTEMPTS to cut him off, when he is not at full strength or full training yet... - 15/06/2010 08:55:39 PM 1050 Views
Plus, Rand was splitting his flows, IIRC. Meaning he wasn't 100% one-on-one with her. - 15/06/2010 08:57:35 PM 1099 Views
She was splitting her flows too... she was slicing his weaves of Air. - 15/06/2010 08:59:00 PM 1105 Views
Bah! - 15/06/2010 08:58:26 PM 1098 Views
I repeat: You cannot shield someone unless you are significantly stronger than they are... - 15/06/2010 09:02:55 PM 1033 Views
Explain Talaan shielding Nynaeve then. Or the two BA shielding her. - 15/06/2010 09:05:21 PM 2008 Views
It becomes a battle of skill then... - 15/06/2010 09:09:42 PM 1193 Views
BUT... - 15/06/2010 09:12:47 PM 1111 Views
Re: "he would have had no need to cut her weaves" - 15/06/2010 09:03:39 PM 1050 Views
No. There's a difference. - 15/06/2010 09:07:09 PM 1231 Views
Oh come on... - 15/06/2010 08:48:56 PM 1238 Views
I know you are not that ignorant... - 15/06/2010 09:07:02 PM 1038 Views
But that isn't true... - 15/06/2010 09:10:37 PM 1066 Views
Let me spell it out for you... - 15/06/2010 09:18:04 PM 1091 Views
Re: Let me spell it out for you... - 15/06/2010 09:21:02 PM 1084 Views
Don't put words in my, or Lews Therin's, mouth... - 15/06/2010 09:33:50 PM 1215 Views
??? - 15/06/2010 10:43:28 PM 1236 Views
+1. It ridiculous comparison. Rand even didn't know how to shield a woman. - 15/06/2010 09:22:22 PM 1074 Views
Now that's a ridiculous comparison - 15/06/2010 09:24:45 PM 1196 Views
Exactly! - 15/06/2010 09:28:20 PM 1205 Views
Touchy point, heh? - 15/06/2010 09:28:47 PM 1139 Views
Then how come Lanfear never died? We know she made attempts to capture him. - 15/06/2010 09:31:20 PM 1203 Views
Whom? LTT? Can you elaborate? - 15/06/2010 09:33:25 PM 1160 Views
If you wish... - 15/06/2010 09:34:38 PM 924 Views
Re: If you wish... - 15/06/2010 09:36:30 PM 929 Views
Whyever not? - 15/06/2010 09:39:22 PM 1008 Views
Re: Whyever not? - 15/06/2010 09:41:22 PM 893 Views
Even in that situation - 15/06/2010 09:43:04 PM 1178 Views
Re: Even in that situation - 15/06/2010 09:47:36 PM 1165 Views
Okay... - 15/06/2010 09:59:36 PM 1105 Views
Re: Okay... - 15/06/2010 10:39:01 PM 1078 Views
So, if it doesn't agree with your view, its fuzzy, even when that is what the books say? *NM* - 15/06/2010 10:42:48 PM 621 Views
What? - 15/06/2010 10:45:16 PM 1035 Views
If we use your interpretation of the statements. *NM* - 15/06/2010 10:49:21 PM 527 Views
Re: If we use your interpretation of the statements. - 15/06/2010 10:54:48 PM 953 Views
Okay, here's what I think you're saying... - 15/06/2010 11:00:19 PM 1133 Views
Re: Okay, here's what I think you're saying... - 15/06/2010 11:10:57 PM 1088 Views
Sorry for the mixup... BUT... - 16/06/2010 12:28:31 AM 1134 Views
I cannot believe you're so obtuse... or then again, I can. - 15/06/2010 09:26:04 PM 1160 Views
About how strong you have to be to shield someone... - 15/06/2010 09:14:31 PM 928 Views
Re: No three women could block him from the Source... - 16/06/2010 04:00:00 PM 1009 Views
+1 - 16/06/2010 05:54:51 PM 1082 Views
- 16/06/2010 08:48:39 PM 1323 Views
Re: - 16/06/2010 08:56:31 PM 958 Views
indeed you have - 16/06/2010 09:34:22 PM 1191 Views
Bad analogy... - 17/06/2010 04:23:31 AM 991 Views
Uh... - 17/06/2010 09:08:01 AM 1027 Views
I disagree. - 16/06/2010 04:03:52 PM 1166 Views
That's wrong. Rand said 2 AS + Moghedien could threaten him - 16/06/2010 05:17:33 PM 1148 Views
Huh. I forgot about that. - 17/06/2010 04:29:38 PM 1220 Views
go back a few posts... - 17/06/2010 03:41:42 AM 1064 Views
yet Nynaeve and Talaan can shield one another - 17/06/2010 05:57:09 AM 1070 Views
I'd like to think Egwene, Elayne and Aviendha could - 17/06/2010 04:19:22 PM 990 Views
Agreed - 17/06/2010 05:59:39 PM 892 Views
I don't think there's any theme - 17/06/2010 08:25:52 PM 1210 Views
I don't think they are meant to controll him in someway - 17/06/2010 10:21:09 PM 1090 Views
They have a separate trinity. - 18/06/2010 06:51:27 PM 1083 Views
They might be able to, but then they are not 3 women of <b>average AS</b> strength - 17/06/2010 07:10:14 PM 1059 Views
They would be far more than 3 average AS - 17/06/2010 08:07:30 PM 1073 Views
No, that's not right either. - 18/06/2010 12:37:37 AM 1118 Views
I disagree - 18/06/2010 06:07:10 AM 1202 Views
Another related quote - 18/06/2010 07:49:33 PM 1052 Views
well, in the same book about 5 minutes after Lanfear almost kicks Rands ass - 18/06/2010 08:11:49 PM 1114 Views

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