Graendal opens the gateway before shielding them. Several posts have gotten the two out of order.
I doubt Aran'gar was holding the power, though I still believe this scene is a testament to Graendal's skill. Aran'gar, however idiotic, is still a powerful and skilled channeler. Graendal's gateway-shield-Air bounds must have taken less than three or four seconds, otherwise I believe Aran'gar could have reacted with more than words.
Also, the fact that Nynaeve did not detect the presence of saidin exemplifies her lack of formal training. She knows something is different - she says that perhaps it is more subtle - but doesn't put one and one together.
I doubt Aran'gar was holding the power, though I still believe this scene is a testament to Graendal's skill. Aran'gar, however idiotic, is still a powerful and skilled channeler. Graendal's gateway-shield-Air bounds must have taken less than three or four seconds, otherwise I believe Aran'gar could have reacted with more than words.
Also, the fact that Nynaeve did not detect the presence of saidin exemplifies her lack of formal training. She knows something is different - she says that perhaps it is more subtle - but doesn't put one and one together.
This message last edited by Heiko on 21/09/2010 at 10:59:22 PM
Towers of Midnight : Prologue discussion
- 21/09/2010 04:38:40 AM
9177 Views
Me Too! Guess who is alive!!
- 21/09/2010 04:44:40 AM
2605 Views
A dove, that's weird
- 21/09/2010 03:19:10 PM
2375 Views
Re: A dove, that's weird
- 21/09/2010 03:26:39 PM
2318 Views
What Ryan said. And we only assumed that they can only use those animals *NM*
- 21/09/2010 06:53:05 PM
1330 Views
You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) *NM*
- 21/09/2010 05:10:47 AM
1437 Views
Re: You all can go to heck (and find me a link!)
- 21/09/2010 05:14:26 AM
2494 Views
Anyone find the audiobook version? *NM*
- 21/09/2010 10:20:22 AM
1297 Views
If you're in the US, Audible.com. No clue about availability in the UK. *NM*
- 21/09/2010 06:29:45 PM
1325 Views
Could somebody post a link to where they got it? I want to go to a site where I can download now *NM*
- 21/09/2010 05:39:13 AM
1313 Views
Regarding Graendal
- 21/09/2010 10:12:42 AM
2682 Views
a very weak angreal
- 21/09/2010 04:55:15 PM
2202 Views
Graendal watched Aran'gar get nuked. Aran'gar is gone gone gone.
- 21/09/2010 10:11:41 PM
2168 Views
The laughter in Perrin's Dream
- 21/09/2010 02:24:14 PM
2254 Views
Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time...
- 21/09/2010 06:46:42 PM
2317 Views
It's different (I think?) but I'm certainly no expert and I'm sure someone else will reply
- 21/09/2010 06:57:18 PM
2188 Views
OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not
- 21/09/2010 07:00:23 PM
2015 Views
Re: OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not.
- 21/09/2010 07:11:42 PM
2111 Views
Thanks. Was Arangar channeling at the time?
- 21/09/2010 07:13:53 PM
2093 Views
I think so, yes.
- 21/09/2010 07:15:44 PM
2055 Views
I don't think so actually
- 21/09/2010 07:57:42 PM
2159 Views
I don't think Aran'gar was channeling
- 21/09/2010 11:00:22 PM
2072 Views
I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd *NM*
- 21/09/2010 11:52:01 PM
1144 Views
Re: I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd
- 22/09/2010 02:57:02 AM
1962 Views
So here's what happens...
- 21/09/2010 07:15:03 PM
2486 Views
Thanks. A few comments...
- 21/09/2010 07:27:33 PM
1978 Views
I don't rule out the angreal...
- 21/09/2010 07:32:40 PM
1985 Views
Elayne's weakest angreal doubles her strength. Graendal x2 can easily shield Cyndane+Moggy, so...
- 21/09/2010 07:35:06 PM
2128 Views
I disasgree. There is no evidence that Aran'gar was holding saidin at the time
- 21/09/2010 07:42:23 PM
1977 Views
Then why did she gasp at the shield? She couldn't have known what Graendal was weaving.
- 21/09/2010 07:52:49 PM
1985 Views
because she was surprised that Graendal would put a shield on her in the first place
- 21/09/2010 07:58:45 PM
2006 Views
How did she know there was a shield?
- 21/09/2010 09:16:59 PM
1965 Views
Fact: Graendal cannot shield a male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai if they are holding the Source...
- 21/09/2010 09:28:17 PM
1949 Views
Who said "they"?
- 21/09/2010 09:55:28 PM
1931 Views
Depends on the level of surprise, I guess. If he was only holding a trickle of saidin, then maybe
- 21/09/2010 10:05:37 PM
2012 Views
I really don't think you have to be holding the source to know you've been shielded
- 21/09/2010 10:29:20 PM
1869 Views
Provide evidence?
- 21/09/2010 10:36:36 PM
1962 Views
Thanks, but like I said, they were both wrapped in air. That's enough for Aran'gar to wonder
- 21/09/2010 10:44:17 PM
1877 Views
Siuan was distracted by a number of other things going on, not to mention how suspect
- 22/09/2010 02:43:36 PM
1827 Views
And Aran'gar was fully focussed on Graendal?
- 22/09/2010 03:02:16 PM
2083 Views
More so than Siuan was on Elaida when they were shielded.
- 22/09/2010 03:33:15 PM
2878 Views
So?
- 22/09/2010 03:48:11 PM
1753 Views
It doesn't matter. There are more Shieldings that go unnoticed when not holding the Source
- 22/09/2010 03:55:48 PM
1865 Views
we don't know that
- 22/09/2010 02:35:50 PM
1923 Views
Give over, Darius... there's plenty of evidence...
- 22/09/2010 03:45:11 PM
1907 Views
Give over what? There is no hard evidence that Aran'gar wouldn't notice a shield put on her
- 22/09/2010 05:00:11 PM
1810 Views
What rot... (also, Egwene and Rand)
- 22/09/2010 05:21:08 PM
1937 Views
take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion.
- 22/09/2010 05:38:21 PM
1897 Views
Re: take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion.
- 22/09/2010 05:45:05 PM
2037 Views
if it was JUST one shield ... but she's shielding an AS and weaving a Gateway too!
- 22/09/2010 05:48:52 PM
3931 Views
Well...
- 22/09/2010 07:00:26 PM
1938 Views
She says...
- 22/09/2010 07:04:32 PM
1946 Views
no one is arguing that
- 22/09/2010 07:09:17 PM
1919 Views
Er...
- 22/09/2010 07:19:09 PM
1881 Views
I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded
- 22/09/2010 07:20:48 PM
2695 Views
Re: I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded
- 22/09/2010 07:26:52 PM
2656 Views
Again, I just find that option completely unlikely since Graendals angreal isn't all that strong
- 22/09/2010 07:39:02 PM
1936 Views
You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough.
- 23/09/2010 01:53:25 AM
2013 Views
Re: You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough.
- 23/09/2010 03:42:31 PM
1895 Views
- 23/09/2010 03:54:02 PM
1910 Views
- 23/09/2010 03:54:02 PM
1910 Views
Re:
. The evidence is that no channeled is that strong!
- 23/09/2010 04:04:02 PM
2022 Views
. The evidence is that no channeled is that strong!
- 23/09/2010 04:04:02 PM
2022 Views
Really?
- 23/09/2010 06:11:00 PM
1982 Views
Re: Really?
- 23/09/2010 09:56:09 PM
1856 Views
That's my point *NM*
- 24/09/2010 12:20:45 AM
1182 Views
Dear God! The sheer amount of replies here just blew my mind, and my window (jk).
*NM*
- 24/09/2010 07:28:14 PM
1238 Views
*NM*
- 24/09/2010 07:28:14 PM
1238 Views
The way it reads she is holding open a Gateway, then slams shields on both
- 22/09/2010 07:08:17 PM
1867 Views
Continue being irrational then...
- 22/09/2010 05:46:19 PM
1994 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then...
- 22/09/2010 05:53:05 PM
1870 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then...
- 22/09/2010 07:03:02 PM
1867 Views
Nope
- 22/09/2010 07:19:30 PM
1765 Views
Re: Nope
- 23/09/2010 02:06:35 AM
1921 Views
And you ignore all the evidence in the series that definitively makes it impossible for Graendal to
- 23/09/2010 03:57:49 PM
1808 Views
Well...
- 23/09/2010 04:31:27 PM
1972 Views
According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal
- 24/09/2010 11:18:30 PM
2145 Views
Re: According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal
- 25/09/2010 09:38:41 AM
1952 Views
Possible, but he specifically calls out when she ties off other weaves in the scene
- 25/09/2010 04:28:48 PM
1944 Views
Re: How did she know there was a shield?
- 24/09/2010 04:42:25 AM
1875 Views
You can sense the source when shielded. Entering a stedding you can't even sense it. *NM*
- 24/09/2010 02:46:09 PM
1288 Views
You'[re missing the part about the bonds of air as well
- 21/09/2010 11:06:04 PM
1889 Views
No. The sequence was shield-gasp-tie off shield-wrap in Air. *NM*
- 21/09/2010 11:14:41 PM
1223 Views
We have seen people holding the source caught off guard by a shield *NM*
- 22/09/2010 12:10:48 AM
1181 Views
Well, exactly!
- 22/09/2010 02:01:12 AM
1933 Views
Aran'gar and Delana were caught with their pants down by Graendal
- 22/09/2010 06:40:41 AM
2189 Views
What I think happened
- 22/09/2010 09:19:57 AM
1900 Views
It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue...
- 22/09/2010 10:06:47 AM
1868 Views
Re: It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue...
- 22/09/2010 01:31:52 PM
1982 Views
About shielding a channeler holding the Source...
- 22/09/2010 05:51:34 PM
2980 Views
Re: About shielding a channeler holding the Source...
- 22/09/2010 07:04:37 PM
3396 Views
The angreal makes this an unnecessary debate...
- 22/09/2010 07:09:20 PM
1866 Views
she never shielded them
- 22/09/2010 07:22:29 PM
1866 Views
True...But it made her strong enough to easily overcome both...
- 22/09/2010 07:28:12 PM
1819 Views
This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned
- 22/09/2010 07:51:19 PM
1936 Views
Re: This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned
- 22/09/2010 07:54:18 PM
1873 Views
I think we need to place Aran'gar lower too..
- 22/09/2010 07:10:29 PM
1978 Views
A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there...
- 22/09/2010 07:13:51 PM
1793 Views
Mostly agree
- 22/09/2010 07:23:53 PM
1869 Views
Re: Mostly agree
- 22/09/2010 07:28:42 PM
1829 Views
Ever wonder why Graendal was given an angreal in the first place...
- 22/09/2010 07:34:21 PM
1942 Views
Re: Ever wonder why Graendal was given an angreal in the first place...
- 22/09/2010 07:50:55 PM
1975 Views
I am starting to believe that RJ didn't think quite so literally
- 22/09/2010 08:07:45 PM
1908 Views
Not sure if you agreed with this before, but I reached this point awhile ago bwahaha
- 22/09/2010 08:53:42 PM
1912 Views
Well there is one thing to consider about this
- 21/09/2010 07:32:44 PM
2154 Views
Yes, that seems the most likely answer. That and the use of the angreal.
- 21/09/2010 07:35:53 PM
1981 Views
Aren't female channelers more dexterous in weaving than male? So her speed could be part of that. *NM*
- 22/09/2010 03:42:56 AM
1161 Views
Re: Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time...
- 01/10/2010 12:23:57 AM
1921 Views
I'm disappointed that the dove was not hidden in a background description in the tGS scene...
- 21/09/2010 08:22:29 PM
2024 Views
I was thinking the same thing ... was actually just about to go look for it myself!
- 21/09/2010 09:01:34 PM
2039 Views
I'm happy there wasn't...
- 21/09/2010 09:18:30 PM
2009 Views
Do you have more detail on Graendal's comments about Aginor's extensive use of the True Power?
- 21/09/2010 09:23:48 PM
1957 Views
Re: Do you have more detail on Graendal's comments about Aginor's extensive use of the True Power?
- 21/09/2010 09:52:07 PM
2098 Views
Very interesting. Another case of a character never utilised to his full potential in the series...
- 21/09/2010 09:57:42 PM
1848 Views
For the record
- 21/09/2010 10:53:16 PM
2036 Views
I am so glad Graendal is alive. I (& hopefully other "Graendal's Alive" supporters) feel vindicated. *NM*
- 22/09/2010 03:01:07 AM
1315 Views
Did anyone else feel that the Graendal scene was one big infodump?
- 22/09/2010 03:32:44 AM
2070 Views
That's exactly what I was thinking the entire time. It didn't ruin my enjoyment though.
- 22/09/2010 07:12:00 PM
1923 Views
Wait...so NO ONE has wanted to discuss the Sapphic scene at Graendal's place?
- 22/09/2010 03:48:36 AM
2120 Views
No, not at all. Aran'gar is still a dude at heart. I think. *NM*
- 22/09/2010 08:18:55 PM
1197 Views
I tend to agree
- 23/09/2010 05:42:52 PM
1919 Views
Lady parts + Lady parts = Lesbian sex
- 24/09/2010 11:24:36 PM
2542 Views
Yes, but its still a little off
- 25/09/2010 09:40:16 AM
1965 Views
What does Graendal think of Rand?
- 22/09/2010 02:00:28 PM
2089 Views
Aran'gar is a tool
- 22/09/2010 07:31:36 PM
2152 Views
I would think this argues against your contention that she would hold saidin to the max...
- 22/09/2010 07:36:09 PM
1915 Views
Re: I would think this argues against your contention that she would hold saidin to the max...
- 22/09/2010 07:51:53 PM
1841 Views
Remembering the last time male channelers held reversed weaves in the presence of Rand's party...
- 22/09/2010 07:55:12 PM
1813 Views
Are Fain's resurrected trollocks undead?
- 23/09/2010 01:43:01 AM
1942 Views
After 13 books you still can't spell "trollocs"...wow...that's just...wow... *NM*
- 23/09/2010 03:41:24 PM
1211 Views
Thanks for taking up space on this board to point out my shortcomings. Always appreciated. *NM*
- 23/09/2010 05:23:19 PM
1169 Views
Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO
- 23/09/2010 05:45:41 PM
2077 Views
Re: Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO
- 23/09/2010 09:54:33 PM
2009 Views
Well, that is one prediction I made correctly! Etzel would find a way to make it look like Slayer
- 25/09/2010 05:43:20 PM
2081 Views
- 25/09/2010 05:43:20 PM
2081 Views
I believe that Sanderson concocted the entire Graendal/Rand/Balefire part
- 23/09/2010 10:24:46 PM
2697 Views
No way
- 24/09/2010 07:14:35 AM
1929 Views
I can't see team Jordan allowing any deviation on what RJ would have laid out
- 12/10/2010 08:32:50 PM
2104 Views

*NM*

*NM*
*NM*