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if it was JUST one shield ... but she's shielding an AS and weaving a Gateway too! darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 22/09/2010 05:48:52 PM

My point here is that Aran'gar should be far too strong for Graendal to cut off so easily, especially since she is splitting her flows. One "gasp" from Aran'gar is not IMO sufficient evidence to conclusively prove that she was already holding saidin when the shield was put on her. We'll never know either way unless someone asks the author ... and if he agrees with you I'd love to hear him explain how Graendal managed such an impressive feat of channeling.


What do you base this on? Clearly its all about strength because Aran'gar was just standing there. But we've seen channelers of high and equal strength shield each other without too much effort. In fact, Talaan shields Nynaeve with no strain at all despite Nynaeve's efforts. I really don't understand your contention. Graendal only needs to be as strong as Aran'gar to pull this off, and that is a real possibility.


I agree that one on one Graendal could shield Aran'gar.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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Towers of Midnight : Prologue discussion fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 04:38:40 AM 9229 Views
Me Too! Guess who is alive!! PatAtt - 21/09/2010 04:44:40 AM 2629 Views
A dove, that's weird BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 03:19:10 PM 2405 Views
Re: A dove, that's weird Ryan - 21/09/2010 03:26:39 PM 2351 Views
Yes, that's the point BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:49:00 PM 2204 Views
It did feel a bit deus ex machina Ryan - 22/09/2010 12:03:05 AM 2331 Views
What Ryan said. And we only assumed that they can only use those animals *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 06:53:05 PM 1352 Views
Fain is as creepy as ever PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:06:35 AM 2462 Views
You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 05:10:47 AM 1456 Views
Re: You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:14:26 AM 2528 Views
It's D/L on B&N now *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 05:15:44 AM 1366 Views
Anyone find the audiobook version? *NM* Yuri - 21/09/2010 10:20:22 AM 1313 Views
If you're in the US, Audible.com. No clue about availability in the UK. *NM* RandAllThor - 21/09/2010 06:29:45 PM 1339 Views
I love the borderlanders PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:25:29 AM 2402 Views
Best scene of the prologue *NM* Ryan - 21/09/2010 03:28:28 PM 1397 Views
Could somebody post a link to where they got it? I want to go to a site where I can download now *NM* Guava - 21/09/2010 05:39:13 AM 1351 Views
I posted some links here PatAtt - 21/09/2010 06:04:38 AM 2275 Views
My quick summary PatAtt - 21/09/2010 06:02:41 AM 3073 Views
Whoa, whoa, whoa. DREWRULESWOT! - 23/09/2010 02:59:37 AM 2115 Views
It's good, but... Perrin. Ugh. Deadsy - 21/09/2010 07:37:43 AM 2423 Views
Awesome! Ryan - 21/09/2010 09:00:45 AM 2197 Views
Regarding Graendal Sidious - 21/09/2010 10:12:42 AM 2713 Views
Some things... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 01:18:10 PM 2267 Views
I'm glad. Being right is a good feeling RugbyPlayingAshaman - 21/09/2010 04:12:08 PM 2223 Views
a very weak angreal darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 04:55:15 PM 2235 Views
Even a weak angreal malekithe - 21/09/2010 05:47:26 PM 2191 Views
The Angreal Elayne mentions made her 2x as strong as Nynaeve darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 06:04:21 PM 2082 Views
Graendal watched Aran'gar get nuked. Aran'gar is gone gone gone. Tom - 21/09/2010 10:11:41 PM 2197 Views
The laughter in Perrin's Dream Syraelle - 21/09/2010 02:24:14 PM 2299 Views
Probably Slayer RugbyPlayingAshaman - 21/09/2010 04:29:41 PM 2195 Views
Re: Probably Slayer Syraelle - 21/09/2010 04:39:36 PM 2003 Views
Audio Book Matt_at_Heart - 21/09/2010 06:39:54 PM 2116 Views
Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... Shannow - 21/09/2010 06:46:42 PM 2355 Views
It's different (I think?) but I'm certainly no expert and I'm sure someone else will reply Deadsy - 21/09/2010 06:57:18 PM 2231 Views
OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:00:23 PM 2050 Views
Re: OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not. Deadsy - 21/09/2010 07:11:42 PM 2144 Views
Thanks. Was Arangar channeling at the time? Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:13:53 PM 2132 Views
I think so, yes. fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:15:44 PM 2081 Views
I don't think so actually darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:57:42 PM 2194 Views
I don't think Aran'gar was channeling Ryan - 21/09/2010 11:00:22 PM 2107 Views
I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd *NM* BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:52:01 PM 1164 Views
Re: I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd Heiko - 22/09/2010 02:57:02 AM 1993 Views
no she wasn't *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:25:13 PM 1272 Views
nope, no power newyorkersedai - 23/09/2010 03:05:30 AM 1973 Views
So here's what happens... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:15:03 PM 2528 Views
Thanks. A few comments... Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:27:33 PM 2011 Views
I don't rule out the angreal... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:32:40 PM 2004 Views
Elayne's weakest angreal doubles her strength. Graendal x2 can easily shield Cyndane+Moggy, so... Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:35:06 PM 2155 Views
Graendal's seemed much weaker... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:52:20 PM 2014 Views
Elayne also called the x2 turtle angreal "weak"... Shannow - 21/09/2010 08:00:01 PM 2052 Views
and we know it wasn't enough to overwhlem Verin's circle darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 08:02:13 PM 1895 Views
I disasgree. There is no evidence that Aran'gar was holding saidin at the time darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:42:23 PM 2008 Views
Then why did she gasp at the shield? She couldn't have known what Graendal was weaving. fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:52:49 PM 2016 Views
because she was surprised that Graendal would put a shield on her in the first place darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:58:45 PM 2038 Views
How did she know there was a shield? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:16:59 PM 2004 Views
Fact: Graendal cannot shield a male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai if they are holding the Source... Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:28:17 PM 1977 Views
Who said "they"? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:55:28 PM 1970 Views
Depends on the level of surprise, I guess. If he was only holding a trickle of saidin, then maybe Shannow - 21/09/2010 10:05:37 PM 2042 Views
I don't think strength is the only determinant... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:24:24 PM 1961 Views
I really don't think you have to be holding the source to know you've been shielded Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:29:20 PM 1901 Views
Provide evidence? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:36:36 PM 1995 Views
Thanks, but like I said, they were both wrapped in air. That's enough for Aran'gar to wonder Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:44:17 PM 1905 Views
They gasped before Graendal wove Air... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 11:13:48 PM 1958 Views
Alright, you win *NM* Deadsy - 22/09/2010 02:51:26 AM 1220 Views
*NM* fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:06:22 AM 1058 Views
Siuan was distracted by a number of other things going on, not to mention how suspect darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 02:43:36 PM 1856 Views
And Aran'gar was fully focussed on Graendal? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:02:16 PM 2105 Views
More so than Siuan was on Elaida when they were shielded. darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:33:15 PM 2907 Views
So? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:48:11 PM 1786 Views
It doesn't matter. There are more Shieldings that go unnoticed when not holding the Source Mik - 22/09/2010 03:55:48 PM 1904 Views
Nice catches! fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 04:06:52 PM 2046 Views
we don't know that darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 02:35:50 PM 1959 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:03:52 PM 1890 Views
Give over, Darius... there's plenty of evidence... Mik - 22/09/2010 03:45:11 PM 1940 Views
Give over what? There is no hard evidence that Aran'gar wouldn't notice a shield put on her darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:00:11 PM 1840 Views
What rot... (also, Egwene and Rand) fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 05:21:08 PM 1968 Views
take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:38:21 PM 1937 Views
Re: take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:45:05 PM 2064 Views
if it was JUST one shield ... but she's shielding an AS and weaving a Gateway too! darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:48:52 PM 3961 Views
Well... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:00:26 PM 1966 Views
She says... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:04:32 PM 1974 Views
no one is arguing that darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:09:17 PM 1958 Views
Er... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:19:09 PM 1911 Views
I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:20:48 PM 2728 Views
Re: I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:26:52 PM 2686 Views
Again, I just find that option completely unlikely since Graendals angreal isn't all that strong darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:39:02 PM 1980 Views
You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 01:53:25 AM 2038 Views
Re: You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 03:42:31 PM 1918 Views
fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:54:02 PM 1940 Views
Re: . The evidence is that no channeled is that strong! darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 04:04:02 PM 2043 Views
Really? fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 06:11:00 PM 2022 Views
Re: Really? Sidious - 23/09/2010 09:56:09 PM 1884 Views
That's my point *NM* darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 12:20:45 AM 1201 Views
Dear God! The sheer amount of replies here just blew my mind, and my window (jk). *NM* Bookwyrm - 24/09/2010 07:28:14 PM 1255 Views
Y o u' r e h u r t i n g m y s c r o l l b a r *NM* Marshall - 24/09/2010 11:30:27 PM 1204 Views
Re: She says... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:12:48 PM 1959 Views
Exactly. fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 01:54:05 AM 1913 Views
The way it reads she is holding open a Gateway, then slams shields on both darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:08:17 PM 1905 Views
Continue being irrational then... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 05:46:19 PM 2026 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:53:05 PM 1903 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:03:02 PM 1905 Views
Nope darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:19:30 PM 1796 Views
Re: Nope fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 02:06:35 AM 1953 Views
Toveine! Now THAT is a good catch, fionwe! Mik - 23/09/2010 07:57:05 AM 2061 Views
Sidious pointed it out, actually. But thanks! fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:55:29 PM 1949 Views
And you ignore all the evidence in the series that definitively makes it impossible for Graendal to darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 03:57:49 PM 1831 Views
Well... Sidious - 23/09/2010 04:31:27 PM 2012 Views
According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 11:18:30 PM 2186 Views
Re: According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal Sidious - 25/09/2010 09:38:41 AM 1984 Views
Possible, but he specifically calls out when she ties off other weaves in the scene darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 04:28:48 PM 1972 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... iHeartGraendal - 24/09/2010 03:20:49 AM 2134 Views
Oh come on.. be real Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:39:51 PM 1894 Views
see that's an argument that makes more sense to me darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:47:17 PM 1988 Views
Re: How did she know there was a shield? Gee69 - 24/09/2010 04:42:25 AM 1909 Views
You can sense the source when shielded. Entering a stedding you can't even sense it. *NM* Myrdhyn - 24/09/2010 02:46:09 PM 1301 Views
You'[re missing the part about the bonds of air as well Ryan - 21/09/2010 11:06:04 PM 1927 Views
No. The sequence was shield-gasp-tie off shield-wrap in Air. *NM* fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 11:14:41 PM 1240 Views
We have seen people holding the source caught off guard by a shield *NM* Ryan - 22/09/2010 12:10:48 AM 1196 Views
Well, exactly! fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 02:01:12 AM 1961 Views
Aran'gar and Delana were caught with their pants down by Graendal Ryan - 22/09/2010 06:40:41 AM 2225 Views
What I think happened Sidious - 22/09/2010 09:19:57 AM 1929 Views
It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... Shannow - 22/09/2010 10:06:47 AM 1895 Views
Re: It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... Sidious - 22/09/2010 01:31:52 PM 2010 Views
Fair point. Shannow - 22/09/2010 02:07:05 PM 1983 Views
I think it also bears mentioning that ... Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 04:17:17 PM 1963 Views
Graendal knew Aran'gar was distracted malekithe - 23/09/2010 07:10:52 AM 1914 Views
About shielding a channeler holding the Source... lilltempest - 22/09/2010 05:51:34 PM 3009 Views
Re: About shielding a channeler holding the Source... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:04:37 PM 3424 Views
The angreal makes this an unnecessary debate... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:09:20 PM 1906 Views
she never shielded them darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:22:29 PM 1901 Views
True...But it made her strong enough to easily overcome both... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:28:12 PM 1851 Views
This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:51:19 PM 1963 Views
Re: This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:54:18 PM 1902 Views
LMAO... nice! darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 08:24:20 PM 1896 Views
I think we need to place Aran'gar lower too.. fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:10:29 PM 2008 Views
A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:13:51 PM 1829 Views
I would agree Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:22:50 PM 2004 Views
Re: I would agree darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:25:46 PM 1847 Views
Re: A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:03:26 AM 1903 Views
Mostly agree darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:23:53 PM 1919 Views
Re: Mostly agree Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:28:42 PM 1868 Views
Ever wonder why Graendal was given an angreal in the first place... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:34:21 PM 1969 Views
Re: Ever wonder why Graendal was given an angreal in the first place... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:50:55 PM 2002 Views
I am starting to believe that RJ didn't think quite so literally darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 08:07:45 PM 1936 Views
Not sure if you agreed with this before, but I reached this point awhile ago bwahaha RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/09/2010 08:53:42 PM 1947 Views
I've been on this side for a good long while darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 09:40:43 PM 2051 Views
*NM* alanna aes sedai - 28/09/2010 11:54:54 PM 1158 Views
Well there is one thing to consider about this darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:32:44 PM 2188 Views
Yes, that seems the most likely answer. That and the use of the angreal. Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:35:53 PM 2012 Views
Aren't female channelers more dexterous in weaving than male? So her speed could be part of that. *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 03:42:56 AM 1179 Views
Re: Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... The Angry Druid - 01/10/2010 12:23:57 AM 1959 Views
I'm disappointed that the dove was not hidden in a background description in the tGS scene... Shannow - 21/09/2010 08:22:29 PM 2059 Views
I was thinking the same thing ... was actually just about to go look for it myself! darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 09:01:34 PM 2072 Views
I'm happy there wasn't... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:18:30 PM 2039 Views
Do you have more detail on Graendal's comments about Aginor's extensive use of the True Power? Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:23:48 PM 1990 Views
Re: Do you have more detail on Graendal's comments about Aginor's extensive use of the True Power? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:52:07 PM 2131 Views
Very interesting. Another case of a character never utilised to his full potential in the series... Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:57:42 PM 1875 Views
True... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:02:59 PM 1874 Views
So there are 6 Forsaken left. Tom - 21/09/2010 10:23:22 PM 2190 Views
For the record Heiko - 21/09/2010 10:53:16 PM 2077 Views
She opened two Gateways, IIRC BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:58:29 PM 1953 Views
Re: She opened two Gateways, IIRC Heiko - 22/09/2010 02:21:47 AM 2038 Views
I am so glad Graendal is alive. I (& hopefully other "Graendal's Alive" supporters) feel vindicated. *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 03:01:07 AM 1329 Views
Did anyone else feel that the Graendal scene was one big infodump? Marshall - 22/09/2010 03:32:44 AM 2102 Views
That's exactly what I was thinking the entire time. It didn't ruin my enjoyment though. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:12:00 PM 1956 Views
Wait...so NO ONE has wanted to discuss the Sapphic scene at Graendal's place? Tom - 22/09/2010 03:48:36 AM 2151 Views
yes, totally Lesbian. *NM* darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:04:16 PM 1219 Views
No, the other L word. "LesbiAHNS?" *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 04:18:55 PM 1273 Views
Yes, it was totally lesbian. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:09:19 PM 1919 Views
No, not at all. Aran'gar is still a dude at heart. I think. *NM* BlackAdder - 22/09/2010 08:18:55 PM 1209 Views
I tend to agree Sidious - 23/09/2010 05:42:52 PM 1954 Views
Lady parts + Lady parts = Lesbian sex darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 11:24:36 PM 2573 Views
Yes, but its still a little off Sidious - 25/09/2010 09:40:16 AM 1993 Views
Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 04:41:33 PM 2147 Views
Re: Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose Sidious - 25/09/2010 05:25:10 PM 2039 Views
What does Graendal think of Rand? Sidious - 22/09/2010 02:00:28 PM 2115 Views
She was really surprised and scared. Rurouni_Kenshin - 22/09/2010 02:11:28 PM 2073 Views
I take it you haven't read the Prologue. Tom - 22/09/2010 02:16:49 PM 1957 Views
Quite a bit... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 02:31:14 PM 2118 Views
Agreed, she's been worrying about him since the begining darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:18:48 PM 2171 Views
Thanks for the answers *NM* Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:46:05 PM 1187 Views
Second best prologue ever... lilltempest - 22/09/2010 06:24:44 PM 2340 Views
It's my favorite ever. Only one dark spot tarnished it. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:18:12 PM 1975 Views
Yeah, tEotW is the best... BlackAdder - 22/09/2010 08:22:12 PM 2027 Views
Aran'gar is a tool Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:31:36 PM 2187 Views
I would think this argues against your contention that she would hold saidin to the max... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:36:09 PM 1943 Views
Re: I would think this argues against your contention that she would hold saidin to the max... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:51:53 PM 1868 Views
Remembering the last time male channelers held reversed weaves in the presence of Rand's party... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:55:12 PM 1842 Views
Yes. s/He was. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/09/2010 08:59:16 PM 1975 Views
Shadow invading Kandor and Lan riding trough it. CONNECTION? 4th Dimension - 22/09/2010 08:36:05 PM 2163 Views
Are Fain's resurrected trollocks undead? RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 01:43:01 AM 1969 Views
After 13 books you still can't spell "trollocs"...wow...that's just...wow... *NM* Tom - 23/09/2010 03:41:24 PM 1234 Views
Thanks for taking up space on this board to point out my shortcomings. Always appreciated. *NM* RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 05:23:19 PM 1182 Views
Sidious - 23/09/2010 04:47:11 PM 2076 Views
Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO Etzel - 23/09/2010 05:45:41 PM 2110 Views
Re: Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO Sidious - 23/09/2010 09:54:33 PM 2045 Views
Well, that is one prediction I made correctly! Etzel would find a way to make it look like Slayer darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 05:43:20 PM 2112 Views
I believe that Sanderson concocted the entire Graendal/Rand/Balefire part Marshall - 23/09/2010 10:24:46 PM 2734 Views
I had a similar thought, but... RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 10:40:58 PM 2032 Views
Probably not Sanderson 4th Dimension - 23/09/2010 11:11:54 PM 2047 Views
No way Rurouni_Kenshin - 24/09/2010 07:14:35 AM 1957 Views
I can't see team Jordan allowing any deviation on what RJ would have laid out darius_sedai - 12/10/2010 08:32:50 PM 2135 Views
I agree. *NM* Etzel - 25/09/2010 09:42:46 AM 1225 Views
A few nits Terez - 12/10/2010 10:21:27 AM 1968 Views
Canadian Download site alanna aes sedai - 29/09/2010 12:05:12 AM 2514 Views
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