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Re: About shielding a channeler holding the Source... Sidious Send a noteboard - 22/09/2010 07:04:37 PM

I think its pretty clear that Aran'gar was holding saidin if she gasped. It's a recurrent reaction we've seen when a channeler is suddenly shielded and loses their connection with the Source.

... We know that channelers can shield one another if they are of equal strength. IMO Graendal is stronger or equal to her and overwhelmed her with sheer speed and surprise. Whether she used the angreal is difficult say, but the author usually mentions if a channeler pulls through one.


I don't see how Aran'gar could have been holding saidin when Graendal shielded her unless Graendal is a much stronger channeler than she is. I know channelers of equal strengths can shield each other, but my understanding was that, for a channeler to shield someone who is actually holding the Source, he/she would have to be significantly stronger than the other one.

Shielding a channeler that is not holding the Source is fairly easy if you're equal or stronger...it's kind of like kicking a stone. Shielding a channeler who is actually holding the Source is more like stopping a boulder that's rolling downhill - if you aren't a great deal bigger and/or stronger, it will roll right over you. So my take on it is that Aran'gar was holding saidin and Graendal used the angreal or Aran'gar was not holding saidin and Graendal may or may not have been using the angreal.


I think skill is a huge factor here. Obviously Graendal had to be within a certain range of Aran'gar's strength or she would never have a chance. It's not like I think Moiraine can shield Rand while he's holding saidin if she has skill. However, I think Graendal is close enough in power to Aran'gar that she can drive the shield home. She must know this or she would never dare try, considering she doesn't know if Aran'gar is holding saidin.
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Towers of Midnight : Prologue discussion fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 04:38:40 AM 9278 Views
Me Too! Guess who is alive!! PatAtt - 21/09/2010 04:44:40 AM 2662 Views
A dove, that's weird BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 03:19:10 PM 2456 Views
Re: A dove, that's weird Ryan - 21/09/2010 03:26:39 PM 2389 Views
Yes, that's the point BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:49:00 PM 2235 Views
It did feel a bit deus ex machina Ryan - 22/09/2010 12:03:05 AM 2363 Views
What Ryan said. And we only assumed that they can only use those animals *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 06:53:05 PM 1380 Views
Fain is as creepy as ever PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:06:35 AM 2498 Views
You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 05:10:47 AM 1473 Views
Re: You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:14:26 AM 2563 Views
It's D/L on B&N now *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 05:15:44 AM 1393 Views
Anyone find the audiobook version? *NM* Yuri - 21/09/2010 10:20:22 AM 1328 Views
If you're in the US, Audible.com. No clue about availability in the UK. *NM* RandAllThor - 21/09/2010 06:29:45 PM 1353 Views
I love the borderlanders PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:25:29 AM 2429 Views
Best scene of the prologue *NM* Ryan - 21/09/2010 03:28:28 PM 1411 Views
Could somebody post a link to where they got it? I want to go to a site where I can download now *NM* Guava - 21/09/2010 05:39:13 AM 1381 Views
I posted some links here PatAtt - 21/09/2010 06:04:38 AM 2311 Views
My quick summary PatAtt - 21/09/2010 06:02:41 AM 3114 Views
Whoa, whoa, whoa. DREWRULESWOT! - 23/09/2010 02:59:37 AM 2143 Views
It's good, but... Perrin. Ugh. Deadsy - 21/09/2010 07:37:43 AM 2453 Views
Awesome! Ryan - 21/09/2010 09:00:45 AM 2229 Views
Regarding Graendal Sidious - 21/09/2010 10:12:42 AM 2740 Views
Some things... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 01:18:10 PM 2299 Views
I'm glad. Being right is a good feeling RugbyPlayingAshaman - 21/09/2010 04:12:08 PM 2255 Views
a very weak angreal darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 04:55:15 PM 2276 Views
Even a weak angreal malekithe - 21/09/2010 05:47:26 PM 2227 Views
The Angreal Elayne mentions made her 2x as strong as Nynaeve darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 06:04:21 PM 2116 Views
Graendal watched Aran'gar get nuked. Aran'gar is gone gone gone. Tom - 21/09/2010 10:11:41 PM 2237 Views
The laughter in Perrin's Dream Syraelle - 21/09/2010 02:24:14 PM 2330 Views
Probably Slayer RugbyPlayingAshaman - 21/09/2010 04:29:41 PM 2248 Views
Re: Probably Slayer Syraelle - 21/09/2010 04:39:36 PM 2042 Views
Audio Book Matt_at_Heart - 21/09/2010 06:39:54 PM 2150 Views
Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... Shannow - 21/09/2010 06:46:42 PM 2392 Views
It's different (I think?) but I'm certainly no expert and I'm sure someone else will reply Deadsy - 21/09/2010 06:57:18 PM 2265 Views
OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:00:23 PM 2086 Views
Re: OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not. Deadsy - 21/09/2010 07:11:42 PM 2175 Views
Thanks. Was Arangar channeling at the time? Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:13:53 PM 2165 Views
I think so, yes. fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:15:44 PM 2113 Views
I don't think so actually darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:57:42 PM 2234 Views
I don't think Aran'gar was channeling Ryan - 21/09/2010 11:00:22 PM 2140 Views
I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd *NM* BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:52:01 PM 1175 Views
Re: I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd Heiko - 22/09/2010 02:57:02 AM 2023 Views
no she wasn't *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:25:13 PM 1290 Views
nope, no power newyorkersedai - 23/09/2010 03:05:30 AM 2010 Views
So here's what happens... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:15:03 PM 2567 Views
Thanks. A few comments... Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:27:33 PM 2038 Views
I don't rule out the angreal... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:32:40 PM 2037 Views
Elayne's weakest angreal doubles her strength. Graendal x2 can easily shield Cyndane+Moggy, so... Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:35:06 PM 2187 Views
Graendal's seemed much weaker... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:52:20 PM 2045 Views
Elayne also called the x2 turtle angreal "weak"... Shannow - 21/09/2010 08:00:01 PM 2088 Views
and we know it wasn't enough to overwhlem Verin's circle darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 08:02:13 PM 1935 Views
I disasgree. There is no evidence that Aran'gar was holding saidin at the time darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:42:23 PM 2042 Views
Then why did she gasp at the shield? She couldn't have known what Graendal was weaving. fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:52:49 PM 2060 Views
because she was surprised that Graendal would put a shield on her in the first place darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:58:45 PM 2085 Views
How did she know there was a shield? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:16:59 PM 2045 Views
Fact: Graendal cannot shield a male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai if they are holding the Source... Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:28:17 PM 2016 Views
Who said "they"? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:55:28 PM 2003 Views
Depends on the level of surprise, I guess. If he was only holding a trickle of saidin, then maybe Shannow - 21/09/2010 10:05:37 PM 2082 Views
I don't think strength is the only determinant... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:24:24 PM 1997 Views
I really don't think you have to be holding the source to know you've been shielded Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:29:20 PM 1926 Views
Provide evidence? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:36:36 PM 2037 Views
Thanks, but like I said, they were both wrapped in air. That's enough for Aran'gar to wonder Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:44:17 PM 1941 Views
They gasped before Graendal wove Air... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 11:13:48 PM 1989 Views
Alright, you win *NM* Deadsy - 22/09/2010 02:51:26 AM 1233 Views
*NM* fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:06:22 AM 1074 Views
Siuan was distracted by a number of other things going on, not to mention how suspect darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 02:43:36 PM 1887 Views
And Aran'gar was fully focussed on Graendal? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:02:16 PM 2144 Views
More so than Siuan was on Elaida when they were shielded. darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:33:15 PM 2940 Views
So? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:48:11 PM 1827 Views
It doesn't matter. There are more Shieldings that go unnoticed when not holding the Source Mik - 22/09/2010 03:55:48 PM 1929 Views
Nice catches! fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 04:06:52 PM 2078 Views
we don't know that darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 02:35:50 PM 1992 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:03:52 PM 1927 Views
Give over, Darius... there's plenty of evidence... Mik - 22/09/2010 03:45:11 PM 1971 Views
Give over what? There is no hard evidence that Aran'gar wouldn't notice a shield put on her darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:00:11 PM 1865 Views
What rot... (also, Egwene and Rand) fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 05:21:08 PM 1994 Views
take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:38:21 PM 1966 Views
Re: take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:45:05 PM 2102 Views
if it was JUST one shield ... but she's shielding an AS and weaving a Gateway too! darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:48:52 PM 4005 Views
Well... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:00:26 PM 1998 Views
She says... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:04:32 PM 2005 Views
no one is arguing that darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:09:17 PM 1996 Views
Er... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:19:09 PM 1943 Views
I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:20:48 PM 2761 Views
Re: I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:26:52 PM 2717 Views
Again, I just find that option completely unlikely since Graendals angreal isn't all that strong darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:39:02 PM 2008 Views
You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 01:53:25 AM 2064 Views
Re: You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 03:42:31 PM 1952 Views
fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:54:02 PM 1981 Views
Re: . The evidence is that no channeled is that strong! darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 04:04:02 PM 2072 Views
Really? fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 06:11:00 PM 2053 Views
Re: Really? Sidious - 23/09/2010 09:56:09 PM 1925 Views
That's my point *NM* darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 12:20:45 AM 1217 Views
Dear God! The sheer amount of replies here just blew my mind, and my window (jk). *NM* Bookwyrm - 24/09/2010 07:28:14 PM 1275 Views
Y o u' r e h u r t i n g m y s c r o l l b a r *NM* Marshall - 24/09/2010 11:30:27 PM 1220 Views
Re: She says... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:12:48 PM 1995 Views
Exactly. fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 01:54:05 AM 1942 Views
The way it reads she is holding open a Gateway, then slams shields on both darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:08:17 PM 1938 Views
Continue being irrational then... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 05:46:19 PM 2058 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:53:05 PM 1936 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:03:02 PM 1932 Views
Nope darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:19:30 PM 1834 Views
Re: Nope fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 02:06:35 AM 1977 Views
Toveine! Now THAT is a good catch, fionwe! Mik - 23/09/2010 07:57:05 AM 2094 Views
Sidious pointed it out, actually. But thanks! fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:55:29 PM 1991 Views
And you ignore all the evidence in the series that definitively makes it impossible for Graendal to darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 03:57:49 PM 1863 Views
Well... Sidious - 23/09/2010 04:31:27 PM 2054 Views
According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 11:18:30 PM 2214 Views
Re: According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal Sidious - 25/09/2010 09:38:41 AM 2023 Views
Possible, but he specifically calls out when she ties off other weaves in the scene darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 04:28:48 PM 2008 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... iHeartGraendal - 24/09/2010 03:20:49 AM 2171 Views
Oh come on.. be real Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:39:51 PM 1921 Views
see that's an argument that makes more sense to me darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:47:17 PM 2018 Views
Re: How did she know there was a shield? Gee69 - 24/09/2010 04:42:25 AM 1937 Views
You can sense the source when shielded. Entering a stedding you can't even sense it. *NM* Myrdhyn - 24/09/2010 02:46:09 PM 1314 Views
You'[re missing the part about the bonds of air as well Ryan - 21/09/2010 11:06:04 PM 1965 Views
No. The sequence was shield-gasp-tie off shield-wrap in Air. *NM* fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 11:14:41 PM 1252 Views
We have seen people holding the source caught off guard by a shield *NM* Ryan - 22/09/2010 12:10:48 AM 1208 Views
Well, exactly! fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 02:01:12 AM 1997 Views
Aran'gar and Delana were caught with their pants down by Graendal Ryan - 22/09/2010 06:40:41 AM 2254 Views
What I think happened Sidious - 22/09/2010 09:19:57 AM 1960 Views
It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... Shannow - 22/09/2010 10:06:47 AM 1923 Views
Re: It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... Sidious - 22/09/2010 01:31:52 PM 2039 Views
Fair point. Shannow - 22/09/2010 02:07:05 PM 2022 Views
I think it also bears mentioning that ... Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 04:17:17 PM 1998 Views
Graendal knew Aran'gar was distracted malekithe - 23/09/2010 07:10:52 AM 1961 Views
About shielding a channeler holding the Source... lilltempest - 22/09/2010 05:51:34 PM 3046 Views
Re: About shielding a channeler holding the Source... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:04:37 PM 3457 Views
The angreal makes this an unnecessary debate... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:09:20 PM 1941 Views
she never shielded them darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:22:29 PM 1938 Views
True...But it made her strong enough to easily overcome both... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:28:12 PM 1877 Views
This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:51:19 PM 1997 Views
Re: This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:54:18 PM 1939 Views
LMAO... nice! darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 08:24:20 PM 1930 Views
I think we need to place Aran'gar lower too.. fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:10:29 PM 2050 Views
A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:13:51 PM 1862 Views
I would agree Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:22:50 PM 2045 Views
Re: I would agree darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:25:46 PM 1880 Views
Re: A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:03:26 AM 1938 Views
Mostly agree darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:23:53 PM 1963 Views
Re: Mostly agree Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:28:42 PM 1902 Views
Ever wonder why Graendal was given an angreal in the first place... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:34:21 PM 2001 Views
Re: Ever wonder why Graendal was given an angreal in the first place... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:50:55 PM 2039 Views
I am starting to believe that RJ didn't think quite so literally darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 08:07:45 PM 1975 Views
Not sure if you agreed with this before, but I reached this point awhile ago bwahaha RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/09/2010 08:53:42 PM 1977 Views
I've been on this side for a good long while darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 09:40:43 PM 2086 Views
*NM* alanna aes sedai - 28/09/2010 11:54:54 PM 1173 Views
Well there is one thing to consider about this darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:32:44 PM 2230 Views
Yes, that seems the most likely answer. That and the use of the angreal. Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:35:53 PM 2049 Views
Aren't female channelers more dexterous in weaving than male? So her speed could be part of that. *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 03:42:56 AM 1194 Views
Re: Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... The Angry Druid - 01/10/2010 12:23:57 AM 1994 Views
I'm disappointed that the dove was not hidden in a background description in the tGS scene... Shannow - 21/09/2010 08:22:29 PM 2092 Views
I was thinking the same thing ... was actually just about to go look for it myself! darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 09:01:34 PM 2106 Views
I'm happy there wasn't... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:18:30 PM 2078 Views
Do you have more detail on Graendal's comments about Aginor's extensive use of the True Power? Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:23:48 PM 2024 Views
Re: Do you have more detail on Graendal's comments about Aginor's extensive use of the True Power? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:52:07 PM 2171 Views
Very interesting. Another case of a character never utilised to his full potential in the series... Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:57:42 PM 1914 Views
True... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:02:59 PM 1904 Views
So there are 6 Forsaken left. Tom - 21/09/2010 10:23:22 PM 2215 Views
For the record Heiko - 21/09/2010 10:53:16 PM 2132 Views
She opened two Gateways, IIRC BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:58:29 PM 1986 Views
Re: She opened two Gateways, IIRC Heiko - 22/09/2010 02:21:47 AM 2071 Views
I am so glad Graendal is alive. I (& hopefully other "Graendal's Alive" supporters) feel vindicated. *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 03:01:07 AM 1354 Views
Did anyone else feel that the Graendal scene was one big infodump? Marshall - 22/09/2010 03:32:44 AM 2129 Views
That's exactly what I was thinking the entire time. It didn't ruin my enjoyment though. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:12:00 PM 1991 Views
Wait...so NO ONE has wanted to discuss the Sapphic scene at Graendal's place? Tom - 22/09/2010 03:48:36 AM 2180 Views
yes, totally Lesbian. *NM* darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:04:16 PM 1233 Views
No, the other L word. "LesbiAHNS?" *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 04:18:55 PM 1305 Views
Yes, it was totally lesbian. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:09:19 PM 1962 Views
No, not at all. Aran'gar is still a dude at heart. I think. *NM* BlackAdder - 22/09/2010 08:18:55 PM 1223 Views
I tend to agree Sidious - 23/09/2010 05:42:52 PM 1987 Views
Lady parts + Lady parts = Lesbian sex darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 11:24:36 PM 2606 Views
Yes, but its still a little off Sidious - 25/09/2010 09:40:16 AM 2023 Views
Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 04:41:33 PM 2185 Views
Re: Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose Sidious - 25/09/2010 05:25:10 PM 2077 Views
What does Graendal think of Rand? Sidious - 22/09/2010 02:00:28 PM 2154 Views
She was really surprised and scared. Rurouni_Kenshin - 22/09/2010 02:11:28 PM 2106 Views
I take it you haven't read the Prologue. Tom - 22/09/2010 02:16:49 PM 1989 Views
Quite a bit... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 02:31:14 PM 2154 Views
Agreed, she's been worrying about him since the begining darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:18:48 PM 2209 Views
Thanks for the answers *NM* Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:46:05 PM 1203 Views
Second best prologue ever... lilltempest - 22/09/2010 06:24:44 PM 2371 Views
It's my favorite ever. Only one dark spot tarnished it. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:18:12 PM 2006 Views
Yeah, tEotW is the best... BlackAdder - 22/09/2010 08:22:12 PM 2064 Views
Aran'gar is a tool Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:31:36 PM 2225 Views
I would think this argues against your contention that she would hold saidin to the max... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:36:09 PM 1982 Views
Re: I would think this argues against your contention that she would hold saidin to the max... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:51:53 PM 1897 Views
Remembering the last time male channelers held reversed weaves in the presence of Rand's party... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:55:12 PM 1868 Views
Yes. s/He was. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/09/2010 08:59:16 PM 2007 Views
Shadow invading Kandor and Lan riding trough it. CONNECTION? 4th Dimension - 22/09/2010 08:36:05 PM 2195 Views
Are Fain's resurrected trollocks undead? RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 01:43:01 AM 1994 Views
After 13 books you still can't spell "trollocs"...wow...that's just...wow... *NM* Tom - 23/09/2010 03:41:24 PM 1251 Views
Thanks for taking up space on this board to point out my shortcomings. Always appreciated. *NM* RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 05:23:19 PM 1198 Views
Sidious - 23/09/2010 04:47:11 PM 2107 Views
Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO Etzel - 23/09/2010 05:45:41 PM 2145 Views
Re: Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO Sidious - 23/09/2010 09:54:33 PM 2080 Views
Well, that is one prediction I made correctly! Etzel would find a way to make it look like Slayer darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 05:43:20 PM 2143 Views
I believe that Sanderson concocted the entire Graendal/Rand/Balefire part Marshall - 23/09/2010 10:24:46 PM 2770 Views
I had a similar thought, but... RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 10:40:58 PM 2070 Views
Probably not Sanderson 4th Dimension - 23/09/2010 11:11:54 PM 2083 Views
No way Rurouni_Kenshin - 24/09/2010 07:14:35 AM 1990 Views
I can't see team Jordan allowing any deviation on what RJ would have laid out darius_sedai - 12/10/2010 08:32:50 PM 2169 Views
I agree. *NM* Etzel - 25/09/2010 09:42:46 AM 1242 Views
A few nits Terez - 12/10/2010 10:21:27 AM 2002 Views
Canadian Download site alanna aes sedai - 29/09/2010 12:05:12 AM 2547 Views
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