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Re: I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded Sidious Send a noteboard - 22/09/2010 07:26:52 PM
First, she weaves a Gateway. While holding it open, she says "she wove two shields...". That's conclusive, IMO.


it's your supposition that because Aran'gar gasps that means she must have been holding the Power that I question.


If Aran'gar hadn't been holding saidin she never would have known about the shield. It is saidar after all. We've seen this happen to Rand when Lanfear shielded him. It's only detectable when they try reach for the Source and feel the 'glass barrier'.

Delana might have known obviously.

One small possibility is that Aran'gar gasped as she felt all the balefire hurling towards her, much like Nynaeve did when Moghedien balefired her. Depending on how quickly this scene took place.


without Graendal having to have cut her off from the Power. Nothing more.


Yeah I would have to disagree with that opinion. We've seen that when men and women shield each other, it's undetectable unless they are holding the Source (e.g. when Logain shields the Reds who've come after the BT). It is a weave of the opposite Power, obviously, and therefore not detectable unless they reach for the Source.

I'd be surprised if you can find an example to contradict this. On the contrary there are lots of examples of people gasping or their eyes bulging when their connection is suddenly severed.
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This message last edited by Sidious on 22/09/2010 at 07:27:20 PM
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Towers of Midnight : Prologue discussion fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 04:38:40 AM 9179 Views
Me Too! Guess who is alive!! PatAtt - 21/09/2010 04:44:40 AM 2605 Views
A dove, that's weird BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 03:19:10 PM 2376 Views
Re: A dove, that's weird Ryan - 21/09/2010 03:26:39 PM 2320 Views
Yes, that's the point BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:49:00 PM 2166 Views
It did feel a bit deus ex machina Ryan - 22/09/2010 12:03:05 AM 2305 Views
What Ryan said. And we only assumed that they can only use those animals *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 06:53:05 PM 1331 Views
Fain is as creepy as ever PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:06:35 AM 2430 Views
You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 05:10:47 AM 1438 Views
Re: You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:14:26 AM 2495 Views
It's D/L on B&N now *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 05:15:44 AM 1331 Views
Anyone find the audiobook version? *NM* Yuri - 21/09/2010 10:20:22 AM 1298 Views
If you're in the US, Audible.com. No clue about availability in the UK. *NM* RandAllThor - 21/09/2010 06:29:45 PM 1326 Views
I love the borderlanders PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:25:29 AM 2370 Views
Best scene of the prologue *NM* Ryan - 21/09/2010 03:28:28 PM 1379 Views
Could somebody post a link to where they got it? I want to go to a site where I can download now *NM* Guava - 21/09/2010 05:39:13 AM 1314 Views
I posted some links here PatAtt - 21/09/2010 06:04:38 AM 2230 Views
My quick summary PatAtt - 21/09/2010 06:02:41 AM 3041 Views
Whoa, whoa, whoa. DREWRULESWOT! - 23/09/2010 02:59:37 AM 2086 Views
It's good, but... Perrin. Ugh. Deadsy - 21/09/2010 07:37:43 AM 2395 Views
Awesome! Ryan - 21/09/2010 09:00:45 AM 2163 Views
Regarding Graendal Sidious - 21/09/2010 10:12:42 AM 2683 Views
Some things... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 01:18:10 PM 2235 Views
I'm glad. Being right is a good feeling RugbyPlayingAshaman - 21/09/2010 04:12:08 PM 2186 Views
a very weak angreal darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 04:55:15 PM 2203 Views
Even a weak angreal malekithe - 21/09/2010 05:47:26 PM 2157 Views
The Angreal Elayne mentions made her 2x as strong as Nynaeve darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 06:04:21 PM 2038 Views
Graendal watched Aran'gar get nuked. Aran'gar is gone gone gone. Tom - 21/09/2010 10:11:41 PM 2168 Views
The laughter in Perrin's Dream Syraelle - 21/09/2010 02:24:14 PM 2257 Views
Probably Slayer RugbyPlayingAshaman - 21/09/2010 04:29:41 PM 2142 Views
Re: Probably Slayer Syraelle - 21/09/2010 04:39:36 PM 1967 Views
Audio Book Matt_at_Heart - 21/09/2010 06:39:54 PM 2090 Views
Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... Shannow - 21/09/2010 06:46:42 PM 2317 Views
It's different (I think?) but I'm certainly no expert and I'm sure someone else will reply Deadsy - 21/09/2010 06:57:18 PM 2191 Views
OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:00:23 PM 2016 Views
Re: OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not. Deadsy - 21/09/2010 07:11:42 PM 2112 Views
Thanks. Was Arangar channeling at the time? Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:13:53 PM 2094 Views
I think so, yes. fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:15:44 PM 2056 Views
I don't think so actually darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:57:42 PM 2161 Views
I don't think Aran'gar was channeling Ryan - 21/09/2010 11:00:22 PM 2073 Views
I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd *NM* BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:52:01 PM 1146 Views
Re: I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd Heiko - 22/09/2010 02:57:02 AM 1964 Views
no she wasn't *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:25:13 PM 1258 Views
nope, no power newyorkersedai - 23/09/2010 03:05:30 AM 1934 Views
So here's what happens... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:15:03 PM 2486 Views
Thanks. A few comments... Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:27:33 PM 1980 Views
I don't rule out the angreal... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:32:40 PM 1986 Views
Elayne's weakest angreal doubles her strength. Graendal x2 can easily shield Cyndane+Moggy, so... Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:35:06 PM 2130 Views
Graendal's seemed much weaker... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:52:20 PM 1980 Views
Elayne also called the x2 turtle angreal "weak"... Shannow - 21/09/2010 08:00:01 PM 2020 Views
and we know it wasn't enough to overwhlem Verin's circle darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 08:02:13 PM 1871 Views
I disasgree. There is no evidence that Aran'gar was holding saidin at the time darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:42:23 PM 1979 Views
Then why did she gasp at the shield? She couldn't have known what Graendal was weaving. fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:52:49 PM 1988 Views
because she was surprised that Graendal would put a shield on her in the first place darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:58:45 PM 2006 Views
How did she know there was a shield? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:16:59 PM 1967 Views
Fact: Graendal cannot shield a male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai if they are holding the Source... Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:28:17 PM 1950 Views
Who said "they"? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:55:28 PM 1933 Views
Depends on the level of surprise, I guess. If he was only holding a trickle of saidin, then maybe Shannow - 21/09/2010 10:05:37 PM 2013 Views
I don't think strength is the only determinant... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:24:24 PM 1938 Views
I really don't think you have to be holding the source to know you've been shielded Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:29:20 PM 1870 Views
Provide evidence? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:36:36 PM 1964 Views
Thanks, but like I said, they were both wrapped in air. That's enough for Aran'gar to wonder Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:44:17 PM 1878 Views
They gasped before Graendal wove Air... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 11:13:48 PM 1935 Views
Alright, you win *NM* Deadsy - 22/09/2010 02:51:26 AM 1205 Views
*NM* fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:06:22 AM 1045 Views
Siuan was distracted by a number of other things going on, not to mention how suspect darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 02:43:36 PM 1828 Views
And Aran'gar was fully focussed on Graendal? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:02:16 PM 2085 Views
More so than Siuan was on Elaida when they were shielded. darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:33:15 PM 2878 Views
So? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:48:11 PM 1754 Views
It doesn't matter. There are more Shieldings that go unnoticed when not holding the Source Mik - 22/09/2010 03:55:48 PM 1867 Views
Nice catches! fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 04:06:52 PM 2015 Views
we don't know that darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 02:35:50 PM 1925 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:03:52 PM 1862 Views
Give over, Darius... there's plenty of evidence... Mik - 22/09/2010 03:45:11 PM 1908 Views
Give over what? There is no hard evidence that Aran'gar wouldn't notice a shield put on her darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:00:11 PM 1810 Views
What rot... (also, Egwene and Rand) fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 05:21:08 PM 1939 Views
take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:38:21 PM 1899 Views
Re: take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:45:05 PM 2037 Views
if it was JUST one shield ... but she's shielding an AS and weaving a Gateway too! darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:48:52 PM 3932 Views
Well... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:00:26 PM 1939 Views
She says... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:04:32 PM 1947 Views
no one is arguing that darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:09:17 PM 1920 Views
Er... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:19:09 PM 1881 Views
I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:20:48 PM 2696 Views
Re: I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:26:52 PM 2658 Views
Again, I just find that option completely unlikely since Graendals angreal isn't all that strong darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:39:02 PM 1936 Views
You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 01:53:25 AM 2014 Views
Re: You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 03:42:31 PM 1895 Views
fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:54:02 PM 1910 Views
Re: . The evidence is that no channeled is that strong! darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 04:04:02 PM 2023 Views
Really? fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 06:11:00 PM 1984 Views
Re: Really? Sidious - 23/09/2010 09:56:09 PM 1857 Views
That's my point *NM* darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 12:20:45 AM 1183 Views
Dear God! The sheer amount of replies here just blew my mind, and my window (jk). *NM* Bookwyrm - 24/09/2010 07:28:14 PM 1239 Views
Y o u' r e h u r t i n g m y s c r o l l b a r *NM* Marshall - 24/09/2010 11:30:27 PM 1189 Views
Re: She says... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:12:48 PM 1917 Views
Exactly. fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 01:54:05 AM 1887 Views
The way it reads she is holding open a Gateway, then slams shields on both darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:08:17 PM 1868 Views
Continue being irrational then... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 05:46:19 PM 1994 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:53:05 PM 1871 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:03:02 PM 1869 Views
Nope darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:19:30 PM 1766 Views
Re: Nope fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 02:06:35 AM 1923 Views
Toveine! Now THAT is a good catch, fionwe! Mik - 23/09/2010 07:57:05 AM 2033 Views
Sidious pointed it out, actually. But thanks! fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:55:29 PM 1922 Views
And you ignore all the evidence in the series that definitively makes it impossible for Graendal to darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 03:57:49 PM 1809 Views
Well... Sidious - 23/09/2010 04:31:27 PM 1974 Views
According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 11:18:30 PM 2146 Views
Re: According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal Sidious - 25/09/2010 09:38:41 AM 1954 Views
Possible, but he specifically calls out when she ties off other weaves in the scene darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 04:28:48 PM 1945 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... iHeartGraendal - 24/09/2010 03:20:49 AM 2111 Views
Oh come on.. be real Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:39:51 PM 1866 Views
see that's an argument that makes more sense to me darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:47:17 PM 1967 Views
Re: How did she know there was a shield? Gee69 - 24/09/2010 04:42:25 AM 1876 Views
You can sense the source when shielded. Entering a stedding you can't even sense it. *NM* Myrdhyn - 24/09/2010 02:46:09 PM 1288 Views
You'[re missing the part about the bonds of air as well Ryan - 21/09/2010 11:06:04 PM 1890 Views
No. The sequence was shield-gasp-tie off shield-wrap in Air. *NM* fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 11:14:41 PM 1224 Views
We have seen people holding the source caught off guard by a shield *NM* Ryan - 22/09/2010 12:10:48 AM 1182 Views
Well, exactly! fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 02:01:12 AM 1933 Views
Aran'gar and Delana were caught with their pants down by Graendal Ryan - 22/09/2010 06:40:41 AM 2190 Views
What I think happened Sidious - 22/09/2010 09:19:57 AM 1903 Views
It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... Shannow - 22/09/2010 10:06:47 AM 1869 Views
Re: It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... Sidious - 22/09/2010 01:31:52 PM 1983 Views
Fair point. Shannow - 22/09/2010 02:07:05 PM 1942 Views
I think it also bears mentioning that ... Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 04:17:17 PM 1936 Views
Graendal knew Aran'gar was distracted malekithe - 23/09/2010 07:10:52 AM 1882 Views
About shielding a channeler holding the Source... lilltempest - 22/09/2010 05:51:34 PM 2980 Views
Re: About shielding a channeler holding the Source... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:04:37 PM 3398 Views
The angreal makes this an unnecessary debate... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:09:20 PM 1867 Views
she never shielded them darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:22:29 PM 1869 Views
True...But it made her strong enough to easily overcome both... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:28:12 PM 1821 Views
This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:51:19 PM 1938 Views
Re: This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:54:18 PM 1875 Views
LMAO... nice! darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 08:24:20 PM 1871 Views
I think we need to place Aran'gar lower too.. fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:10:29 PM 1980 Views
A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:13:51 PM 1795 Views
I would agree Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:22:50 PM 1971 Views
Re: I would agree darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:25:46 PM 1815 Views
Re: A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:03:26 AM 1875 Views
Mostly agree darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:23:53 PM 1870 Views
Re: Mostly agree Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:28:42 PM 1830 Views
Ever wonder why Graendal was given an angreal in the first place... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:34:21 PM 1943 Views
Re: Ever wonder why Graendal was given an angreal in the first place... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:50:55 PM 1975 Views
I am starting to believe that RJ didn't think quite so literally darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 08:07:45 PM 1908 Views
Not sure if you agreed with this before, but I reached this point awhile ago bwahaha RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/09/2010 08:53:42 PM 1912 Views
I've been on this side for a good long while darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 09:40:43 PM 2020 Views
*NM* alanna aes sedai - 28/09/2010 11:54:54 PM 1145 Views
Well there is one thing to consider about this darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:32:44 PM 2155 Views
Yes, that seems the most likely answer. That and the use of the angreal. Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:35:53 PM 1983 Views
Aren't female channelers more dexterous in weaving than male? So her speed could be part of that. *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 03:42:56 AM 1163 Views
Re: Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... The Angry Druid - 01/10/2010 12:23:57 AM 1922 Views
I'm disappointed that the dove was not hidden in a background description in the tGS scene... Shannow - 21/09/2010 08:22:29 PM 2024 Views
I was thinking the same thing ... was actually just about to go look for it myself! darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 09:01:34 PM 2040 Views
I'm happy there wasn't... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:18:30 PM 2011 Views
Do you have more detail on Graendal's comments about Aginor's extensive use of the True Power? Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:23:48 PM 1958 Views
Re: Do you have more detail on Graendal's comments about Aginor's extensive use of the True Power? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:52:07 PM 2099 Views
Very interesting. Another case of a character never utilised to his full potential in the series... Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:57:42 PM 1849 Views
True... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:02:59 PM 1848 Views
So there are 6 Forsaken left. Tom - 21/09/2010 10:23:22 PM 2147 Views
For the record Heiko - 21/09/2010 10:53:16 PM 2036 Views
She opened two Gateways, IIRC BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:58:29 PM 1930 Views
Re: She opened two Gateways, IIRC Heiko - 22/09/2010 02:21:47 AM 2008 Views
I am so glad Graendal is alive. I (& hopefully other "Graendal's Alive" supporters) feel vindicated. *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 03:01:07 AM 1317 Views
Did anyone else feel that the Graendal scene was one big infodump? Marshall - 22/09/2010 03:32:44 AM 2071 Views
That's exactly what I was thinking the entire time. It didn't ruin my enjoyment though. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:12:00 PM 1925 Views
Wait...so NO ONE has wanted to discuss the Sapphic scene at Graendal's place? Tom - 22/09/2010 03:48:36 AM 2121 Views
yes, totally Lesbian. *NM* darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:04:16 PM 1201 Views
No, the other L word. "LesbiAHNS?" *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 04:18:55 PM 1251 Views
Yes, it was totally lesbian. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:09:19 PM 1886 Views
No, not at all. Aran'gar is still a dude at heart. I think. *NM* BlackAdder - 22/09/2010 08:18:55 PM 1197 Views
I tend to agree Sidious - 23/09/2010 05:42:52 PM 1919 Views
Lady parts + Lady parts = Lesbian sex darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 11:24:36 PM 2542 Views
Yes, but its still a little off Sidious - 25/09/2010 09:40:16 AM 1966 Views
Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 04:41:33 PM 2111 Views
Re: Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose Sidious - 25/09/2010 05:25:10 PM 2013 Views
What does Graendal think of Rand? Sidious - 22/09/2010 02:00:28 PM 2090 Views
She was really surprised and scared. Rurouni_Kenshin - 22/09/2010 02:11:28 PM 2045 Views
I take it you haven't read the Prologue. Tom - 22/09/2010 02:16:49 PM 1927 Views
Quite a bit... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 02:31:14 PM 2085 Views
Agreed, she's been worrying about him since the begining darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:18:48 PM 2147 Views
Thanks for the answers *NM* Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:46:05 PM 1168 Views
Second best prologue ever... lilltempest - 22/09/2010 06:24:44 PM 2311 Views
It's my favorite ever. Only one dark spot tarnished it. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:18:12 PM 1951 Views
Yeah, tEotW is the best... BlackAdder - 22/09/2010 08:22:12 PM 2004 Views
Aran'gar is a tool Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:31:36 PM 2155 Views
I would think this argues against your contention that she would hold saidin to the max... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:36:09 PM 1916 Views
Re: I would think this argues against your contention that she would hold saidin to the max... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:51:53 PM 1843 Views
Remembering the last time male channelers held reversed weaves in the presence of Rand's party... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:55:12 PM 1814 Views
Yes. s/He was. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/09/2010 08:59:16 PM 1951 Views
Shadow invading Kandor and Lan riding trough it. CONNECTION? 4th Dimension - 22/09/2010 08:36:05 PM 2120 Views
Are Fain's resurrected trollocks undead? RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 01:43:01 AM 1943 Views
After 13 books you still can't spell "trollocs"...wow...that's just...wow... *NM* Tom - 23/09/2010 03:41:24 PM 1211 Views
Thanks for taking up space on this board to point out my shortcomings. Always appreciated. *NM* RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 05:23:19 PM 1170 Views
Sidious - 23/09/2010 04:47:11 PM 2044 Views
Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO Etzel - 23/09/2010 05:45:41 PM 2078 Views
Re: Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO Sidious - 23/09/2010 09:54:33 PM 2011 Views
Well, that is one prediction I made correctly! Etzel would find a way to make it look like Slayer darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 05:43:20 PM 2084 Views
I believe that Sanderson concocted the entire Graendal/Rand/Balefire part Marshall - 23/09/2010 10:24:46 PM 2697 Views
I had a similar thought, but... RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 10:40:58 PM 2002 Views
Probably not Sanderson 4th Dimension - 23/09/2010 11:11:54 PM 2013 Views
No way Rurouni_Kenshin - 24/09/2010 07:14:35 AM 1931 Views
I can't see team Jordan allowing any deviation on what RJ would have laid out darius_sedai - 12/10/2010 08:32:50 PM 2106 Views
I agree. *NM* Etzel - 25/09/2010 09:42:46 AM 1208 Views
A few nits Terez - 12/10/2010 10:21:27 AM 1929 Views
Canadian Download site alanna aes sedai - 29/09/2010 12:05:12 AM 2482 Views
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