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Re: Mostly agree Sidious Send a noteboard - 22/09/2010 07:28:42 PM
Arguments that Aran'gar couldn't have survived if he was weaker don't make sense, since Moghedien clearly did. None of the Forsaken seem to think Moghedien was especially weak in the OP. Which tells me the general range of the Forsaken is a little more spread out.

I also think the fact that Graendal can do all this either on her own or with a weak angreal proves that she is at the higher levels, and almost certainly equalled Sammael at least, as Moridin's PoV suggested. This also lends further credence to the theory that Lanfear was, for all intents and purposes, as strong as Rand and Ishamael.


Graendal seems to be the second strongest of the women and this (angreal or no) drives that point home.



And yet with more than one 'level' between her and Lanfear. I've always found that to be very odd.
Wheel of Time board admin
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Towers of Midnight : Prologue discussion - 21/09/2010 04:38:40 AM 8525 Views
Me Too! Guess who is alive!! - 21/09/2010 04:44:40 AM 2262 Views
A dove, that's weird - 21/09/2010 03:19:10 PM 2009 Views
Re: A dove, that's weird - 21/09/2010 03:26:39 PM 1961 Views
Yes, that's the point - 21/09/2010 11:49:00 PM 1809 Views
It did feel a bit deus ex machina - 22/09/2010 12:03:05 AM 1932 Views
Fain is as creepy as ever - 21/09/2010 05:06:35 AM 2052 Views
You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) *NM* - 21/09/2010 05:10:47 AM 1256 Views
Re: You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) - 21/09/2010 05:14:26 AM 2128 Views
It's D/L on B&N now *NM* - 21/09/2010 05:15:44 AM 1156 Views
Anyone find the audiobook version? *NM* - 21/09/2010 10:20:22 AM 1142 Views
I love the borderlanders - 21/09/2010 05:25:29 AM 1995 Views
Best scene of the prologue *NM* - 21/09/2010 03:28:28 PM 1209 Views
Could somebody post a link to where they got it? I want to go to a site where I can download now *NM* - 21/09/2010 05:39:13 AM 1123 Views
I posted some links here - 21/09/2010 06:04:38 AM 1851 Views
My quick summary - 21/09/2010 06:02:41 AM 2633 Views
Whoa, whoa, whoa. - 23/09/2010 02:59:37 AM 1723 Views
It's good, but... Perrin. Ugh. - 21/09/2010 07:37:43 AM 2047 Views
Awesome! - 21/09/2010 09:00:45 AM 1805 Views
Regarding Graendal - 21/09/2010 10:12:42 AM 2301 Views
Some things... - 21/09/2010 01:18:10 PM 1855 Views
I'm glad. Being right is a good feeling - 21/09/2010 04:12:08 PM 1818 Views
a very weak angreal - 21/09/2010 04:55:15 PM 1812 Views
Even a weak angreal - 21/09/2010 05:47:26 PM 1760 Views
The Angreal Elayne mentions made her 2x as strong as Nynaeve - 21/09/2010 06:04:21 PM 1643 Views
The laughter in Perrin's Dream - 21/09/2010 02:24:14 PM 1881 Views
Probably Slayer - 21/09/2010 04:29:41 PM 1767 Views
Re: Probably Slayer - 21/09/2010 04:39:36 PM 1575 Views
Audio Book - 21/09/2010 06:39:54 PM 1708 Views
Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... - 21/09/2010 06:46:42 PM 1911 Views
It's different (I think?) but I'm certainly no expert and I'm sure someone else will reply - 21/09/2010 06:57:18 PM 1823 Views
OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not - 21/09/2010 07:00:23 PM 1628 Views
Re: OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not. - 21/09/2010 07:11:42 PM 1752 Views
Thanks. Was Arangar channeling at the time? - 21/09/2010 07:13:53 PM 1732 Views
I think so, yes. - 21/09/2010 07:15:44 PM 1674 Views
I don't think so actually - 21/09/2010 07:57:42 PM 1749 Views
I don't think Aran'gar was channeling - 21/09/2010 11:00:22 PM 1695 Views
I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd *NM* - 21/09/2010 11:52:01 PM 981 Views
no she wasn't *NM* - 21/09/2010 10:25:13 PM 1088 Views
nope, no power - 23/09/2010 03:05:30 AM 1584 Views
So here's what happens... - 21/09/2010 07:15:03 PM 2116 Views
Thanks. A few comments... - 21/09/2010 07:27:33 PM 1594 Views
I don't rule out the angreal... - 21/09/2010 07:32:40 PM 1613 Views
Elayne's weakest angreal doubles her strength. Graendal x2 can easily shield Cyndane+Moggy, so... - 21/09/2010 07:35:06 PM 1757 Views
Graendal's seemed much weaker... - 21/09/2010 07:52:20 PM 1612 Views
Elayne also called the x2 turtle angreal "weak"... - 21/09/2010 08:00:01 PM 1642 Views
and we know it wasn't enough to overwhlem Verin's circle - 21/09/2010 08:02:13 PM 1478 Views
I disasgree. There is no evidence that Aran'gar was holding saidin at the time - 21/09/2010 07:42:23 PM 1577 Views
Then why did she gasp at the shield? She couldn't have known what Graendal was weaving. - 21/09/2010 07:52:49 PM 1613 Views
because she was surprised that Graendal would put a shield on her in the first place - 21/09/2010 07:58:45 PM 1634 Views
How did she know there was a shield? - 21/09/2010 09:16:59 PM 1586 Views
Fact: Graendal cannot shield a male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai if they are holding the Source... - 21/09/2010 09:28:17 PM 1561 Views
Who said "they"? - 21/09/2010 09:55:28 PM 1558 Views
I really don't think you have to be holding the source to know you've been shielded - 21/09/2010 10:29:20 PM 1515 Views
Provide evidence? - 21/09/2010 10:36:36 PM 1563 Views
Thanks, but like I said, they were both wrapped in air. That's enough for Aran'gar to wonder - 21/09/2010 10:44:17 PM 1492 Views
They gasped before Graendal wove Air... - 21/09/2010 11:13:48 PM 1570 Views
Alright, you win *NM* - 22/09/2010 02:51:26 AM 1027 Views
*NM* - 22/09/2010 03:06:22 AM 886 Views
Siuan was distracted by a number of other things going on, not to mention how suspect - 22/09/2010 02:43:36 PM 1475 Views
And Aran'gar was fully focussed on Graendal? - 22/09/2010 03:02:16 PM 1705 Views
More so than Siuan was on Elaida when they were shielded. - 22/09/2010 03:33:15 PM 2501 Views
So? - 22/09/2010 03:48:11 PM 1404 Views
It doesn't matter. There are more Shieldings that go unnoticed when not holding the Source - 22/09/2010 03:55:48 PM 1487 Views
Nice catches! - 22/09/2010 04:06:52 PM 1612 Views
we don't know that - 22/09/2010 02:35:50 PM 1552 Views
Huh? - 22/09/2010 03:03:52 PM 1496 Views
Give over, Darius... there's plenty of evidence... - 22/09/2010 03:45:11 PM 1540 Views
Give over what? There is no hard evidence that Aran'gar wouldn't notice a shield put on her - 22/09/2010 05:00:11 PM 1434 Views
What rot... (also, Egwene and Rand) - 22/09/2010 05:21:08 PM 1552 Views
take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. - 22/09/2010 05:38:21 PM 1527 Views
Re: take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. - 22/09/2010 05:45:05 PM 1661 Views
if it was JUST one shield ... but she's shielding an AS and weaving a Gateway too! - 22/09/2010 05:48:52 PM 3563 Views
Well... - 22/09/2010 07:00:26 PM 1586 Views
She says... - 22/09/2010 07:04:32 PM 1589 Views
no one is arguing that - 22/09/2010 07:09:17 PM 1534 Views
Er... - 22/09/2010 07:19:09 PM 1486 Views
I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded - 22/09/2010 07:20:48 PM 2320 Views
Re: I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded - 22/09/2010 07:26:52 PM 2284 Views
Again, I just find that option completely unlikely since Graendals angreal isn't all that strong - 22/09/2010 07:39:02 PM 1558 Views
You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. - 23/09/2010 01:53:25 AM 1624 Views
Re: You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. - 23/09/2010 03:42:31 PM 1529 Views
- 23/09/2010 03:54:02 PM 1527 Views
Re: . The evidence is that no channeled is that strong! - 23/09/2010 04:04:02 PM 1656 Views
Really? - 23/09/2010 06:11:00 PM 1611 Views
Re: Really? - 23/09/2010 09:56:09 PM 1481 Views
That's my point *NM* - 24/09/2010 12:20:45 AM 1021 Views
Dear God! The sheer amount of replies here just blew my mind, and my window (jk). *NM* - 24/09/2010 07:28:14 PM 1055 Views
Y o u' r e h u r t i n g m y s c r o l l b a r *NM* - 24/09/2010 11:30:27 PM 1032 Views
Re: She says... - 22/09/2010 07:12:48 PM 1541 Views
Exactly. - 23/09/2010 01:54:05 AM 1518 Views
The way it reads she is holding open a Gateway, then slams shields on both - 22/09/2010 07:08:17 PM 1496 Views
Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 05:46:19 PM 1613 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 05:53:05 PM 1480 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 07:03:02 PM 1485 Views
Nope - 22/09/2010 07:19:30 PM 1379 Views
Re: Nope - 23/09/2010 02:06:35 AM 1543 Views
Toveine! Now THAT is a good catch, fionwe! - 23/09/2010 07:57:05 AM 1656 Views
Sidious pointed it out, actually. But thanks! - 23/09/2010 03:55:29 PM 1538 Views
And you ignore all the evidence in the series that definitively makes it impossible for Graendal to - 23/09/2010 03:57:49 PM 1426 Views
Well... - 23/09/2010 04:31:27 PM 1598 Views
According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal - 24/09/2010 11:18:30 PM 1742 Views
Re: According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal - 25/09/2010 09:38:41 AM 1586 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... - 24/09/2010 03:20:49 AM 1705 Views
Oh come on.. be real - 22/09/2010 05:39:51 PM 1501 Views
see that's an argument that makes more sense to me - 22/09/2010 05:47:17 PM 1581 Views
Re: How did she know there was a shield? - 24/09/2010 04:42:25 AM 1532 Views
You'[re missing the part about the bonds of air as well - 21/09/2010 11:06:04 PM 1519 Views
No. The sequence was shield-gasp-tie off shield-wrap in Air. *NM* - 21/09/2010 11:14:41 PM 1064 Views
We have seen people holding the source caught off guard by a shield *NM* - 22/09/2010 12:10:48 AM 1020 Views
Well, exactly! - 22/09/2010 02:01:12 AM 1574 Views
What I think happened - 22/09/2010 09:19:57 AM 1524 Views
It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... - 22/09/2010 10:06:47 AM 1499 Views
Re: It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... - 22/09/2010 01:31:52 PM 1582 Views
Fair point. - 22/09/2010 02:07:05 PM 1555 Views
I think it also bears mentioning that ... - 22/09/2010 04:17:17 PM 1576 Views
Graendal knew Aran'gar was distracted - 23/09/2010 07:10:52 AM 1501 Views
About shielding a channeler holding the Source... - 22/09/2010 05:51:34 PM 2615 Views
Re: About shielding a channeler holding the Source... - 22/09/2010 07:04:37 PM 3041 Views
The angreal makes this an unnecessary debate... - 22/09/2010 07:09:20 PM 1489 Views
she never shielded them - 22/09/2010 07:22:29 PM 1500 Views
True...But it made her strong enough to easily overcome both... - 22/09/2010 07:28:12 PM 1446 Views
This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned - 22/09/2010 07:51:19 PM 1559 Views
Re: This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned - 22/09/2010 07:54:18 PM 1500 Views
LMAO... nice! - 22/09/2010 08:24:20 PM 1518 Views
I think we need to place Aran'gar lower too.. - 22/09/2010 07:10:29 PM 1594 Views
A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... - 22/09/2010 07:13:51 PM 1426 Views
I would agree - 22/09/2010 07:22:50 PM 1579 Views
Re: I would agree - 22/09/2010 07:25:46 PM 1429 Views
Re: A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... - 23/09/2010 03:03:26 AM 1504 Views
Mostly agree - 22/09/2010 07:23:53 PM 1504 Views
Re: Mostly agree - 22/09/2010 07:28:42 PM 1449 Views
I am starting to believe that RJ didn't think quite so literally - 22/09/2010 08:07:45 PM 1508 Views
Not sure if you agreed with this before, but I reached this point awhile ago bwahaha - 22/09/2010 08:53:42 PM 1543 Views
I've been on this side for a good long while - 22/09/2010 09:40:43 PM 1642 Views
*NM* - 28/09/2010 11:54:54 PM 985 Views
Well there is one thing to consider about this - 21/09/2010 07:32:44 PM 1758 Views
So there are 6 Forsaken left. - 21/09/2010 10:23:22 PM 1807 Views
For the record - 21/09/2010 10:53:16 PM 1687 Views
She opened two Gateways, IIRC - 21/09/2010 11:58:29 PM 1571 Views
Re: She opened two Gateways, IIRC - 22/09/2010 02:21:47 AM 1618 Views
Wait...so NO ONE has wanted to discuss the Sapphic scene at Graendal's place? - 22/09/2010 03:48:36 AM 1754 Views
yes, totally Lesbian. *NM* - 22/09/2010 03:04:16 PM 1030 Views
No, the other L word. "LesbiAHNS?" *NM* - 22/09/2010 04:18:55 PM 1086 Views
Yes, it was totally lesbian. - 22/09/2010 07:09:19 PM 1524 Views
No, not at all. Aran'gar is still a dude at heart. I think. *NM* - 22/09/2010 08:18:55 PM 1043 Views
I tend to agree - 23/09/2010 05:42:52 PM 1547 Views
Lady parts + Lady parts = Lesbian sex - 24/09/2010 11:24:36 PM 2163 Views
Yes, but its still a little off - 25/09/2010 09:40:16 AM 1596 Views
Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose - 25/09/2010 04:41:33 PM 1751 Views
Re: Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose - 25/09/2010 05:25:10 PM 1665 Views
What does Graendal think of Rand? - 22/09/2010 02:00:28 PM 1718 Views
She was really surprised and scared. - 22/09/2010 02:11:28 PM 1687 Views
I take it you haven't read the Prologue. - 22/09/2010 02:16:49 PM 1562 Views
Quite a bit... - 22/09/2010 02:31:14 PM 1726 Views
Agreed, she's been worrying about him since the begining - 22/09/2010 03:18:48 PM 1767 Views
Thanks for the answers *NM* - 22/09/2010 05:46:05 PM 1002 Views
Second best prologue ever... - 22/09/2010 06:24:44 PM 1960 Views
It's my favorite ever. Only one dark spot tarnished it. - 22/09/2010 07:18:12 PM 1594 Views
Yeah, tEotW is the best... - 22/09/2010 08:22:12 PM 1617 Views
Aran'gar is a tool - 22/09/2010 07:31:36 PM 1752 Views
Yes. s/He was. - 22/09/2010 08:59:16 PM 1593 Views
Shadow invading Kandor and Lan riding trough it. CONNECTION? - 22/09/2010 08:36:05 PM 1764 Views
- 23/09/2010 04:47:11 PM 1671 Views
Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO - 23/09/2010 05:45:41 PM 1687 Views
Re: Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO - 23/09/2010 09:54:33 PM 1639 Views
I believe that Sanderson concocted the entire Graendal/Rand/Balefire part - 23/09/2010 10:24:46 PM 2319 Views
I had a similar thought, but... - 23/09/2010 10:40:58 PM 1599 Views
Probably not Sanderson - 23/09/2010 11:11:54 PM 1640 Views
No way - 24/09/2010 07:14:35 AM 1566 Views
I agree. *NM* - 25/09/2010 09:42:46 AM 1052 Views
A few nits - 12/10/2010 10:21:27 AM 1575 Views
Canadian Download site - 29/09/2010 12:05:12 AM 2072 Views

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