Active Users:642 Time:31/10/2026 05:28:24 AM
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules
And you ignore all the evidence in the series that definitively makes it impossible for Graendal to darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 23/09/2010 03:57:49 PM
Do everything she did without an angreal! Even with her weak angreal she may not have been able to do this! Instead of trying to prove something impossible from the chapter start thinking about what would make Graendal's acts doable. Two options:

1. She had her angreal and it was stronger than we've previously given it credit for
2. Aran'gar was not holding the Power and was caught by surprise. Her Gasp could mean anything.

Your supposition that Graendal's statement of losing objects of the power is silly since she could have had dozen's on ter'angs for all we know!
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 23/09/2010 at 03:59:42 PM
Reply to message
Towers of Midnight : Prologue discussion fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 04:38:40 AM 9516 Views
Me Too! Guess who is alive!! PatAtt - 21/09/2010 04:44:40 AM 2806 Views
A dove, that's weird BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 03:19:10 PM 2648 Views
Re: A dove, that's weird Ryan - 21/09/2010 03:26:39 PM 2579 Views
Yes, that's the point BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:49:00 PM 2387 Views
It did feel a bit deus ex machina Ryan - 22/09/2010 12:03:05 AM 2524 Views
What Ryan said. And we only assumed that they can only use those animals *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 06:53:05 PM 1552 Views
Fain is as creepy as ever PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:06:35 AM 2654 Views
You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 05:10:47 AM 1581 Views
Re: You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:14:26 AM 2745 Views
It's D/L on B&N now *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 05:15:44 AM 1494 Views
Anyone find the audiobook version? *NM* Yuri - 21/09/2010 10:20:22 AM 1446 Views
If you're in the US, Audible.com. No clue about availability in the UK. *NM* RandAllThor - 21/09/2010 06:29:45 PM 1487 Views
I love the borderlanders PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:25:29 AM 2588 Views
Best scene of the prologue *NM* Ryan - 21/09/2010 03:28:28 PM 1523 Views
Could somebody post a link to where they got it? I want to go to a site where I can download now *NM* Guava - 21/09/2010 05:39:13 AM 1560 Views
I posted some links here PatAtt - 21/09/2010 06:04:38 AM 2469 Views
My quick summary PatAtt - 21/09/2010 06:02:41 AM 3283 Views
Whoa, whoa, whoa. DREWRULESWOT! - 23/09/2010 02:59:37 AM 2315 Views
It's good, but... Perrin. Ugh. Deadsy - 21/09/2010 07:37:43 AM 2622 Views
Awesome! Ryan - 21/09/2010 09:00:45 AM 2424 Views
Regarding Graendal Sidious - 21/09/2010 10:12:42 AM 2914 Views
Some things... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 01:18:10 PM 2554 Views
I'm glad. Being right is a good feeling RugbyPlayingAshaman - 21/09/2010 04:12:08 PM 2459 Views
a very weak angreal darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 04:55:15 PM 2485 Views
Even a weak angreal malekithe - 21/09/2010 05:47:26 PM 2402 Views
The Angreal Elayne mentions made her 2x as strong as Nynaeve darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 06:04:21 PM 2280 Views
Graendal watched Aran'gar get nuked. Aran'gar is gone gone gone. Tom - 21/09/2010 10:11:41 PM 2399 Views
The laughter in Perrin's Dream Syraelle - 21/09/2010 02:24:14 PM 2507 Views
Probably Slayer RugbyPlayingAshaman - 21/09/2010 04:29:41 PM 2416 Views
Re: Probably Slayer Syraelle - 21/09/2010 04:39:36 PM 2237 Views
Audio Book Matt_at_Heart - 21/09/2010 06:39:54 PM 2323 Views
Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... Shannow - 21/09/2010 06:46:42 PM 2554 Views
It's different (I think?) but I'm certainly no expert and I'm sure someone else will reply Deadsy - 21/09/2010 06:57:18 PM 2437 Views
OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:00:23 PM 2246 Views
Re: OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not. Deadsy - 21/09/2010 07:11:42 PM 2341 Views
Thanks. Was Arangar channeling at the time? Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:13:53 PM 2335 Views
I think so, yes. fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:15:44 PM 2277 Views
I don't think so actually darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:57:42 PM 2408 Views
I don't think Aran'gar was channeling Ryan - 21/09/2010 11:00:22 PM 2330 Views
I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd *NM* BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:52:01 PM 1274 Views
Re: I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd Heiko - 22/09/2010 02:57:02 AM 2174 Views
no she wasn't *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:25:13 PM 1413 Views
nope, no power newyorkersedai - 23/09/2010 03:05:30 AM 2221 Views
So here's what happens... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:15:03 PM 2731 Views
Thanks. A few comments... Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:27:33 PM 2256 Views
I don't rule out the angreal... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:32:40 PM 2191 Views
Elayne's weakest angreal doubles her strength. Graendal x2 can easily shield Cyndane+Moggy, so... Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:35:06 PM 2379 Views
Graendal's seemed much weaker... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:52:20 PM 2201 Views
Elayne also called the x2 turtle angreal "weak"... Shannow - 21/09/2010 08:00:01 PM 2250 Views
and we know it wasn't enough to overwhlem Verin's circle darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 08:02:13 PM 2080 Views
I disasgree. There is no evidence that Aran'gar was holding saidin at the time darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:42:23 PM 2252 Views
Then why did she gasp at the shield? She couldn't have known what Graendal was weaving. fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:52:49 PM 2233 Views
because she was surprised that Graendal would put a shield on her in the first place darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:58:45 PM 2258 Views
How did she know there was a shield? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:16:59 PM 2198 Views
Fact: Graendal cannot shield a male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai if they are holding the Source... Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:28:17 PM 2188 Views
Who said "they"? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:55:28 PM 2203 Views
Depends on the level of surprise, I guess. If he was only holding a trickle of saidin, then maybe Shannow - 21/09/2010 10:05:37 PM 2254 Views
I don't think strength is the only determinant... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:24:24 PM 2160 Views
I really don't think you have to be holding the source to know you've been shielded Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:29:20 PM 2102 Views
Provide evidence? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:36:36 PM 2195 Views
Thanks, but like I said, they were both wrapped in air. That's enough for Aran'gar to wonder Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:44:17 PM 2091 Views
They gasped before Graendal wove Air... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 11:13:48 PM 2153 Views
Alright, you win *NM* Deadsy - 22/09/2010 02:51:26 AM 1335 Views
*NM* fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:06:22 AM 1174 Views
Siuan was distracted by a number of other things going on, not to mention how suspect darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 02:43:36 PM 2149 Views
And Aran'gar was fully focussed on Graendal? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:02:16 PM 2330 Views
More so than Siuan was on Elaida when they were shielded. darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:33:15 PM 3102 Views
So? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:48:11 PM 2013 Views
It doesn't matter. There are more Shieldings that go unnoticed when not holding the Source Mik - 22/09/2010 03:55:48 PM 2095 Views
Nice catches! fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 04:06:52 PM 2258 Views
we don't know that darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 02:35:50 PM 2158 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:03:52 PM 2085 Views
Give over, Darius... there's plenty of evidence... Mik - 22/09/2010 03:45:11 PM 2125 Views
Give over what? There is no hard evidence that Aran'gar wouldn't notice a shield put on her darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:00:11 PM 2016 Views
What rot... (also, Egwene and Rand) fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 05:21:08 PM 2172 Views
take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:38:21 PM 2123 Views
Re: take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:45:05 PM 2276 Views
if it was JUST one shield ... but she's shielding an AS and weaving a Gateway too! darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:48:52 PM 4185 Views
Well... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:00:26 PM 2164 Views
She says... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:04:32 PM 2181 Views
no one is arguing that darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:09:17 PM 2160 Views
Er... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:19:09 PM 2101 Views
I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:20:48 PM 2915 Views
Re: I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:26:52 PM 2901 Views
Again, I just find that option completely unlikely since Graendals angreal isn't all that strong darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:39:02 PM 2196 Views
You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 01:53:25 AM 2228 Views
Re: You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 03:42:31 PM 2142 Views
fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:54:02 PM 2137 Views
Re: . The evidence is that no channeled is that strong! darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 04:04:02 PM 2236 Views
Really? fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 06:11:00 PM 2211 Views
Re: Really? Sidious - 23/09/2010 09:56:09 PM 2084 Views
That's my point *NM* darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 12:20:45 AM 1333 Views
Dear God! The sheer amount of replies here just blew my mind, and my window (jk). *NM* Bookwyrm - 24/09/2010 07:28:14 PM 1380 Views
Y o u' r e h u r t i n g m y s c r o l l b a r *NM* Marshall - 24/09/2010 11:30:27 PM 1323 Views
Re: She says... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:12:48 PM 2147 Views
Exactly. fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 01:54:05 AM 2106 Views
The way it reads she is holding open a Gateway, then slams shields on both darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:08:17 PM 2118 Views
Continue being irrational then... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 05:46:19 PM 2269 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:53:05 PM 2114 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:03:02 PM 2094 Views
Nope darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:19:30 PM 1990 Views
Re: Nope fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 02:06:35 AM 2135 Views
Toveine! Now THAT is a good catch, fionwe! Mik - 23/09/2010 07:57:05 AM 2248 Views
Sidious pointed it out, actually. But thanks! fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:55:29 PM 2150 Views
And you ignore all the evidence in the series that definitively makes it impossible for Graendal to darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 03:57:49 PM 2031 Views
Well... Sidious - 23/09/2010 04:31:27 PM 2214 Views
According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 11:18:30 PM 2438 Views
Re: According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal Sidious - 25/09/2010 09:38:41 AM 2227 Views
Possible, but he specifically calls out when she ties off other weaves in the scene darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 04:28:48 PM 2159 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... iHeartGraendal - 24/09/2010 03:20:49 AM 2348 Views
Oh come on.. be real Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:39:51 PM 2072 Views
see that's an argument that makes more sense to me darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:47:17 PM 2174 Views
Re: How did she know there was a shield? Gee69 - 24/09/2010 04:42:25 AM 2114 Views
You can sense the source when shielded. Entering a stedding you can't even sense it. *NM* Myrdhyn - 24/09/2010 02:46:09 PM 1417 Views
You'[re missing the part about the bonds of air as well Ryan - 21/09/2010 11:06:04 PM 2117 Views
No. The sequence was shield-gasp-tie off shield-wrap in Air. *NM* fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 11:14:41 PM 1358 Views
We have seen people holding the source caught off guard by a shield *NM* Ryan - 22/09/2010 12:10:48 AM 1333 Views
Well, exactly! fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 02:01:12 AM 2159 Views
Aran'gar and Delana were caught with their pants down by Graendal Ryan - 22/09/2010 06:40:41 AM 2436 Views
What I think happened Sidious - 22/09/2010 09:19:57 AM 2134 Views
It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... Shannow - 22/09/2010 10:06:47 AM 2083 Views
Re: It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... Sidious - 22/09/2010 01:31:52 PM 2230 Views
Fair point. Shannow - 22/09/2010 02:07:05 PM 2230 Views
I think it also bears mentioning that ... Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 04:17:17 PM 2158 Views
Graendal knew Aran'gar was distracted malekithe - 23/09/2010 07:10:52 AM 2141 Views
About shielding a channeler holding the Source... lilltempest - 22/09/2010 05:51:34 PM 3207 Views
Re: About shielding a channeler holding the Source... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:04:37 PM 3611 Views
The angreal makes this an unnecessary debate... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:09:20 PM 2108 Views
she never shielded them darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:22:29 PM 2104 Views
True...But it made her strong enough to easily overcome both... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:28:12 PM 2075 Views
This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:51:19 PM 2157 Views
Re: This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:54:18 PM 2095 Views
LMAO... nice! darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 08:24:20 PM 2117 Views
I think we need to place Aran'gar lower too.. fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:10:29 PM 2202 Views
A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:13:51 PM 2035 Views
I would agree Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:22:50 PM 2237 Views
Re: I would agree darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:25:46 PM 2086 Views
Re: A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:03:26 AM 2100 Views
Mostly agree darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:23:53 PM 2123 Views
Re: Mostly agree Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:28:42 PM 2082 Views
Ever wonder why Graendal was given an angreal in the first place... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:34:21 PM 2187 Views
Re: Ever wonder why Graendal was given an angreal in the first place... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:50:55 PM 2220 Views
I am starting to believe that RJ didn't think quite so literally darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 08:07:45 PM 2152 Views
Not sure if you agreed with this before, but I reached this point awhile ago bwahaha RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/09/2010 08:53:42 PM 2143 Views
I've been on this side for a good long while darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 09:40:43 PM 2250 Views
*NM* alanna aes sedai - 28/09/2010 11:54:54 PM 1289 Views
Well there is one thing to consider about this darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:32:44 PM 2384 Views
Yes, that seems the most likely answer. That and the use of the angreal. Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:35:53 PM 2224 Views
Aren't female channelers more dexterous in weaving than male? So her speed could be part of that. *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 03:42:56 AM 1297 Views
Re: Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... The Angry Druid - 01/10/2010 12:23:57 AM 2169 Views
I'm disappointed that the dove was not hidden in a background description in the tGS scene... Shannow - 21/09/2010 08:22:29 PM 2253 Views
I was thinking the same thing ... was actually just about to go look for it myself! darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 09:01:34 PM 2303 Views
I'm happy there wasn't... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:18:30 PM 2223 Views
Do you have more detail on Graendal's comments about Aginor's extensive use of the True Power? Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:23:48 PM 2180 Views
Re: Do you have more detail on Graendal's comments about Aginor's extensive use of the True Power? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:52:07 PM 2337 Views
Very interesting. Another case of a character never utilised to his full potential in the series... Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:57:42 PM 2100 Views
True... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:02:59 PM 2084 Views
So there are 6 Forsaken left. Tom - 21/09/2010 10:23:22 PM 2373 Views
For the record Heiko - 21/09/2010 10:53:16 PM 2287 Views
She opened two Gateways, IIRC BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:58:29 PM 2157 Views
Re: She opened two Gateways, IIRC Heiko - 22/09/2010 02:21:47 AM 2220 Views
I am so glad Graendal is alive. I (& hopefully other "Graendal's Alive" supporters) feel vindicated. *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 03:01:07 AM 1470 Views
Did anyone else feel that the Graendal scene was one big infodump? Marshall - 22/09/2010 03:32:44 AM 2299 Views
That's exactly what I was thinking the entire time. It didn't ruin my enjoyment though. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:12:00 PM 2148 Views
Wait...so NO ONE has wanted to discuss the Sapphic scene at Graendal's place? Tom - 22/09/2010 03:48:36 AM 2319 Views
yes, totally Lesbian. *NM* darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:04:16 PM 1338 Views
No, the other L word. "LesbiAHNS?" *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 04:18:55 PM 1478 Views
Yes, it was totally lesbian. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:09:19 PM 2133 Views
No, not at all. Aran'gar is still a dude at heart. I think. *NM* BlackAdder - 22/09/2010 08:18:55 PM 1321 Views
I tend to agree Sidious - 23/09/2010 05:42:52 PM 2135 Views
Lady parts + Lady parts = Lesbian sex darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 11:24:36 PM 2772 Views
Yes, but its still a little off Sidious - 25/09/2010 09:40:16 AM 2174 Views
Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 04:41:33 PM 2347 Views
Re: Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose Sidious - 25/09/2010 05:25:10 PM 2232 Views
What does Graendal think of Rand? Sidious - 22/09/2010 02:00:28 PM 2313 Views
She was really surprised and scared. Rurouni_Kenshin - 22/09/2010 02:11:28 PM 2283 Views
I take it you haven't read the Prologue. Tom - 22/09/2010 02:16:49 PM 2167 Views
Quite a bit... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 02:31:14 PM 2300 Views
Agreed, she's been worrying about him since the begining darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:18:48 PM 2402 Views
Thanks for the answers *NM* Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:46:05 PM 1300 Views
Second best prologue ever... lilltempest - 22/09/2010 06:24:44 PM 2563 Views
It's my favorite ever. Only one dark spot tarnished it. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:18:12 PM 2161 Views
Yeah, tEotW is the best... BlackAdder - 22/09/2010 08:22:12 PM 2237 Views
Aran'gar is a tool Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:31:36 PM 2404 Views
I would think this argues against your contention that she would hold saidin to the max... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:36:09 PM 2139 Views
Re: I would think this argues against your contention that she would hold saidin to the max... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:51:53 PM 2053 Views
Remembering the last time male channelers held reversed weaves in the presence of Rand's party... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:55:12 PM 2030 Views
Yes. s/He was. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/09/2010 08:59:16 PM 2202 Views
Shadow invading Kandor and Lan riding trough it. CONNECTION? 4th Dimension - 22/09/2010 08:36:05 PM 2374 Views
Are Fain's resurrected trollocks undead? RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 01:43:01 AM 2153 Views
After 13 books you still can't spell "trollocs"...wow...that's just...wow... *NM* Tom - 23/09/2010 03:41:24 PM 1359 Views
Thanks for taking up space on this board to point out my shortcomings. Always appreciated. *NM* RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 05:23:19 PM 1306 Views
Sidious - 23/09/2010 04:47:11 PM 2253 Views
Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO Etzel - 23/09/2010 05:45:41 PM 2313 Views
Re: Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO Sidious - 23/09/2010 09:54:33 PM 2245 Views
Well, that is one prediction I made correctly! Etzel would find a way to make it look like Slayer darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 05:43:20 PM 2304 Views
I believe that Sanderson concocted the entire Graendal/Rand/Balefire part Marshall - 23/09/2010 10:24:46 PM 2917 Views
I had a similar thought, but... RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 10:40:58 PM 2237 Views
Probably not Sanderson 4th Dimension - 23/09/2010 11:11:54 PM 2249 Views
No way Rurouni_Kenshin - 24/09/2010 07:14:35 AM 2147 Views
I can't see team Jordan allowing any deviation on what RJ would have laid out darius_sedai - 12/10/2010 08:32:50 PM 2340 Views
I agree. *NM* Etzel - 25/09/2010 09:42:46 AM 1334 Views
A few nits Terez - 12/10/2010 10:21:27 AM 2178 Views
Canadian Download site alanna aes sedai - 29/09/2010 12:05:12 AM 2741 Views
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules

Reply to Message

Block Quote Paragraph Quote
Formatting
Smiley Codes