Your analyses and extension of concepts always brings that "utter stupidity" phrase to my mind.
Cannoli Send a noteboard - 25/10/2010 02:17:10 AM
They are at war with the Aes Sedai. There is no other way to kill channelers, who hold too many other advantages.
So? Your idea of morality is "they are stronger than me, so anything goes"? Stop being a complete and utter fucktard for once, and look at what I wrote. I did not remotely indicate that, as the context shows. When you are AT WAR, and the other side has advantages, you cannot afford to concede them easy outs. For the Children, it is a similar case to guerilla warfare. Are the guerilla fighters evil for not fighting an enemy with tanks straight up and face to face so the enemy has a chance to surrender? Are they wrong for sneaking up and killing enemy soldiers by stealth without giving them a chance to switch sides? Don't be absurd. This is the same thing - they are war with an enemy they cannot safely capture or take prisoner. As Valda pointed out (in one of the more humorous passages of the series) live witches are somewhat hard to hang or put on trial, etc. They have NO recourse other than to kill them.
And explain to me what advantage Alanna's warder had over a group of Whitecloaks.
You mean the supernatural enhancements that made Gareth Bryne all giddy in the last book? The color-shifting cloak that identified him to the Children? Yet they assassinated him, rather than facing him up front.
It's WAR, you imbecile! Why did Egwene try to sneak up on the White Tower to change the chain? Why did she not go openly (actually she did, in effect, but that was just her own stupidity and ineptitude, not any effort at fairness)? Was not being stronger in the Power than any woman currently in the White Tower with weaves none of them knew not sufficient advantage? Given your belief that they would have been justified in killing Perrin since he attacked some of their group, Alanna too would have been justified in just destroying them in the blink of an eye. Yet she doesn't.
Because she's not allowed to. You SHOULD know that, since every now and then you try to dredge that restriction up as proof of her and her ilk's moral superiority (and what happened to your moral indignation over rapists anyway? According your own arbiter of all that is right about the Tower, what Alanna did is actually worse than gangbanging a minor - or at least it is in the case of Lan who, it could be argued, willingly signed up for it, given the oath he offered Moiraine; Alanna lacks even those excuses, since Rand had no intention of being a warder). The simple fact is, the Tower derives greater advantages from forgoing actually committing to a conflict, so Alanna could not. From her speech, she implies that she would have no qualms about killing them if she could, and only prudence and the limits of her abilities would keep her from doing as much. And this particular case is irrelevant, unless you can find a time I EVER said an Aes Sedai would be wrong in that situation. Which makes it pretty clear which group has more checks on their powers.
Because they have more advantages that way. There is no real check on their powers. Your assertion is purely rhetorical and unsupported by any evidence or argument. There are three very specific and limited restrictions on Aes Sedai's actions, which have numerous ways around them, and fail to cover an extreme range of abilities. The Children also do not use the Power as a weapon, and Asunawa does not lie. So he is just as restrained as any sister, but he lacks the whole scope of political, social and One Power options a sister still possesses. And it isn't as if their war is by any means rational or justified. Aes Sedai are by no means a bunch of Darkfriends, and have contributed a lot more to checking the power of the Shadow. One would think, given how often you bandy "PoV trap" about, you would pay some attention to it here. Just because the Whitecloaks think it is true doesn't make it so, and doesn't make it true.
Did I say it was? Ever? No, because that would be the PoV trap. For all that you claim I bandy it about so much, you plainly still have no idea what that means. The rule of the PoV Trap is that a character's opinion does not make for a fact. Period. It would only apply if I said that the Aes Sedai are Darkfriends, and cited the Children's opinion as evidence. You, on the other hand, do it all the time for Egwene and the Aes Sedai, which is why I have to bandy it around so much. And here we come to another logical fallacy in your arguments - you imply that the frequency of my use of the PoV trap description of another's position somehow invalidates that description. Just because you are tired of me identifying a mistake does not mean I am wrong or that people are not making that mistake. As for the Children, regardless of how wrong they are, it does not change the fact that they act on their beliefs, which is a sort of corollary to the PoV trap. No matter how wrong a character's belief, he or she is as likely to act on it as on a true belief. The Children believe that channeling is evil, and while they might be off base, there are at least valid reasons for entertaining that argument.
Added to this, the fact that Aes Sedai cannot open hostilities against Whitecloaks (and have never shown any inclination to anyway), makes it clear that the advantage is all with the Whitecloaks.
Sammael had no inclination to open hostilities with Rand. Aes Sedai cannot (and will not) even systematically kill any Whitecloak they see against a future chance of assassination, a course which the Whitecloaks themselves seem to consider morally valid, as do you.
And? The fact that their superior position gives them that luxury does not mean they would be wrong to forgo it and proceed with that course of action. They know it would be disastrous for them, and they refrain from prudence. Here is another case of you making the same mistake, and me being forced to correct you on it AGAIN. Once more, you assume only the best possible interpretation for your side, and refuse to acknowledge that real benefits and potential gain or profit that would obviously accrue to your favored characters from their course of action. You demand that their every action which benefits another or refrains from doing the maximum harm be treated as purely altruistic, and refuse to consider the benefits to themselves from acting in this manner.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
The Children of the Light and the White Tower
20/10/2010 08:32:10 PM
- 2361 Views
Re: The Children of the Light and the White Tower
20/10/2010 08:58:12 PM
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The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards.
20/10/2010 09:05:55 PM
- 1143 Views
Re: The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards.
21/10/2010 12:15:48 AM
- 1064 Views
Re: The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards.
21/10/2010 02:59:49 PM
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Re: The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards.
21/10/2010 04:35:00 PM
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And farmers are, of course, treated the same as rebel officers and usurpers and mutineers.
23/10/2010 03:07:10 PM
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Re: The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards.
21/10/2010 07:55:06 PM
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And there is no indication of how far that went.
23/10/2010 03:12:42 PM
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"The question" as opposed to "questioning"
24/10/2010 06:21:43 PM
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And that would indicate everyone does it, if it is so commonly used, so how are the CoL worse? *NM*
25/10/2010 01:14:13 AM
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Re: The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards.
24/10/2010 06:53:19 AM
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The utter stupidity of this statement caught my eye...
24/10/2010 08:12:58 AM
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Your analyses and extension of concepts always brings that "utter stupidity" phrase to my mind.
25/10/2010 02:17:10 AM
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Huh? ... what !! ... are you mad?
21/10/2010 05:05:16 PM
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Did you forget the very first PoV Darkfriend in the series?
23/10/2010 03:27:25 PM
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Difference being the whitecloaks who were ordered to do it were not DFs. All the AS evil deeds
23/10/2010 07:55:23 PM
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So similar scenes in the Cairhienin civil war were all the work of Darkfriends?
25/10/2010 02:25:57 AM
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Please provide an example of a DF AS committing an atrocity and not being punished by the Tower
25/10/2010 03:34:46 AM
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Just one? Here's a list from the top of my head in 60 secs:..
25/10/2010 09:28:10 AM
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Re: Just one? Here's a list from the top of my head in 60 secs:..
25/10/2010 04:14:05 PM
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Not to mention it's not like any of these have been without repercussion!
25/10/2010 04:50:39 PM
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Re: Not to mention it's not like any of these have been without repercussion!
27/10/2010 01:06:53 PM
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You under some delusion that I'm defending the AS
27/10/2010 08:29:14 PM
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No. I'm pointing out you are under the delusion that AS pay for their atrocities.
28/10/2010 09:16:38 AM
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okay, so AS never Still and execute AS for doing stuff ... have you read the series?
28/10/2010 05:20:28 PM
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That doesn't make the -unpunished- atrocities disappear, you know. Your point is lame AND moot.
28/10/2010 07:07:27 PM
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Re: That doesn't make the -unpunished- atrocities disappear, you know. Your point is lame AND moot.
28/10/2010 07:09:33 PM
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To echo Darius...
23/10/2010 08:34:00 PM
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Re: To echo Darius...
25/10/2010 10:03:14 AM
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Go look up the definition of the word atrocity
25/10/2010 04:53:55 PM
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Their implicit role in the genocide of Manetheren was probable their greatest atrocity *NM*
26/10/2010 03:01:01 AM
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You mean the act that got Tetsuan deposed, Stilled and sentenced to hard labor until she gave up the
26/10/2010 04:19:45 AM
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Ya, the ultimated punishment of cleaning pots and floors NOOOOOOOO!!!
26/10/2010 11:59:51 PM
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Maybe you should have done that yourself: "behaviour or an action that is wicked or ruthless"
27/10/2010 11:11:30 AM
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the fact that you can't differentiate between the extermination of an entire village
27/10/2010 08:30:12 PM
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READ; I *did* differentiate between them. It doesn't change the fact all are atrocious deeds
28/10/2010 09:00:56 AM
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28/10/2010 05:22:18 PM
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You asked for atrocities and you got them. Now you just don't know what to do with them.
28/10/2010 06:49:16 PM
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dude, you gave us a list of petty crimes and compared it to mass murder
28/10/2010 06:59:33 PM
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Complete the thought...
28/10/2010 07:11:37 PM
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seems I must do so for this guy to understand ... and I'm not holding my breath on that!
28/10/2010 08:24:57 PM
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Rape, murder, starting wars and doing noting about them, kidnap / severe torture of prisoners... *NM*
28/10/2010 07:51:33 PM
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again you fail to note that the AS have systems in place to prevent these things
28/10/2010 08:23:32 PM
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Again you fail to note that the AS haven't used those "systems" of theirs
28/10/2010 09:02:15 PM
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What wars did they start?
28/10/2010 08:56:46 PM
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You should be an Aes Sedai; the way you can twist truth would scare Siuan.
28/10/2010 09:07:24 PM
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28/10/2010 07:07:57 PM
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Take your own advice, please
28/10/2010 07:30:51 PM
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Come on. Just say it. Real men don't act like catty, bitchy women. *NM*
20/10/2010 11:14:49 PM
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"Rightly hold responsible for the threat of the Shadow?" Puh-leeze
21/10/2010 12:06:34 AM
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Puh-leeze right back at you:
21/10/2010 08:24:12 AM
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The Wheel was created so the DO could break in. The Creator plays his game with the DO thru people
21/10/2010 01:45:07 PM
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It was you who brought up that silly Real World kitchen example, silly.
25/10/2010 10:55:29 AM
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I could say you zinged me, but you're just bent on silliness. Bored now. *NM*
25/10/2010 10:54:41 PM
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Your personal theories do not constitute evidence, and your aberrant logic better supports MY case
21/10/2010 03:21:44 PM
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Objection, your honor! Bringing evidentiary rules into this is asinine! *NM*
21/10/2010 11:22:19 PM
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The word "evidence" is not exclusive to the practice of jurisprudence
23/10/2010 03:31:57 PM
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Rational thinking. Well, you use the word "deserved" in all caps. Nuff said. *NM*
23/10/2010 04:55:02 PM
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Emphasis means nothing one way or another as far as rationality goes, which you would know...
25/10/2010 01:13:23 AM
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You know zilch about my acquaintances. "mk" was wrong - you're not an idiot. But you are ignorable. *NM*
25/10/2010 10:57:04 PM
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21/10/2010 01:47:19 AM
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Not so sure about that
21/10/2010 02:29:02 AM
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the city is closed to WC
21/10/2010 04:01:45 AM
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Re: the city is closed to WC
21/10/2010 04:55:45 AM
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But that is irrelevant. Aes Sedai can also go to Amadicia in disguise. *NM*
21/10/2010 05:35:18 AM
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But they aren't in disguise
21/10/2010 08:31:38 AM
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They don't wear their uniform, their one identifying feature. That is a disguise.
21/10/2010 09:08:25 PM
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Re: They don't wear their uniform, their one identifying feature. That is a disguise.
22/10/2010 02:10:07 PM
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CotL are welcome in Tar Valon to have a drink. Aes Sedai are hanged when found in Amadicia..
21/10/2010 08:33:03 AM
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Now hang on a minute!
21/10/2010 07:28:45 AM
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Re: Now hang on a minute!
21/10/2010 10:49:34 AM
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it would be an interesting comparison if they weren't completely different organizations
21/10/2010 04:09:31 PM
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