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I do think Ishamel is special Sidious Send a noteboard - 14/09/2009 07:04:03 PM
Demandred, Lanfear, Semirhage, Graendal and Sammael could probably duel one another with unpredictable results, and the result would be 50-50 if they dueled a hundred times. It makes them inferior to Ishamael and Lews Therin, but not to each other.


If Ishamael is superior to the others, I just haven't seen it. The only time he's gained any real advantages has been after Moghedien and Cyndane were mindtrapped and given to him, and that was after he had suffered multiple defeats and been given a new body.

If it came down to an outright fight, and the Dark One commanded them to fight one another to the death using any means necessary, I tend to think Ishamael would be one of the first eliminated - the only thing that seems to keep him from being wiped out is the uneasy amnesty that exists among the Forsaken for most of the series - he shows himself incapable of grasping basic experiences that the others understand very well, most probably because he is partially insane and because of his use of the True Power, probably worse off than many of the male channelers running around insane.

He just never struck me as a legitimate threat in the way Lanfear, Graendal, Sammael, semirhage or Demandred have. Ishamael seems to have suffered the most from the "BS degree in Evil Villainy 101" syndrome.

In fact, I think that there were many Aes Sedai during the Age of Legends who were equal to Lews Therin, all things considered, including Latra Posae Decume - we know Lews Therin's weak points probably better than any channelers at this point, not counting my personal feelings that he is especially attuned to Air, Fire and Spirit with weakness abilities with Water and Earth. He seems to balance quite well with the Forsaken, who were his peers, and channelers of his own comparable potential in terms of capability to channel greater volumes of the Power next to their various skillsets.


I don't really agree with you. I do agree with you that Ishamael has not produced the goods, but I think he is undoubtedly meant to be Rand's counterpart in the Shadow. The series is totally saturated with quotes about his unparalleled power in the Shadow. In fact, if there is anyone we can be sure of, it should be him.

The Guide mentions him as the undoubted top captain general of the Shadow, and probably the first man to turn to the Dark One. He dueled Lews Therin in one of the few known duels of the War of Power in front of the biggest city in the world. He's fought Rand three times, and died, and become the Nae'blis. He commands the other Forsaken. Everything about him suggests that there is something just one step above the others.

As for Lews Therin, I think he was equalled as an allround channeler by only a few people. Mesaana's quote that Demandred would be the undoubted best man of the Age if not for Lews Therin is quite a strong statement, and even Lanfear says that Lews Therin could equal any Aes Sedai in power. He was not strong in everything, much like Rand, but he could perform many feats which other Aes Sedai could not, and he was a masterful channeler to the point that he was chosen to be the highest member of the Hall.
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The top 6 Forsaken - similar in the One Power - 12/09/2009 09:27:20 PM 1940 Views
Some thoughts about Semmy - 12/09/2009 09:59:50 PM 1110 Views
Re: Some thoughts about Semmy - 13/09/2009 08:33:28 AM 1186 Views
Of course... - 13/09/2009 08:36:39 AM 978 Views
I've been thinking the same for years - 12/09/2009 11:25:02 PM 1101 Views
The Big White Book says... - 12/09/2009 11:46:43 PM 1164 Views
Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 08:36:37 AM 1162 Views
Re: Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 03:16:13 PM 1068 Views
Re: Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 05:47:14 PM 1112 Views
Fact is, the bwb is untrustworthy - 13/09/2009 05:54:28 PM 1030 Views
We must either use all the quotes from the BWB or none of them - 13/09/2009 06:07:46 PM 1067 Views
Or... - 13/09/2009 08:41:23 PM 1006 Views
Re: Or... - 14/09/2009 04:46:52 AM 988 Views
But, RJ himself said that the BWB was written from the standpoint of a scholar - 14/09/2009 04:42:59 PM 1056 Views
Re: Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 08:17:28 PM 979 Views
It all depends on how you define "powerful" - 14/09/2009 02:30:31 AM 1087 Views
I agree 101%. *NM* - 14/09/2009 03:49:51 AM 539 Views
I think power is much more than raw strength - 14/09/2009 05:00:10 AM 992 Views
I agree for the most part, but disagree on one thing. - 14/09/2009 07:52:10 PM 1159 Views
Re: The top 6 Forsaken - similar in the One Power - 12/09/2009 11:48:03 PM 1014 Views
the other reason - 13/09/2009 03:24:24 PM 937 Views
So is graendal similar to lanfear then? - 13/09/2009 05:41:42 PM 951 Views
Graendal could fight Lanfear and win - 13/09/2009 06:01:57 PM 1518 Views
Graendal herself says... - 13/09/2009 09:08:46 PM 980 Views
Re: Graendal herself says... - 14/09/2009 04:48:37 AM 1027 Views
Doesn't Graendal have an Angreal now? - 17/09/2009 03:29:10 AM 1062 Views
Re: Graendal herself says... - 15/09/2009 05:36:53 PM 910 Views
Lanfear was more powerful than Graendal, but Cyndane has less power - 13/09/2009 10:19:35 PM 969 Views
Re: So is graendal similar to lanfear then? - 13/09/2009 06:05:11 PM 1135 Views
I agree with this - 13/09/2009 06:15:24 PM 1121 Views
Compulsion=any other deadly weave. Doesn't really change matters - 13/09/2009 10:23:40 PM 1005 Views
Excellent point *NM* - 13/09/2009 10:35:08 PM 551 Views
But it did give her an edge, and against two forsaken. *NM* - 13/09/2009 11:12:09 PM 517 Views
Hm? When? *NM* - 14/09/2009 09:04:10 PM 456 Views
tPoD, when she compelled Cyndane and Moghedien. *NM* - 14/09/2009 10:19:23 PM 496 Views
Not at all - 14/09/2009 04:51:48 AM 1053 Views
Using Compulsion on someone doesn't seem mechanically different - 14/09/2009 09:03:41 PM 899 Views
I'm not so sure about that - 14/09/2009 09:36:45 PM 984 Views
Totally agree - 14/09/2009 10:26:07 PM 830 Views
I don't agree. - 15/09/2009 04:33:04 PM 1116 Views
Re: So is graendal similar to lanfear then? - 14/09/2009 04:34:24 PM 933 Views
But Graendal confronted her... twice! *NM* - 13/09/2009 07:48:29 PM 467 Views
Apparently only the third time counts *NM* - 13/09/2009 08:00:37 PM 515 Views
Really? - 13/09/2009 08:36:33 PM 977 Views
No falsely... - 13/09/2009 11:25:40 PM 1195 Views
That's pretty much my opinion in a nutshell - 14/09/2009 04:56:15 AM 1155 Views
And, of course, the male and female OP strength ranks might not even correlate that much - 14/09/2009 04:41:58 PM 916 Views
They correlate on some critical points - 14/09/2009 06:57:43 PM 1117 Views
That's not exactly what I'm referring to. - 15/09/2009 04:36:29 PM 875 Views
But then we are discussing the same thing - 15/09/2009 06:59:04 PM 1004 Views
I think, outside of semantics, our main disagreement doesn't lie amid the higher tiers - 16/09/2009 03:53:09 PM 877 Views
Probably - 16/09/2009 06:31:27 PM 1023 Views
Re: Probably - 16/09/2009 07:19:03 PM 990 Views
Re: Probably - 16/09/2009 08:59:31 PM 986 Views
Re: Probably - 18/09/2009 07:03:09 PM 1312 Views
Ahh the old debate... - 17/09/2009 12:42:36 AM 955 Views
Re: Ahh the old debate... - 17/09/2009 05:26:52 AM 916 Views
I only disagree on one point, I think they are all rather equal in potential, incl. Ishamael - 14/09/2009 04:28:12 PM 1010 Views
I do think Ishamel is special - 14/09/2009 07:04:03 PM 1088 Views
He's special the same way any individual is special. - 14/09/2009 11:36:42 PM 1041 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 08:36:20 AM 999 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 03:48:34 PM 989 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 04:39:39 PM 983 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 04:53:00 PM 973 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 06:47:45 PM 1014 Views
The more interesting question is... - 14/09/2009 06:34:11 PM 903 Views
Hmmm - 14/09/2009 07:04:34 PM 994 Views
I think we'll see Graendal vs. Aran'gar. - 14/09/2009 07:31:16 PM 1028 Views
Ah yes, that makes sense, and would be great! *NM* - 14/09/2009 07:40:29 PM 857 Views
Yeah. Though I think its no competition. Graendal has got to be better than a walking tree! - 14/09/2009 07:50:09 PM 905 Views
They do imply that Graendal is a lot more dangerous than she looks - 14/09/2009 09:08:43 PM 936 Views
I've never underestimated Graendal - 14/09/2009 09:42:49 PM 983 Views
Yeah... her frivolity was always a red flag for me too. - 14/09/2009 10:18:40 PM 1020 Views
To me, she is the most lethal. - 15/09/2009 05:18:10 PM 767 Views
Yup... - 15/09/2009 06:39:20 PM 821 Views
I still like Lanfear more - 15/09/2009 06:51:03 PM 912 Views
Bah! She's an idiot! - 15/09/2009 07:06:06 PM 925 Views
only in love *NM* - 15/09/2009 07:23:29 PM 880 Views
Graendal did not beat me and Moghedien - 15/09/2009 05:59:39 PM 1015 Views
Agreed - 15/09/2009 06:36:48 PM 903 Views
Ummm... how do we know? - 15/09/2009 06:40:57 PM 1039 Views
Re: Ummm... how do we know? - 15/09/2009 06:56:21 PM 942 Views
Hmmm... - 15/09/2009 07:07:45 PM 1139 Views

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