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I agree for the most part, but disagree on one thing. Lanfear Send a noteboard - 14/09/2009 07:52:10 PM
If raw strength in the power is considered, then Aginor is second to Ishamael. But as you've pointed out, Aginor was a sniveling little weasle with no skill. Without skill, Aginor's superior strength means little which is why that loser grovels before Demandred and many of the rest.

Aginor knows he has less skill as a weaver than the other chosen and he lacks the combat instincts that are crucial (see Demandred's ability to immediately ascertain what he is up against at the end of Winter's Heart compared to the other chosen's reactions) to one power duel. Aginor can channel more of the power than anyone except Ishamael, but Aginor's below average skill and battle prowess make him less of a threat than others like Demandred who might be able to channel slightly less power, but more than make up for it with superior skill and instincts.

It looks to me like you've defined powerful as a mixture of raw one power channeling ability, plus skill/dexterity, plus battle instincts. With that many factors to look at, Robert Jordan hasn't given enough information to make certain conclusions.

But just between you and me, Sidious, I'm the second most powerful!



You're totally right that Aginor was probably second in strength. However, when RJ made his point about strength vs skill by using Alivia and Cyndane, and directly telling us about it in his blog, it was convincing evidence that a channeler's skills and knowledge can bridge vast gaps in strength. RJ went as far to say that Alivia was 'much stronger' than Cyndane in that battle, but that skill and knowledge evened it out. Thus when channelers like Graendal or Semirhage duel, it is likely that they can bridge almost any strength gap, if there is one. It's not like there's much to bridge... any of the Forsaken are close to the highest strength possible in saidin or saidar.


Graendal or Semirhage could bridge a strength gap, as long as the person they are up against has less than average skill or less than average battle prowess/instincts. For example, if Graendal or Semirhage fight me, I'd kill them.

Moghedien and I didn't fight back against Graendal last time b/c we were ordered not to by Shaidar Haran and Moridin. If I wanted to, I would have kicked Graendal's arse.



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The top 6 Forsaken - similar in the One Power - 12/09/2009 09:27:20 PM 1888 Views
Some thoughts about Semmy - 12/09/2009 09:59:50 PM 1063 Views
Re: Some thoughts about Semmy - 13/09/2009 08:33:28 AM 1131 Views
Of course... - 13/09/2009 08:36:39 AM 923 Views
I've been thinking the same for years - 12/09/2009 11:25:02 PM 1041 Views
The Big White Book says... - 12/09/2009 11:46:43 PM 1105 Views
Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 08:36:37 AM 1112 Views
Re: Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 03:16:13 PM 1021 Views
Re: Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 05:47:14 PM 1062 Views
Fact is, the bwb is untrustworthy - 13/09/2009 05:54:28 PM 979 Views
We must either use all the quotes from the BWB or none of them - 13/09/2009 06:07:46 PM 1013 Views
Or... - 13/09/2009 08:41:23 PM 960 Views
Re: Or... - 14/09/2009 04:46:52 AM 922 Views
But, RJ himself said that the BWB was written from the standpoint of a scholar - 14/09/2009 04:42:59 PM 1007 Views
Re: Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 08:17:28 PM 925 Views
It all depends on how you define "powerful" - 14/09/2009 02:30:31 AM 1030 Views
I agree 101%. *NM* - 14/09/2009 03:49:51 AM 518 Views
I think power is much more than raw strength - 14/09/2009 05:00:10 AM 937 Views
I agree for the most part, but disagree on one thing. - 14/09/2009 07:52:10 PM 1098 Views
Re: The top 6 Forsaken - similar in the One Power - 12/09/2009 11:48:03 PM 969 Views
the other reason - 13/09/2009 03:24:24 PM 892 Views
So is graendal similar to lanfear then? - 13/09/2009 05:41:42 PM 895 Views
Graendal could fight Lanfear and win - 13/09/2009 06:01:57 PM 1480 Views
Graendal herself says... - 13/09/2009 09:08:46 PM 923 Views
Re: Graendal herself says... - 14/09/2009 04:48:37 AM 983 Views
Doesn't Graendal have an Angreal now? - 17/09/2009 03:29:10 AM 999 Views
Re: Graendal herself says... - 15/09/2009 05:36:53 PM 863 Views
Lanfear was more powerful than Graendal, but Cyndane has less power - 13/09/2009 10:19:35 PM 925 Views
Re: So is graendal similar to lanfear then? - 13/09/2009 06:05:11 PM 1084 Views
I agree with this - 13/09/2009 06:15:24 PM 1077 Views
Compulsion=any other deadly weave. Doesn't really change matters - 13/09/2009 10:23:40 PM 951 Views
Excellent point *NM* - 13/09/2009 10:35:08 PM 528 Views
But it did give her an edge, and against two forsaken. *NM* - 13/09/2009 11:12:09 PM 494 Views
Hm? When? *NM* - 14/09/2009 09:04:10 PM 432 Views
tPoD, when she compelled Cyndane and Moghedien. *NM* - 14/09/2009 10:19:23 PM 470 Views
Not at all - 14/09/2009 04:51:48 AM 999 Views
Using Compulsion on someone doesn't seem mechanically different - 14/09/2009 09:03:41 PM 852 Views
I'm not so sure about that - 14/09/2009 09:36:45 PM 933 Views
Totally agree - 14/09/2009 10:26:07 PM 790 Views
I don't agree. - 15/09/2009 04:33:04 PM 1060 Views
Re: So is graendal similar to lanfear then? - 14/09/2009 04:34:24 PM 884 Views
But Graendal confronted her... twice! *NM* - 13/09/2009 07:48:29 PM 445 Views
Apparently only the third time counts *NM* - 13/09/2009 08:00:37 PM 486 Views
Really? - 13/09/2009 08:36:33 PM 923 Views
No falsely... - 13/09/2009 11:25:40 PM 1144 Views
That's pretty much my opinion in a nutshell - 14/09/2009 04:56:15 AM 1103 Views
And, of course, the male and female OP strength ranks might not even correlate that much - 14/09/2009 04:41:58 PM 859 Views
They correlate on some critical points - 14/09/2009 06:57:43 PM 1062 Views
That's not exactly what I'm referring to. - 15/09/2009 04:36:29 PM 814 Views
But then we are discussing the same thing - 15/09/2009 06:59:04 PM 948 Views
I think, outside of semantics, our main disagreement doesn't lie amid the higher tiers - 16/09/2009 03:53:09 PM 822 Views
Probably - 16/09/2009 06:31:27 PM 966 Views
Re: Probably - 16/09/2009 07:19:03 PM 938 Views
Re: Probably - 16/09/2009 08:59:31 PM 924 Views
Re: Probably - 18/09/2009 07:03:09 PM 1267 Views
Ahh the old debate... - 17/09/2009 12:42:36 AM 902 Views
Re: Ahh the old debate... - 17/09/2009 05:26:52 AM 871 Views
I only disagree on one point, I think they are all rather equal in potential, incl. Ishamael - 14/09/2009 04:28:12 PM 954 Views
I do think Ishamel is special - 14/09/2009 07:04:03 PM 1029 Views
He's special the same way any individual is special. - 14/09/2009 11:36:42 PM 991 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 08:36:20 AM 958 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 03:48:34 PM 942 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 04:39:39 PM 910 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 04:53:00 PM 920 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 06:47:45 PM 965 Views
The more interesting question is... - 14/09/2009 06:34:11 PM 854 Views
Hmmm - 14/09/2009 07:04:34 PM 946 Views
I think we'll see Graendal vs. Aran'gar. - 14/09/2009 07:31:16 PM 975 Views
Ah yes, that makes sense, and would be great! *NM* - 14/09/2009 07:40:29 PM 792 Views
Yeah. Though I think its no competition. Graendal has got to be better than a walking tree! - 14/09/2009 07:50:09 PM 852 Views
They do imply that Graendal is a lot more dangerous than she looks - 14/09/2009 09:08:43 PM 880 Views
I've never underestimated Graendal - 14/09/2009 09:42:49 PM 933 Views
Yeah... her frivolity was always a red flag for me too. - 14/09/2009 10:18:40 PM 974 Views
To me, she is the most lethal. - 15/09/2009 05:18:10 PM 722 Views
Yup... - 15/09/2009 06:39:20 PM 776 Views
I still like Lanfear more - 15/09/2009 06:51:03 PM 865 Views
Bah! She's an idiot! - 15/09/2009 07:06:06 PM 872 Views
only in love *NM* - 15/09/2009 07:23:29 PM 826 Views
Graendal did not beat me and Moghedien - 15/09/2009 05:59:39 PM 966 Views
Agreed - 15/09/2009 06:36:48 PM 853 Views
Ummm... how do we know? - 15/09/2009 06:40:57 PM 989 Views
Re: Ummm... how do we know? - 15/09/2009 06:56:21 PM 901 Views
Hmmm... - 15/09/2009 07:07:45 PM 1098 Views

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