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They are the same thing. The remnant of a remnant are Aiel darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 10/04/2012 05:04:55 AM
i think the Aiel who will survive as the remnant will be those that accept the true heritage of the Aiel.


Nobody has argued against that possibility. As I discussed with DomA, it is in fact most probable that it will play a significant part.

The issue, if you will recall, is that I claimed that the fact that the Aiel were not destroyed in Aviendha's vision meant that it was impossible according to more reliable prophecies. You claimed that alternate definitions of the Aiel could render this possible.

Since then, I've been trying to get you to provide a definition of the Aiel that makes this possible. But you haven't. Every time it comes down to it, you are redefining the "remnant of a remnant", not the "Aiel".

The prophecy contains two parts: A remnant of a remnant of those who call themselves Aiel will be destroyed, and the rest of them will be destroyed. If you can redefine Aiel in a way that is both consistent with Aviendha's vision and with both parts of this prophecy, feel free to do so.


Aviendah's vision does not define ALL the Aiel. In fact, her vision lays out a possibility of how the rest of the Aiel meet their end. There is no reason to believe that there were ther groups of Aiel who were not destroyed by the Seanchan ... Those who may well have gone to the Tuatha'an could very well have embraced the Way and still survive. Deny the Tuatha'an as part of the Aiel if it suits you, but the fact remains we know that they are related to them. Just because they no longer claim the name Aiel, does not mean they are not Aiel. May as well say a lion living in the zoo is no longer a lion because it's not in Africa.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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Aviendha, the columns, and the Seanchan DoraSedai - 03/04/2012 04:29:31 PM 2253 Views
The entire point, I believe, is to give Avienda the opportunity to change that future LadyLorraine - 03/04/2012 05:13:48 PM 1633 Views
As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. Fanatic-Templar - 03/04/2012 07:30:52 PM 1263 Views
Depends on how one defines Aiel darius_sedai - 04/04/2012 04:11:11 AM 1228 Views
There are more than there were before. Fanatic-Templar - 04/04/2012 07:03:27 AM 1217 Views
But when the prophesy was made there many followers darius_sedai - 04/04/2012 10:10:54 AM 1158 Views
The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. Fanatic-Templar - 04/04/2012 06:28:47 PM 1242 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. DomA - 05/04/2012 01:41:23 AM 1507 Views
Well that more than covers it *NM* darius_sedai - 05/04/2012 04:43:53 AM 608 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. Fanatic-Templar - 05/04/2012 07:39:04 AM 1308 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. DomA - 05/04/2012 02:14:37 PM 1664 Views
For the record I agree that the visions are not true either darius_sedai - 05/04/2012 02:25:47 PM 1202 Views
Re: For the record I agree that the visions are not true either DomA - 05/04/2012 11:36:53 PM 1189 Views
Yes, I was thinking of the Aiel's suicidal traditions as well. Fanatic-Templar - 05/04/2012 06:24:56 PM 1134 Views
Re: Yes, I was thinking of the Aiel's suicidal traditions as well. DomA - 06/04/2012 12:20:31 AM 1330 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. DoraSedai - 06/04/2012 10:51:00 PM 1257 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. DoraSedai - 06/04/2012 10:38:24 PM 1471 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. Fanatic-Templar - 07/04/2012 06:27:27 AM 1176 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. darius_sedai - 07/04/2012 07:23:03 PM 1088 Views
So what you're saying... Fanatic-Templar - 07/04/2012 10:07:59 PM 1017 Views
What I am saying is that it's not a "pure bloodline" that makes one an Aiel darius_sedai - 08/04/2012 12:16:10 AM 1138 Views
I never said it was. Fanatic-Templar - 08/04/2012 12:43:26 AM 1242 Views
Actually you did In your above post you speak of the Tinkers as not Aiel because they have been darius_sedai - 08/04/2012 06:09:01 AM 1171 Views
No... Fanatic-Templar - 08/04/2012 07:12:22 AM 1273 Views
You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc darius_sedai - 08/04/2012 05:16:54 PM 1263 Views
Re: You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc Fanatic-Templar - 08/04/2012 06:43:27 PM 1264 Views
Re: You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc rosco12 - 08/04/2012 07:52:10 PM 1058 Views
Thanks for that. Fanatic-Templar - 09/04/2012 02:38:25 AM 940 Views
Red hair is double recessive ... Doesn't take much to eliminate it from the gene pool. There could darius_sedai - 08/04/2012 11:22:36 PM 1165 Views
You are consistently making the same mistake. Fanatic-Templar - 09/04/2012 02:45:46 AM 1051 Views
They are the same thing. The remnant of a remnant are Aiel darius_sedai - 10/04/2012 05:04:55 AM 1205 Views
No. They are not. Fanatic-Templar - 10/04/2012 05:42:29 AM 1073 Views
Never said the remnant of the remnant was the whole of the Aiel darius_sedai - 10/04/2012 05:45:47 PM 1076 Views
You said that redefining the Aiel would allow Aviendha's vision to be possible. Fanatic-Templar - 10/04/2012 06:53:51 PM 1271 Views
No , I said there were many ways to interpret the statement based on how one defines Aiel darius_sedai - 10/04/2012 07:36:11 PM 1015 Views
All of which is entirely irrelevant. Fanatic-Templar - 10/04/2012 07:38:29 PM 1064 Views
Actually it states he will save a remnant of a remnant darius_sedai - 10/04/2012 07:47:04 PM 1103 Views
Re: Actually it states he will save a remnant of a remnant Fanatic-Templar - 11/04/2012 01:40:36 AM 1120 Views
That is what I just said darius_sedai - 14/04/2012 01:41:56 AM 1084 Views
What is important about that? Fanatic-Templar - 14/04/2012 04:35:55 AM 1047 Views
The importance is that the prophesy says that Rand darius_sedai - 14/04/2012 06:06:31 PM 1215 Views
So what you're saying is... Fanatic-Templar - 14/04/2012 09:45:36 PM 1118 Views
That's exactly it darius_sedai - 14/04/2012 11:21:25 PM 1170 Views
Good. Fanatic-Templar - 15/04/2012 02:01:14 AM 1189 Views
He sets it in motion, thus his actions lead to it darius_sedai - 15/04/2012 02:55:13 PM 1066 Views
Yes, but in that case, he is responsible for everything, ever. Fanatic-Templar - 15/04/2012 05:29:31 PM 1125 Views
We are interpreting Prophesy here ... Direct v. Indirect actions are what we are discussing darius_sedai - 15/04/2012 07:21:29 PM 1095 Views
Re: We are interpreting Prophesy here ... Direct v. Indirect actions are what we are discussing DomA - 17/04/2012 04:18:32 AM 1288 Views
Depends on how you look at the Prophesy darius_sedai - 18/04/2012 01:45:23 PM 1005 Views
Of course, but the point of my example was... Fanatic-Templar - 17/04/2012 06:08:09 PM 1052 Views
Where are you getting this happens over thousands of years? darius_sedai - 18/04/2012 01:47:42 PM 984 Views
Because that was the important part of that post. Fanatic-Templar - 18/04/2012 05:28:10 PM 1170 Views
Don't know when this became about winning darius_sedai - 19/04/2012 02:08:16 AM 944 Views
Re: I never said it was. DoraSedai - 18/04/2012 12:37:23 AM 1232 Views
Re: As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. DomA - 04/04/2012 07:16:13 AM 1282 Views
Re: As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. DoraSedai - 06/04/2012 10:33:00 PM 1169 Views
Thank you for that analysis. *NM* JasonD - 17/04/2012 12:36:08 AM 582 Views
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