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Re: Not sure that's completely true.. fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 27/09/2012 03:17:00 AM
I still find far more likely she's referring to information she got from her own BA. Moghedien in book 4 showed a disctinct lack of knowledge and interest in what didn't concern her little domain in the south. She didn't even know Rand's name.

Beside, as we know Moghedien is still running those BA. She had no need to go to the Tower to get Alviarin to tell her what one of her own pet BA could tell her. Notice she doesn't even wonder if Hessalam could be Sharina. She simply has no idea Sharina exists. She must have thought an instant Hessalam was BA - perhaps even that she was their leader or something.

Fair enough.
I don't think the new scene tells us much about strength, but I get the feeling Moghedien was probably always underestimated because of her personality.

What the Prologue did is confirm that for us.
I don't think she's much weaker than the others, probably just by something like the difference between book 4 Nynaeve and Nynaeve at full potential. I think Nynaeve at full potential is probably in the range of the levels on which Graendal, Semiraghe, Mesaana stand. She could be on a level lower for instance, or at the lower threshold of the same level, or their equal more or less. I get the feeling all those women are distributed on few levels, a few below Lanfear.

Yup. Nynaeve is as strong as Semirhage, it seems (from Brandon), and maybe a little stronger. Mesaana is weaker than Semi and Graendal may be slightly weaker or slightly stronger. All said, these women are all very close to Lanfear's strength, much as Aginor, Demandred and Sammael were close to LTT's strength.

It could be significant, but in that range it's far more the combination of knowledge, training, experience, Talents and skills that would set these women apart than raw strength, and in combat it's only if they find themselves in a head-to-head confrontation strength could be a determining factor. I think only Lanfear/Cyndane has a clear raw strength advantage over the other women - which is useful only in some situtations, and even then they're all strong enough they'd probably dare attack her if they had a plan they believe would neutralize her strength advantage.. Graendal did... with a small angreal and her most potent weave she took Moghedien and Cyndane face on, both at once.

I think the difference between Lanfear and the next strongest female Foresaken is no different than that between Demandred and Ishamael. Which is to say, a definite difference, but not significant enough to give any guarantee in a battle. And this translates across gender lines.
Moghedien simply overcame most of her complex of inferiority since the Cleansing. The fact she was in disgrace and humilitated still made her feel inferior to the others, but now that Graendal's joined the club Moghedien realized Graendal no longer intimidates her at all and she dared laughed at her openly. What the scene tells us about their respective strengths is more or less only that Moghedien's not weaker nearly enough to stop her from provoking Graendal. It was more a matter of complex of inferiority and lack of self-confidence that made her stood aside to an extent, made her avoid being openly challenging because she feared confronting them openly. Not anymore, not for Graendal anyway. She already seemed not to fear Cyndane much.

Yup.
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AMOL Prologue : Analysis of Forsaken section *major spoilers* - 19/09/2012 05:47:21 PM 3379 Views
You left out that Taim and Demandred have met before. - 19/09/2012 06:19:01 PM 1610 Views
Part of me keeps screaming Logain, though that can't be right... - 20/09/2012 12:14:00 PM 1556 Views
I thought of Logain as well... - 20/09/2012 06:10:58 PM 1430 Views
We have our answer as to why Cyndane and Moiraine are reduced in power. - 20/09/2012 05:14:01 AM 1525 Views
It was spelled out before. - 20/09/2012 05:25:05 AM 1366 Views
And some of us guessed that's what happened, we just didn't have evidence. *NM* - 20/09/2012 12:04:18 PM 795 Views
Nor a lot of support for the idea... - 22/09/2012 06:28:14 PM 1358 Views
Really? Seemed like the obvious series of events - 23/09/2012 02:32:35 PM 1320 Views
I know... - 23/09/2012 05:30:42 PM 1367 Views
I'm not so sure - 24/09/2012 05:32:50 PM 1352 Views
Why question it? - 25/09/2012 01:40:39 AM 1205 Views
Re: Why question it? - 25/09/2012 06:12:32 AM 1193 Views
Six Chosen... - 20/09/2012 05:19:17 AM 1532 Views
It's fan fiction, but it's cannon fan fiction - 20/09/2012 06:55:18 AM 1578 Views
Demandred - the wasted Forsaken - 20/09/2012 08:14:15 PM 1415 Views
RJ's writing was bad. Sanderson's is far worse. *NM* - 21/09/2012 06:19:04 AM 784 Views
Re: Demandred - the wasted Forsaken - 22/09/2012 07:23:19 PM 1297 Views
Talmanes - 23/09/2012 12:42:27 AM 1733 Views
Re: Talmanes - 02/10/2012 03:27:05 PM 1143 Views
Two interesting Forsaken issues you haven't raised - 22/09/2012 06:21:34 PM 1540 Views
Seems to me that Taim himself was behind going to Rand - 23/09/2012 02:53:32 AM 1366 Views
Re: Seems to me that Taim himself was behind going to Rand - 23/09/2012 05:50:48 PM 1348 Views
I think I rebel against this thought process because of the Taimandred Red Herring - 23/09/2012 06:35:19 PM 1285 Views
Re: I think I rebel against this thought process because of the Taimandred Red Herring - 23/09/2012 07:46:59 PM 1478 Views
The first time we hear about Transmigration is in LOC - 23/09/2012 08:50:10 PM 1458 Views
Why was Ishamael reinstantiated as Nae'blis after his death? - 02/10/2012 10:17:03 PM 1328 Views
I have to wonder at Hessalam - 23/09/2012 01:20:13 PM 1516 Views
Re: I have to wonder at Hessalam - 23/09/2012 06:52:10 PM 1588 Views
Re: I have to wonder at Hessalam - 24/09/2012 05:18:29 PM 1714 Views
I don't think she's old. Just really really really ugly! - 25/09/2012 03:22:56 AM 1197 Views
Re: I don't think she's old. Just really really really ugly! - 25/09/2012 06:13:51 AM 1263 Views
So based on this new info, what is Demandred's big game? Shara or Isle of Madmen back on the table? - 23/09/2012 08:01:03 PM 1336 Views
Re: So based on this new info, what is Demandred's big game? - 23/09/2012 08:52:48 PM 1421 Views
Interesting... - 23/09/2012 09:06:18 PM 1212 Views
Re: Interesting... - 23/09/2012 11:31:31 PM 1452 Views
Just one comment.. - 23/09/2012 11:53:09 PM 1920 Views
If I had to take a guess right now I'd say he has been setting up various Shadow armies thought the - 23/09/2012 09:30:34 PM 1262 Views
I think at the very least he has recreated the One-and-Eighty male channelers from the AOL... - 23/09/2012 09:34:56 PM 1331 Views
As I said he will almost certainly have Channelers - 23/09/2012 09:47:53 PM 1512 Views
All he needed to do was train 10 guys personally.. - 23/09/2012 09:51:46 PM 1147 Views
It took Taim nearly a year to train a dozen men to a place where they could teach - 23/09/2012 10:00:40 PM 1145 Views
The world is 25,000 miles by 25,000 miles in size... - 23/09/2012 10:15:22 PM 1236 Views
That is just far fetched ... I think I would laugh out loud if that is the case - 23/09/2012 10:43:37 PM 1252 Views
Direct quote from Demandred refutes this... - 23/09/2012 10:49:10 PM 1236 Views
Demanded is much more like Mesaana in his ways - 23/09/2012 10:55:00 PM 1219 Views
Re: Demanded is much more like Mesaana in his ways - 23/09/2012 11:36:54 PM 1267 Views
Not really - 24/09/2012 12:31:48 AM 1282 Views
"My rule is secure." Could Demandred be ruling an entire Mirror World? - 23/09/2012 10:43:51 PM 1317 Views
I can certainly something like this happening - 23/09/2012 10:50:35 PM 1123 Views
I'm not sure it's possible... - 24/09/2012 03:02:26 AM 1286 Views
I think ... - 24/09/2012 05:36:38 PM 1223 Views
The changes in Moghedien - 25/09/2012 03:29:15 AM 1103 Views
I believe she commented on Graendal's strength, comparing it to Nynaeve or something? - 25/09/2012 11:07:24 PM 1250 Views
Well.. - 25/09/2012 11:15:21 PM 1128 Views
Thanks for the quote, but reading that, it kind of implies the opposite, to me... - 25/09/2012 11:35:53 PM 1435 Views
Hmmm.... - 26/09/2012 12:00:33 AM 1167 Views
Hehe, that old argument again. - 26/09/2012 12:09:25 AM 1094 Views
Yes. - 26/09/2012 12:58:03 AM 1059 Views
I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength - 26/09/2012 04:11:16 AM 1211 Views
Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength - 26/09/2012 08:53:02 AM 1126 Views
Well... - 26/09/2012 09:09:38 AM 1087 Views
Re: Well... - 26/09/2012 10:17:03 AM 1238 Views
Nice speculation. I like that type of calculation. - 26/09/2012 10:59:43 AM 1187 Views
Re: Well... - 27/09/2012 03:12:06 AM 1118 Views
Re: Well... - 27/09/2012 08:17:07 AM 1078 Views
Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength - 27/09/2012 03:00:04 AM 1152 Views
Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength - 27/09/2012 07:23:11 AM 1158 Views
Actually...... - 26/09/2012 02:30:00 AM 1241 Views
Agree with this.. - 26/09/2012 06:12:34 AM 1031 Views
Not sure that's completely true.. - 26/09/2012 06:42:51 AM 1090 Views
Re: Not sure that's completely true.. - 26/09/2012 03:02:41 PM 1263 Views
This is what I've been saying for years! - 26/09/2012 05:48:01 PM 964 Views
Re: Not sure that's completely true.. - 27/09/2012 03:17:00 AM 1144 Views
Probably something like this - 26/09/2012 08:36:40 AM 1195 Views
Probably true, but maybe a hint from a Sanderson interview should be considered here... - 26/09/2012 08:56:32 AM 1138 Views
Re: Probably true, but maybe a hint from a Sanderson interview should be considered here... - 26/09/2012 10:01:08 AM 1062 Views
Graendal almost has to be Stronger than Nynaeve - 26/09/2012 05:57:35 PM 1298 Views
One thing about that... - 27/09/2012 02:58:56 AM 1176 Views
Possible, but I find it unlikely - 27/09/2012 06:16:56 AM 1079 Views
The reason I think that... - 27/09/2012 06:25:48 AM 1151 Views
I always assumed Nynaeve at the top was a list he later revised as he decided to bring in - 27/09/2012 06:39:35 AM 1210 Views
Of course that's the correct answer, yes. - 27/09/2012 08:12:45 AM 1267 Views
I wasn't making a Strength comparison ... I was commenting on her lack of cowardice - 26/09/2012 03:45:36 AM 1150 Views
Re: I wasn't making a Strength comparison ... I was commenting on her lack of cowardice - 26/09/2012 05:30:36 PM 1270 Views
That is the question I was getting at - 26/09/2012 06:00:03 PM 1194 Views
Re: That is the question I was getting at - 26/09/2012 07:01:34 PM 1231 Views

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