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The damn Oath Rod! Datakim Send a noteboard - 12/12/2009 01:32:47 AM
So, did you also figure out who killed Asmo while you were at it? :P


It was obviously Verin! She hoped that he would know a way around the oaths but got impatient and accidentally killed him! Poor Verin, if only she had been a bit more patient.


As you point out here, all the BA, (including Verin), should know that the OR can remove as well as place oaths. (That the BA sisters retain the "ageless look" shows that the OR was used to place their new vows to the DO.) I was somewhat surprised that Verin was unsure that the OR would remove those oaths, but the fact that she was dealing with the unknown in the DO, may have left room for her to doubt.


Agreed. Though it does beg the question of why she did not test it before. You have actually just pointed out an even more obvious problem that makes Verin even worse but more below.


I generally agree with most of this. The exception being that the wot world is not always a rational world. ;) And by this, I mean that the author has gone out of his way to not share knowledge between characters. Not just in the case for which you are trying to make, but it's a widespread theme whereby every character has knowledge that others could use, but for one reason or another, they never make the connection, ask the right question, or simply can't ask because of some artificial reason like ji, or toh, lowering ones eyes, fear of embarrassing someone, or some other far-fetched mechanization that prevents plots from being easily resolved.


Believe me, I know about WoT not being a rational world. :)

The post I made earlier about Rand and waygates is another example where I dislike people acting like morons. I do enjoy the series as a whole but I do dislike the fact that there are so many cases of people acting like idiots when they should know better.

Does the fact that Verin is surrounded by foolish people make it okay for her to be foolish too? Or does it just mean that all are to blame for being foolish, including Verin. I think the latter.


From what I can see, it looks as though Verin was looking for BA almost right up to the end. Perhaps her time with Alanna, the rebel embassy, as well as the captured Tower embassy, and the reclusive Cadsuane, were her attempt at covering as many bases as possible in her final rush to conclude the list. Certainly with the arrival of Rand, she knew her search would have to end soon, and she even mentions him screwing up her plans.


But surely she must have realised that since the BA was growing and changing all the time, the list would never be perfect. Not to mention that she could never reveal the list in public without a way out of the oaths. So while looking for BA was a major priority, freeing herself from the oaths would have been equally important if not more so.

You know, I wonder why she did not just reveal her knowledge the moment she knew that Dragon was reborn, back in the very beginning? We readers know Rand has plot-armor that makes him unkillable, but for all Verin knew some random BA sister might hunt and kill him when he was still weak and end everything if she did not stop it.

Why did she not destroy the BA by revealing what she knew to Siuan or anyone the moment she learned that Rand was the real Dragon Reborn and that the last battle had truly come? Sure she might not have caught every sister, but it would stil have been a lethal blow to the BA.

Instead she did not and let the BA run amok during the most important time in history, while also giving the Forsaken a powerfull tool to use in their plans. What possible motivation had she to dither and delay until the very last instant? I mean when she finally speaks out, the last battle is nearly upon the world and the BA have already accomplished most of their plans to weaken the world before the LB. Because she waited for so long, the only real thing Verin accomplished with her life's work was slightly reducing the amount of dreadlords available to face Rand at the end. Hurrah.


It's also apparent that Verin was relying on the Oath Rod to free herself from the Black Oaths. Unbeknownst to her, (and ironically), the BA Hunters had taken the OR from its usual storage area, and so it was unavailable to her.

The real question is, why didn't Verin just wait to find the OR instead of dosing herself with poison? Certainly her revelations were of utmost importance, but would waiting another day matter? The answer is, yes. By what we know from her visit to Mat, she had set a time limit upon herself to make all the necessary arrangements for delivering her research, and that would also allow for her to keep her oaths to the DO.


This is a good question. It is a really good question.

Why is it that Verin did not act the very moment she learned traveling? Why did Verin not travel to the tower store room the INSTANT she discovered the traveling weave and release herself from the oaths right then and there? I see NO reason to wait.

Infact why not do it before, sometime during the 70 years that she was an unwilling BA. okay, I could potentially see that the BA might have taken steps to prevent your average BA from doing so with regular tests to see if the oaths were still there or something. I could also see Verin having difficulties breaking through the wards into the storeroom or something. But these explanations become obsolete the moment she is taught traveling by Cadsuane and by the fact that she is now part of Rand's group and reasonably safe from BA tests/interference.

I think this is actually a far more stupid mistake in Verin's part. I got so stuck on the whole stilling thing to release her that I failed to see this. Verin should have fetched the OR long ago and released herself LOONG ago. What was she waiting for? Argh!
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I finished tGS last night... and really had to come back to you all. - 09/12/2009 02:11:05 AM 1430 Views
You bring up some good points - 09/12/2009 03:20:37 AM 895 Views
What if Verin really WAS Black? - 09/12/2009 03:32:07 PM 714 Views
Pretty much agree with you. - 09/12/2009 03:21:08 AM 685 Views
Hey, long time no see. Glad you're back! *NM* - 09/12/2009 03:28:50 AM 370 Views
Good to see you too, F-T. *NM* - 17/12/2009 09:58:26 PM 248 Views
Silly Verin! She did not need to die. - 09/12/2009 03:53:23 AM 779 Views
Re: Silly Verin! She did not need to die. - 09/12/2009 06:11:02 AM 672 Views
And does she know that Stilling breaks the Oaths? *NM* - 09/12/2009 06:16:54 AM 297 Views
She should. Some of the Aes Sedai who swore to Rand had been Stilled and then Restored by Flinn. - 09/12/2009 03:18:10 PM 638 Views
Then, wouldn't the BA/Shadow just kill her off? I think it'd be kind of obvious what she did. *NM* - 09/12/2009 03:23:05 PM 451 Views
I think that's beyond the BA's capabilities. - 09/12/2009 03:48:03 PM 521 Views
Doesn't mean they experimented with it. - 09/12/2009 08:48:23 PM 586 Views
Rebels had no reason to research a way to break the oaths. Verin did. - 10/12/2009 02:00:21 AM 631 Views
You're going at it upside-down. - 10/12/2009 02:33:41 AM 569 Views
Verin should have figured it out - 10/12/2009 03:03:14 AM 571 Views
Why? - 10/12/2009 04:15:45 AM 583 Views
I was just rereading that section yesterday.... - 10/12/2009 10:52:23 AM 750 Views
It all seems intuitively obvious to me! - 10/12/2009 07:58:46 PM 703 Views
Will you please look at your argument? - 10/12/2009 09:40:42 PM 643 Views
Re: It all seems intuitively obvious to me! - 11/12/2009 07:38:17 AM 640 Views
The damn Oath Rod! - 12/12/2009 01:32:47 AM 791 Views
Just having motivation is not enough - 11/12/2009 03:52:40 PM 662 Views
Agreed, you also need a working brain. Where did Verin's go? - 12/12/2009 12:54:17 AM 483 Views
I don't think those would work - 09/12/2009 07:03:38 AM 638 Views
She should and could have found a better way. - 09/12/2009 07:41:28 AM 619 Views
I agree. - 09/12/2009 03:16:27 PM 508 Views
Re: She should and could have found a better way. - 10/12/2009 12:13:40 AM 589 Views
Re: She should and could have found a better way. - 10/12/2009 02:30:14 AM 562 Views
Re: Silly Verin! She did not need to die. - 09/12/2009 08:44:31 PM 665 Views
There is also this small problem of Tower Law - 10/12/2009 08:24:55 AM 480 Views
I always thought Masema was an irritating distraction and was glad he was killed quickly. - 09/12/2009 03:53:44 AM 632 Views
Yes, Masema was a bore. - 09/12/2009 03:13:40 PM 634 Views
Agreed. *NM* - 09/12/2009 09:25:02 PM 341 Views
- 09/12/2009 04:44:10 AM 687 Views
Re: - 09/12/2009 08:13:24 PM 660 Views
Hey Mark. - 17/12/2009 10:00:58 PM 590 Views
Great to see you again! - 09/12/2009 05:01:01 AM 805 Views
Yep, and Sheriam ended up losing a finger or two in the process. - 09/12/2009 03:49:45 PM 594 Views
Why do you think we'll never see Mesaana closure? *NM* - 09/12/2009 06:07:08 AM 422 Views
Re: Why do you think we'll never see Mesaana closure? - 09/12/2009 06:13:22 AM 541 Views
It's great to see you around again! - 09/12/2009 07:06:45 AM 649 Views
:'( - 09/12/2009 11:29:03 PM 594 Views
Good to see you too. - 17/12/2009 10:01:57 PM 573 Views
Re: Good to see you too. - 19/12/2009 06:12:11 AM 549 Views
Hee... gotta love zoos. - 19/12/2009 06:18:35 AM 520 Views
Mine added up to many vet bills this week. - 19/12/2009 07:22:40 AM 510 Views
Eeeep! Bills are not good! - 19/12/2009 07:24:36 AM 537 Views
- 20/12/2009 06:46:38 AM 579 Views
LMAO! - 20/12/2009 08:25:02 AM 417 Views
- 21/12/2009 07:41:18 AM 529 Views

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