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Re: Let's work with your figures... darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 17/12/2009 07:16:49 PM
A few points that I'm going to throw out:

1. I'm in the camp that there are too many Channeling differences to compare men to women. Strength is only one of the many measures we've seen that is incongruous. Why can a woman of little power weave a longer air bridge than a man? Why do women get both stronger and more dexterous when links are formed, rather than just stronger? Why can't men link for that matter! Rand could be a 400 on female scales for all we know! It's like measuring cubic feet vs. a metric ton... or It's like saying a woman can run 2 miles and a man can cycle 5 miles... that doesn't tell us a damn thing about how they compare ... they are just different.

2. The Logain quote makes no sense at all! Rand who is clearly stronger had no chance of breaking the shield held on him until it was down to 3 women! So the odds of Logain really being able to break that shield are slim unless the women were all Daigian weak.

3. Were is the quote saying Lanfear was 2x stronger than Elayne? All that is said is that Moiraine believes Aviendha and Egwene combined could match Lanfear, when neither Aviendha nor Egwene are at their full strength. But even if they were 120 vs. Lanfear's 100 they still don't have the skill necessary to survive the encounter... Alivia was probably over 200 when she faced Cyndane's 90 and still basically got her ass handed to her.

4. As I stated below, I believe the average AS are quite weak, it's the main characters that I think are stronger than you guys are giving them credit for. IMO an "average AS" is probably about a 25, with a weak one at 15 and a strong one 35 with a few outliers above that level. Looking at the women above that we have what a dozen in the AS ranks? With a thousand below it... if you throw in you must be a 30 to Travel it works for me ... then 3 "strong AS" would be necessary to hold a shield on the likes of Lanfear, or 2 "average AS" for Egwene, as we see in TGS.

In the end I see "effectiveness" as meaning Egwene can perform task X, which makes her as effective as a man who can also perform task X to the same degree... it has nothing to do with their relative strength to one another.

With that said, let's look at Semirhage being shielded... it took 3 women at all times, but Daigian was in the last link with Nesune and Erian (IIRC)... together they would be about 45 strength by your scales ... and probably shouldn't be strong enough to shield Semirhave who's probably upwards of 80-85! Unless you think someone can hold a shield on you when they are half your strength? IMO this 3-some would need to be a minimum of 60 to hold a shield on Semirhage, probably closer to 70 to be "taking no chances" as Cadsuane says.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha - 17/12/2009 03:32:03 PM 8924 Views
I assume you're referring to EFFECTIVE strength here... - 17/12/2009 04:27:53 PM 1810 Views
Re: I assume you're referring to EFFECTIVE strength here... - 17/12/2009 05:05:18 PM 1765 Views
Fair enough but the problem is... - 17/12/2009 05:13:39 PM 1561 Views
There's one thing that does suggest Lanfear is very dextrous... - 17/12/2009 05:49:14 PM 1673 Views
Re: Fair enough but the problem is... - 17/12/2009 08:08:27 PM 1240 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha - 17/12/2009 04:52:56 PM 1826 Views
Alivia's rings and chains angreal multiplies strength by 4 times or more... - 17/12/2009 04:57:17 PM 1549 Views
Indeed, and not only that - 17/12/2009 05:10:46 PM 1245 Views
Re: Alivia's rings and chains angreal multiplies strength by 4 times or more... - 17/12/2009 06:07:39 PM 1280 Views
Moiraine at 45 strength is way too high. She can't be that high. *NM* - 17/12/2009 07:44:50 PM 815 Views
why? - 17/12/2009 07:57:37 PM 1366 Views
Re: why? - 17/12/2009 08:11:13 PM 1426 Views
I don't think there is one scale you can put both men and women on is the point - 17/12/2009 08:21:21 PM 1410 Views
and yet RJ does - 17/12/2009 08:27:39 PM 1317 Views
Re: and yet RJ does - 17/12/2009 09:49:20 PM 1180 Views
Re: and yet RJ does - 18/12/2009 04:20:16 AM 1238 Views
No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it! - 18/12/2009 05:08:04 PM 1390 Views
Re: No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it! - 19/12/2009 11:53:24 AM 1149 Views
Re: No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it! - 19/12/2009 05:12:47 PM 1072 Views
Meh... - 19/12/2009 06:01:56 PM 1082 Views
Re: Meh... - 19/12/2009 06:43:58 PM 1145 Views
Re: Meh... - 19/12/2009 06:46:03 PM 1436 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha - 17/12/2009 05:07:28 PM 1363 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha - 17/12/2009 06:24:12 PM 1319 Views
Let's work with your figures... - 17/12/2009 06:45:46 PM 1200 Views
Re: Let's work with your figures... - 17/12/2009 07:16:49 PM 1196 Views
You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. *NM* - 17/12/2009 07:50:25 PM 785 Views
Re: You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. - 17/12/2009 07:59:13 PM 1298 Views
Still, it's created more questions than it has solved. - 17/12/2009 08:13:26 PM 1320 Views
the obvious answer - 17/12/2009 10:06:33 PM 1161 Views
Re: You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. - 17/12/2009 08:14:01 PM 1195 Views
Re: two women holding Nynaeve - 17/12/2009 08:17:10 PM 1153 Views
Re: two women holding Nynaeve - 17/12/2009 08:19:34 PM 1330 Views
I personally think Nynaeve gained strength slower than most because of her block. - 17/12/2009 08:30:44 PM 1421 Views
I think all the main characters were forced - 17/12/2009 08:38:41 PM 1296 Views
agreed! - 17/12/2009 10:01:37 PM 1216 Views
but we know as late as WH that she has not reached her full potential - 17/12/2009 09:50:12 PM 1222 Views
What? Where? *NM* - 18/12/2009 04:22:36 AM 1273 Views
I'll have to dig up the quote, apologies but I'm at work and don't have the books - 18/12/2009 05:00:20 PM 1225 Views
Sorry, Path of Daggers not Winter's Heart - 20/12/2009 03:32:33 AM 1166 Views
Don't links amplify stength? - 17/12/2009 10:26:12 PM 1127 Views
The opposite, actually. - 17/12/2009 10:36:51 PM 1212 Views
What do you think of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage in relation to - 17/12/2009 05:40:41 PM 1367 Views
Re: What do you think of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage in relation to - 17/12/2009 08:15:58 PM 1267 Views
Agreed! *NM* - 17/12/2009 08:19:08 PM 699 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha - 17/12/2009 06:47:23 PM 1379 Views
Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... - 17/12/2009 06:53:18 PM 1293 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... - 17/12/2009 07:26:55 PM 1501 Views
uhm.... yes she knows - 17/12/2009 08:04:08 PM 1358 Views
Re: uhm.... yes she knows - 17/12/2009 10:24:17 PM 1231 Views
yup *NM* - 17/12/2009 10:49:51 PM 649 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... - 17/12/2009 07:28:00 PM 1304 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... - 17/12/2009 08:23:01 PM 1498 Views
Ishamael told her that she would never be strong enough to face him - 17/12/2009 09:52:47 PM 1256 Views
And Ishamael was killed be a shepherd and Bel'al balefired by a "weak" Aes Sedai. - 17/12/2009 10:33:41 PM 1232 Views
I hope that's not your standard for dueling - 18/12/2009 04:24:09 AM 1226 Views
what you expect a Channeler to announce themselves and - 19/12/2009 12:47:17 AM 1222 Views
How can we be certain Egwene was at full strength when she said that? - 17/12/2009 07:58:39 PM 1167 Views
agreed - 17/12/2009 08:00:40 PM 1130 Views
Didn't the glossary say that Cadsuane was not far behind Eg/El? *NM* - 17/12/2009 08:05:32 PM 714 Views
I'll check *NM* - 17/12/2009 08:28:57 PM 668 Views
This thread has achieved absolutely nothing. When people don't accept quotes, what's the use... - 17/12/2009 10:22:45 PM 1272 Views
No people just interpret things differently - 17/12/2009 10:56:45 PM 1071 Views
But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? - 17/12/2009 11:13:40 PM 1020 Views
You also forget something. - 17/12/2009 11:36:50 PM 1124 Views
Re: You also forget something. - 17/12/2009 11:43:50 PM 1138 Views
Re: You also forget something. - 18/12/2009 02:09:08 AM 1157 Views
That has nothing to do with what I said... - 18/12/2009 12:21:06 AM 1139 Views
Re: That has nothing to do with what I said... - 18/12/2009 01:28:53 PM 1047 Views
Dude, prove it in a random sample, not in a skewed sample like "women who want to be Aes Sedai". - 18/12/2009 05:43:22 PM 1079 Views
Show me a random sample in the series that we can use *NM* - 18/12/2009 06:45:08 PM 1066 Views
I cannot. That's the point... - 18/12/2009 08:33:38 PM 1125 Views
Re: I cannot. That's the point... - 19/12/2009 11:58:39 AM 1138 Views
Sorry, but no... - 19/12/2009 06:23:41 PM 1138 Views
The One Power Bell Curve's average strength is not 50, it is more like 15... - 17/12/2009 11:41:48 PM 1625 Views
but you are the person quantifying the actual strength levels. - 18/12/2009 12:09:08 AM 1118 Views
Yes, Sidious' scale is a relative scale not an absolute one *NM* - 18/12/2009 12:23:25 AM 1005 Views
In a Bell curve, mean=median=mode. I suppose that is untrue now? - 18/12/2009 12:37:47 AM 1057 Views
Re: In a Bell curve, mean=median=mode. I suppose that is untrue now? - 18/12/2009 12:47:52 AM 1115 Views
What do you mean, relative scale? - 18/12/2009 12:53:29 AM 1054 Views
Re: What do you mean, relative scale? - 18/12/2009 01:16:53 AM 1012 Views
Re: What do you mean, relative scale? - 18/12/2009 01:40:33 AM 1094 Views
OK, I have no interest in OP Strength, but you comments about statistics and bell curve got me - 18/12/2009 12:20:27 AM 1111 Views
1 to 100 works perfectly well as a range... - 18/12/2009 12:47:44 AM 1028 Views
Here is an example with an absolute scale, converted to relative - 18/12/2009 01:03:38 AM 1195 Views
The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population! - 18/12/2009 01:28:38 AM 1172 Views
Re: The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population! - 18/12/2009 02:03:00 AM 1225 Views
Re: The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population! - 18/12/2009 03:16:25 AM 1184 Views
You're right, and that proves my point - here are the calculations and the evidence... - 18/12/2009 07:51:26 AM 1156 Views
Dude, read up on some statistics, then we'll continue this debate... - 18/12/2009 06:05:26 PM 1062 Views
Explain one thing to me... - 18/12/2009 10:40:00 PM 1093 Views
Who said she's stronger than two very strong AS? Silviana can shield her alone! *NM* - 18/12/2009 11:01:01 PM 610 Views
Aviendha said so in FoH. It is a direct quote. - 18/12/2009 11:04:21 PM 1056 Views
This is why I have a hard time with anyone using too many - 19/12/2009 12:22:40 AM 1092 Views
Can you provide the quote? - 19/12/2009 06:24:40 PM 999 Views
Well, I was curious so I went and found it - 26/12/2009 08:59:46 PM 1193 Views
which is also suspect - 19/12/2009 12:04:14 AM 1109 Views
No it's not - 19/12/2009 12:04:21 PM 1081 Views
we're in agreement - 19/12/2009 05:22:34 PM 1040 Views
OK, the Tower AS don't fall into a bell-curve, then. - 18/12/2009 10:34:16 PM 1112 Views
So, RJ made that statement for what reason? - 18/12/2009 11:03:30 PM 1077 Views
I don't think it's a lie - 18/12/2009 11:19:41 PM 1122 Views
Agreed - 18/12/2009 01:04:14 PM 1064 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? - 18/12/2009 04:31:53 AM 1065 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? - 18/12/2009 04:42:33 AM 1033 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? - 18/12/2009 01:04:39 PM 1100 Views
Bell curves CANNOT be skewed! - 18/12/2009 06:06:15 PM 1150 Views
I've discussed this before... - 18/12/2009 01:06:07 AM 1159 Views
Re: I've discussed this before... - 18/12/2009 04:37:30 AM 1158 Views
Re: I've discussed this before... - 18/12/2009 04:58:48 AM 1101 Views
Egwene + Lelaine + Romanda is weaker than one male Forsaken...according to Egwene herself... - 18/12/2009 07:02:28 AM 1142 Views
Why are you entertaining this? - 18/12/2009 01:19:25 PM 1103 Views
Re: Egwene + Lelaine + Romanda is weaker than one male Forsaken...according to Egwene herself... - 19/12/2009 12:46:18 AM 1110 Views
I can't imagine it being about skill - 19/12/2009 12:06:42 PM 1141 Views
of course it's about skill - 19/12/2009 05:22:45 PM 1121 Views
Not it isn't! - 19/12/2009 05:52:02 PM 1151 Views
I always thought that without her angreal... - 18/12/2009 06:27:07 AM 1209 Views
Egwene, Elayne, and Aviendha are equally matched. - 18/12/2009 07:47:03 AM 1339 Views

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