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Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 17/12/2009 07:28:00 PM
and she is correct. Moghediens vastly greater knowledge and skill would be the deciding factor. Just as Cyndane's was with Alivia.

Brute strength is a silly convention the modern AS seem to have created and now is held as the ONLY measure people want to look at. The Forsaken don't even really note strength amongst themselves, rather judging "deadliness" based on skills and ability. Graendal never comments on Semirhage or Mesaana's OP strength, just measures them by what they accomplished.

Moghedien is obviously the weakest, and probably the least skilled of the FS, but she's still had 200+ years of AoL training to fall back on... Egwene is incredibly skilled for a 3rd Age woman, but there is no way she has anything approaching the skill to really stand a chance against even Moghedien. Look her up in a 200 years and I believe that would be a different story.

I've always said bonfire vs. candle was political hyperbole on Moiraine's part. It's clearly not an accurate measurement (if it was Nynaeve would be thousands of times stronger than Egwene and we know that's not the case).
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha Sidious - 17/12/2009 03:32:03 PM 11099 Views
I assume you're referring to EFFECTIVE strength here... Shannow - 17/12/2009 04:27:53 PM 2141 Views
Re: I assume you're referring to EFFECTIVE strength here... Sidious - 17/12/2009 05:05:18 PM 1981 Views
Fair enough but the problem is... Shannow - 17/12/2009 05:13:39 PM 1778 Views
There's one thing that does suggest Lanfear is very dextrous... fionwe1987 - 17/12/2009 05:49:14 PM 1859 Views
Re: Fair enough but the problem is... Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:08:27 PM 1433 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 04:52:56 PM 2102 Views
Alivia's rings and chains angreal multiplies strength by 4 times or more... Shannow - 17/12/2009 04:57:17 PM 1776 Views
Indeed, and not only that Sidious - 17/12/2009 05:10:46 PM 1449 Views
Re: Alivia's rings and chains angreal multiplies strength by 4 times or more... darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 06:07:39 PM 1502 Views
Moiraine at 45 strength is way too high. She can't be that high. *NM* Logain - 17/12/2009 07:44:50 PM 917 Views
why? darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 07:57:37 PM 1572 Views
Re: why? Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:11:13 PM 1624 Views
I don't think there is one scale you can put both men and women on is the point darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 08:21:21 PM 1591 Views
and yet RJ does Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:27:39 PM 1532 Views
Re: and yet RJ does darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 09:49:20 PM 1383 Views
Re: and yet RJ does Sidious - 18/12/2009 04:20:16 AM 1447 Views
No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it! darius_sedai - 18/12/2009 05:08:04 PM 1598 Views
Re: No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it! Sidious - 19/12/2009 11:53:24 AM 1382 Views
Re: No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it! darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 05:12:47 PM 1262 Views
Meh... Sidious - 19/12/2009 06:01:56 PM 1277 Views
Re: Meh... darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 06:43:58 PM 1351 Views
Re: Meh... darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 06:46:03 PM 1636 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha Sidious - 17/12/2009 05:07:28 PM 1557 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 06:24:12 PM 1536 Views
Let's work with your figures... Shannow - 17/12/2009 06:45:46 PM 1413 Views
Re: Let's work with your figures... darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 07:16:49 PM 1385 Views
You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. *NM* Logain - 17/12/2009 07:50:25 PM 877 Views
Re: You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 07:59:13 PM 1495 Views
Still, it's created more questions than it has solved. Logain - 17/12/2009 08:13:26 PM 1503 Views
the obvious answer darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 10:06:33 PM 1367 Views
Re: You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:14:01 PM 1384 Views
Re: two women holding Nynaeve Logain - 17/12/2009 08:17:10 PM 1338 Views
Re: two women holding Nynaeve Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:19:34 PM 1543 Views
I personally think Nynaeve gained strength slower than most because of her block. Logain - 17/12/2009 08:30:44 PM 1620 Views
I think all the main characters were forced Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:38:41 PM 1485 Views
agreed! darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 10:01:37 PM 1392 Views
but we know as late as WH that she has not reached her full potential darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 09:50:12 PM 1438 Views
What? Where? *NM* Sidious - 18/12/2009 04:22:36 AM 1451 Views
I'll have to dig up the quote, apologies but I'm at work and don't have the books darius_sedai - 18/12/2009 05:00:20 PM 1419 Views
Sorry, Path of Daggers not Winter's Heart darius_sedai - 20/12/2009 03:32:33 AM 1378 Views
Don't links amplify stength? BlackAdder - 17/12/2009 10:26:12 PM 1325 Views
The opposite, actually. Phelix - 17/12/2009 10:36:51 PM 1416 Views
Gateway theory refutes this. The size of gateway is relevant to strength Logain - 17/12/2009 07:46:55 PM 1323 Views
Re: Gateway theory refutes this. The size of gateway is relevant to strength darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 07:55:38 PM 1507 Views
What do you think of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage in relation to Logain - 17/12/2009 05:40:41 PM 1567 Views
It means even Moghedien is vastly stronger than the average modern Aes Sedai... Shannow - 17/12/2009 05:48:09 PM 1605 Views
Re: What do you think of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage in relation to Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:15:58 PM 1471 Views
Agreed! *NM* Logain - 17/12/2009 08:19:08 PM 812 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha RugbyPlayingAshaman - 17/12/2009 06:47:23 PM 1580 Views
Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... Shannow - 17/12/2009 06:53:18 PM 1500 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 17/12/2009 07:26:55 PM 1704 Views
uhm.... yes she knows Oberonus - 17/12/2009 08:04:08 PM 1564 Views
Re: uhm.... yes she knows RugbyPlayingAshaman - 17/12/2009 10:24:17 PM 1432 Views
yup *NM* darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 10:49:51 PM 747 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 07:28:00 PM 1509 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:23:01 PM 1699 Views
Ishamael told her that she would never be strong enough to face him darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 09:52:47 PM 1446 Views
And Ishamael was killed be a shepherd and Bel'al balefired by a "weak" Aes Sedai. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 17/12/2009 10:33:41 PM 1463 Views
I hope that's not your standard for dueling Sidious - 18/12/2009 04:24:09 AM 1412 Views
what you expect a Channeler to announce themselves and darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 12:47:17 AM 1413 Views
How can we be certain Egwene was at full strength when she said that? Logain - 17/12/2009 07:58:39 PM 1365 Views
agreed darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 08:00:40 PM 1339 Views
Elayne says Egwene was at her full strength in TSR, and thus was stronger than she currently was. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 17/12/2009 10:25:31 PM 1295 Views
Elayne says Egwene was forced and was thus currently stronger darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 10:51:28 PM 1333 Views
Definitely TSR, because I re-read that book constantly - will try to find the section! RugbyPlayingAshaman - 17/12/2009 11:23:20 PM 1334 Views
Re: Definitely TSR, because I re-read that book constantly - will try to find the section! darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 11:25:31 PM 1377 Views
Didn't the glossary say that Cadsuane was not far behind Eg/El? *NM* Cannoli - 17/12/2009 08:05:32 PM 831 Views
I'll check *NM* Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:28:57 PM 762 Views
This thread has achieved absolutely nothing. When people don't accept quotes, what's the use... Shannow - 17/12/2009 10:22:45 PM 1449 Views
No people just interpret things differently darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 10:56:45 PM 1270 Views
But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? fionwe1987 - 17/12/2009 11:13:40 PM 1215 Views
I think they are secretly just trying to make Lanfear appear that much stronger *NM* darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 11:17:38 PM 729 Views
You also forget something. Phelix - 17/12/2009 11:36:50 PM 1327 Views
Re: You also forget something. darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 11:43:50 PM 1320 Views
Re: You also forget something. Phelix - 18/12/2009 02:09:08 AM 1356 Views
That has nothing to do with what I said... fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 12:21:06 AM 1350 Views
Re: That has nothing to do with what I said... Sidious - 18/12/2009 01:28:53 PM 1242 Views
Dude, prove it in a random sample, not in a skewed sample like "women who want to be Aes Sedai". fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 05:43:22 PM 1296 Views
Show me a random sample in the series that we can use *NM* Sidious - 18/12/2009 06:45:08 PM 1252 Views
I cannot. That's the point... fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 08:33:38 PM 1322 Views
Re: I cannot. That's the point... Sidious - 19/12/2009 11:58:39 AM 1329 Views
Sorry, but no... fionwe1987 - 19/12/2009 06:23:41 PM 1361 Views
The One Power Bell Curve's average strength is not 50, it is more like 15... Shannow - 17/12/2009 11:41:48 PM 1825 Views
but you are the person quantifying the actual strength levels. darius_sedai - 18/12/2009 12:09:08 AM 1323 Views
Yes, Sidious' scale is a relative scale not an absolute one *NM* BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 12:23:25 AM 1247 Views
In a Bell curve, mean=median=mode. I suppose that is untrue now? fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 12:37:47 AM 1254 Views
Re: In a Bell curve, mean=median=mode. I suppose that is untrue now? BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 12:47:52 AM 1318 Views
What do you mean, relative scale? fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 12:53:29 AM 1240 Views
Re: What do you mean, relative scale? BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 01:16:53 AM 1204 Views
Re: What do you mean, relative scale? fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 01:40:33 AM 1310 Views
OK, I have no interest in OP Strength, but you comments about statistics and bell curve got me BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 12:20:27 AM 1322 Views
1 to 100 works perfectly well as a range... fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 12:47:44 AM 1216 Views
Here is an example with an absolute scale, converted to relative BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 01:03:38 AM 1462 Views
The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population! fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 01:28:38 AM 1369 Views
Re: The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population! BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 02:03:00 AM 1431 Views
Re: The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population! fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 03:16:25 AM 1392 Views
You're right, and that proves my point - here are the calculations and the evidence... Shannow - 18/12/2009 07:51:26 AM 1364 Views
Dude, read up on some statistics, then we'll continue this debate... fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 06:05:26 PM 1256 Views
Explain one thing to me... Shannow - 18/12/2009 10:40:00 PM 1322 Views
Who said she's stronger than two very strong AS? Silviana can shield her alone! *NM* fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 11:01:01 PM 710 Views
Aviendha said so in FoH. It is a direct quote. Shannow - 18/12/2009 11:04:21 PM 1264 Views
This is why I have a hard time with anyone using too many darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 12:22:40 AM 1295 Views
Can you provide the quote? fionwe1987 - 19/12/2009 06:24:40 PM 1206 Views
Well, I was curious so I went and found it darius_sedai - 26/12/2009 08:59:46 PM 1404 Views
which is also suspect darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 12:04:14 AM 1302 Views
No it's not Sidious - 19/12/2009 12:04:21 PM 1260 Views
we're in agreement darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 05:22:34 PM 1240 Views
OK, the Tower AS don't fall into a bell-curve, then. BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 10:34:16 PM 1298 Views
So, RJ made that statement for what reason? fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 11:03:30 PM 1258 Views
I don't think it's a lie BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 11:19:41 PM 1321 Views
Agreed Sidious - 18/12/2009 01:04:14 PM 1282 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? Sidious - 18/12/2009 04:31:53 AM 1277 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 04:42:33 AM 1231 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? Sidious - 18/12/2009 01:04:39 PM 1295 Views
Bell curves CANNOT be skewed! fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 06:06:15 PM 1354 Views
I've discussed this before... fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 01:06:07 AM 1350 Views
Re: I've discussed this before... Sidious - 18/12/2009 04:37:30 AM 1365 Views
Re: I've discussed this before... fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 04:58:48 AM 1323 Views
Egwene + Lelaine + Romanda is weaker than one male Forsaken...according to Egwene herself... Shannow - 18/12/2009 07:02:28 AM 1358 Views
Why are you entertaining this? Sidious - 18/12/2009 01:19:25 PM 1289 Views
The other poster showed no proof that RJ's math was wrong. Read what he said again! *NM* fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 06:09:49 PM 739 Views
Verin's circle matched Granedal dude. And average strength does not mean great strength. fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 06:07:51 PM 1323 Views
Re: Egwene + Lelaine + Romanda is weaker than one male Forsaken...according to Egwene herself... darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 12:46:18 AM 1304 Views
I can't imagine it being about skill Sidious - 19/12/2009 12:06:42 PM 1334 Views
of course it's about skill darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 05:22:45 PM 1344 Views
Not it isn't! Sidious - 19/12/2009 05:52:02 PM 1388 Views
If she was only thinking about strength why then didn't she have a plan to add Sheriam darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 07:09:08 PM 1269 Views
I always thought that without her angreal... everynametaken - 18/12/2009 06:27:07 AM 1442 Views
Egwene, Elayne, and Aviendha are equally matched. Heiko - 18/12/2009 07:47:03 AM 1547 Views
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