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In a Bell curve, mean=median=mode. I suppose that is untrue now? fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 18/12/2009 12:37:47 AM
I'll quote the wiki article on normal distribution/bell curve distribution just so there is no confusion on this:

Parameter ? is called the mean, and it determines the location of the peak of the density function. Point x = ? is at the same time the mean, the median and the mode of normal distribution.

Is that clear?

Now, RJ very very clearly said that all, I repeat ALL, channelers are distributed in a bell curve. Very clearly, people like Rand are not excluded from this distribution.

Therefore, if you're going to take Rand as the theoretical maximum in OP strength, and someone like Morghase as the theoretical minimum, the range of the bell curve will be from Morghase to Rand.

We have arbitrarily used strengths from 1 to 100 to designate the Morghase to Rand range. You can choose 2 to 947, for all I care, but the fact remains that no matter how you want to interpret the text, no matter how you want to curve your hand around your head to touch your nose, the mean, median and mode of this range will be the same for a bell curve distribution.

In a 1 to 100 range, 50 will have to be the median. As wiki says:

The median of a finite list of numbers can be found by arranging all the observations from lowest value to highest value and picking the middle one. If there is an even number of observations, then there is no single middle value, so one often takes the mean of the two middle values.

Thus, 50 is the median. And since the range 1-100 is distributed normally among the channeling population, the mean of the channeling population is also going to be 50. This is a mathematical truth, and there's no other possible interpretation!

Which means the average woman has an effective strength of 50, which is half of Rand's strength. This also means more women will be of this strength than any other.

Now, you have several options.

You could make the infantile argument that RJ did not have any idea what a Bell Curve was.

You can say that there are tons of Egwene level (50 according to you) channelers out there who have never been discovered, and some mysterious force prevented every single one of these women from finding their way to the Tower for a thousand years.

Or, you can admit that me and Darius are correct, that the strength of 50 reflects the strength of a strong Aes Sedai like Anaiya and that women like Egwene are much rarer and likely somewhere between 60 and 70. You can also pay attention to the very well known fact that it is harder for women to shield men and vice versa.

Me and Darius think that math and RJ's quotes should colour ou reading of the text. This seems eminently reasonable to me, but perhaps you have some explanation that will convince me to disbelieve what math and RJ tell us and instead follow your perspective on the text?
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The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha - 17/12/2009 03:32:03 PM 8688 Views
I assume you're referring to EFFECTIVE strength here... - 17/12/2009 04:27:53 PM 1732 Views
Re: I assume you're referring to EFFECTIVE strength here... - 17/12/2009 05:05:18 PM 1702 Views
Fair enough but the problem is... - 17/12/2009 05:13:39 PM 1509 Views
There's one thing that does suggest Lanfear is very dextrous... - 17/12/2009 05:49:14 PM 1619 Views
Re: Fair enough but the problem is... - 17/12/2009 08:08:27 PM 1187 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha - 17/12/2009 04:52:56 PM 1641 Views
Alivia's rings and chains angreal multiplies strength by 4 times or more... - 17/12/2009 04:57:17 PM 1490 Views
Indeed, and not only that - 17/12/2009 05:10:46 PM 1185 Views
Re: Alivia's rings and chains angreal multiplies strength by 4 times or more... - 17/12/2009 06:07:39 PM 1228 Views
Moiraine at 45 strength is way too high. She can't be that high. *NM* - 17/12/2009 07:44:50 PM 788 Views
why? - 17/12/2009 07:57:37 PM 1314 Views
Re: why? - 17/12/2009 08:11:13 PM 1379 Views
I don't think there is one scale you can put both men and women on is the point - 17/12/2009 08:21:21 PM 1339 Views
and yet RJ does - 17/12/2009 08:27:39 PM 1259 Views
Re: and yet RJ does - 17/12/2009 09:49:20 PM 1135 Views
Re: and yet RJ does - 18/12/2009 04:20:16 AM 1193 Views
No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it! - 18/12/2009 05:08:04 PM 1344 Views
Re: No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it! - 19/12/2009 11:53:24 AM 1090 Views
Re: No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it! - 19/12/2009 05:12:47 PM 1031 Views
Meh... - 19/12/2009 06:01:56 PM 1037 Views
Re: Meh... - 19/12/2009 06:43:58 PM 1095 Views
Re: Meh... - 19/12/2009 06:46:03 PM 1381 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha - 17/12/2009 05:07:28 PM 1313 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha - 17/12/2009 06:24:12 PM 1236 Views
Let's work with your figures... - 17/12/2009 06:45:46 PM 1138 Views
Re: Let's work with your figures... - 17/12/2009 07:16:49 PM 1153 Views
You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. *NM* - 17/12/2009 07:50:25 PM 756 Views
Re: You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. - 17/12/2009 07:59:13 PM 1250 Views
Still, it's created more questions than it has solved. - 17/12/2009 08:13:26 PM 1268 Views
the obvious answer - 17/12/2009 10:06:33 PM 1113 Views
Re: You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. - 17/12/2009 08:14:01 PM 1144 Views
Re: two women holding Nynaeve - 17/12/2009 08:17:10 PM 1100 Views
Re: two women holding Nynaeve - 17/12/2009 08:19:34 PM 1278 Views
I personally think Nynaeve gained strength slower than most because of her block. - 17/12/2009 08:30:44 PM 1358 Views
I think all the main characters were forced - 17/12/2009 08:38:41 PM 1243 Views
agreed! - 17/12/2009 10:01:37 PM 1169 Views
but we know as late as WH that she has not reached her full potential - 17/12/2009 09:50:12 PM 1176 Views
What? Where? *NM* - 18/12/2009 04:22:36 AM 1224 Views
I'll have to dig up the quote, apologies but I'm at work and don't have the books - 18/12/2009 05:00:20 PM 1156 Views
Sorry, Path of Daggers not Winter's Heart - 20/12/2009 03:32:33 AM 1112 Views
Don't links amplify stength? - 17/12/2009 10:26:12 PM 1063 Views
The opposite, actually. - 17/12/2009 10:36:51 PM 1165 Views
What do you think of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage in relation to - 17/12/2009 05:40:41 PM 1315 Views
Re: What do you think of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage in relation to - 17/12/2009 08:15:58 PM 1211 Views
Agreed! *NM* - 17/12/2009 08:19:08 PM 671 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha - 17/12/2009 06:47:23 PM 1303 Views
Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... - 17/12/2009 06:53:18 PM 1228 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... - 17/12/2009 07:26:55 PM 1450 Views
uhm.... yes she knows - 17/12/2009 08:04:08 PM 1297 Views
Re: uhm.... yes she knows - 17/12/2009 10:24:17 PM 1187 Views
yup *NM* - 17/12/2009 10:49:51 PM 629 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... - 17/12/2009 07:28:00 PM 1266 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... - 17/12/2009 08:23:01 PM 1449 Views
Ishamael told her that she would never be strong enough to face him - 17/12/2009 09:52:47 PM 1207 Views
And Ishamael was killed be a shepherd and Bel'al balefired by a "weak" Aes Sedai. - 17/12/2009 10:33:41 PM 1155 Views
I hope that's not your standard for dueling - 18/12/2009 04:24:09 AM 1175 Views
what you expect a Channeler to announce themselves and - 19/12/2009 12:47:17 AM 1171 Views
How can we be certain Egwene was at full strength when she said that? - 17/12/2009 07:58:39 PM 1123 Views
agreed - 17/12/2009 08:00:40 PM 1073 Views
Didn't the glossary say that Cadsuane was not far behind Eg/El? *NM* - 17/12/2009 08:05:32 PM 685 Views
I'll check *NM* - 17/12/2009 08:28:57 PM 647 Views
This thread has achieved absolutely nothing. When people don't accept quotes, what's the use... - 17/12/2009 10:22:45 PM 1219 Views
No people just interpret things differently - 17/12/2009 10:56:45 PM 1027 Views
But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? - 17/12/2009 11:13:40 PM 964 Views
You also forget something. - 17/12/2009 11:36:50 PM 1063 Views
Re: You also forget something. - 17/12/2009 11:43:50 PM 1089 Views
Re: You also forget something. - 18/12/2009 02:09:08 AM 1107 Views
That has nothing to do with what I said... - 18/12/2009 12:21:06 AM 1090 Views
Re: That has nothing to do with what I said... - 18/12/2009 01:28:53 PM 991 Views
Dude, prove it in a random sample, not in a skewed sample like "women who want to be Aes Sedai". - 18/12/2009 05:43:22 PM 1020 Views
Show me a random sample in the series that we can use *NM* - 18/12/2009 06:45:08 PM 1008 Views
I cannot. That's the point... - 18/12/2009 08:33:38 PM 1052 Views
Re: I cannot. That's the point... - 19/12/2009 11:58:39 AM 1067 Views
Sorry, but no... - 19/12/2009 06:23:41 PM 1078 Views
The One Power Bell Curve's average strength is not 50, it is more like 15... - 17/12/2009 11:41:48 PM 1565 Views
but you are the person quantifying the actual strength levels. - 18/12/2009 12:09:08 AM 1053 Views
Yes, Sidious' scale is a relative scale not an absolute one *NM* - 18/12/2009 12:23:25 AM 949 Views
In a Bell curve, mean=median=mode. I suppose that is untrue now? - 18/12/2009 12:37:47 AM 1004 Views
Re: In a Bell curve, mean=median=mode. I suppose that is untrue now? - 18/12/2009 12:47:52 AM 1055 Views
What do you mean, relative scale? - 18/12/2009 12:53:29 AM 1012 Views
Re: What do you mean, relative scale? - 18/12/2009 01:16:53 AM 952 Views
Re: What do you mean, relative scale? - 18/12/2009 01:40:33 AM 1025 Views
OK, I have no interest in OP Strength, but you comments about statistics and bell curve got me - 18/12/2009 12:20:27 AM 1061 Views
1 to 100 works perfectly well as a range... - 18/12/2009 12:47:44 AM 984 Views
Here is an example with an absolute scale, converted to relative - 18/12/2009 01:03:38 AM 1105 Views
The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population! - 18/12/2009 01:28:38 AM 1123 Views
Re: The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population! - 18/12/2009 02:03:00 AM 1175 Views
Re: The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population! - 18/12/2009 03:16:25 AM 1123 Views
You're right, and that proves my point - here are the calculations and the evidence... - 18/12/2009 07:51:26 AM 1091 Views
Dude, read up on some statistics, then we'll continue this debate... - 18/12/2009 06:05:26 PM 1017 Views
Explain one thing to me... - 18/12/2009 10:40:00 PM 1042 Views
Who said she's stronger than two very strong AS? Silviana can shield her alone! *NM* - 18/12/2009 11:01:01 PM 583 Views
Aviendha said so in FoH. It is a direct quote. - 18/12/2009 11:04:21 PM 1006 Views
This is why I have a hard time with anyone using too many - 19/12/2009 12:22:40 AM 1043 Views
Can you provide the quote? - 19/12/2009 06:24:40 PM 948 Views
Well, I was curious so I went and found it - 26/12/2009 08:59:46 PM 1133 Views
which is also suspect - 19/12/2009 12:04:14 AM 1046 Views
No it's not - 19/12/2009 12:04:21 PM 1028 Views
we're in agreement - 19/12/2009 05:22:34 PM 987 Views
OK, the Tower AS don't fall into a bell-curve, then. - 18/12/2009 10:34:16 PM 1052 Views
So, RJ made that statement for what reason? - 18/12/2009 11:03:30 PM 1027 Views
I don't think it's a lie - 18/12/2009 11:19:41 PM 1074 Views
Agreed - 18/12/2009 01:04:14 PM 1015 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? - 18/12/2009 04:31:53 AM 1016 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? - 18/12/2009 04:42:33 AM 989 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? - 18/12/2009 01:04:39 PM 1045 Views
Bell curves CANNOT be skewed! - 18/12/2009 06:06:15 PM 1092 Views
I've discussed this before... - 18/12/2009 01:06:07 AM 1087 Views
Re: I've discussed this before... - 18/12/2009 04:37:30 AM 1071 Views
Re: I've discussed this before... - 18/12/2009 04:58:48 AM 1042 Views
Egwene + Lelaine + Romanda is weaker than one male Forsaken...according to Egwene herself... - 18/12/2009 07:02:28 AM 1079 Views
Why are you entertaining this? - 18/12/2009 01:19:25 PM 1057 Views
Re: Egwene + Lelaine + Romanda is weaker than one male Forsaken...according to Egwene herself... - 19/12/2009 12:46:18 AM 1061 Views
I can't imagine it being about skill - 19/12/2009 12:06:42 PM 1088 Views
of course it's about skill - 19/12/2009 05:22:45 PM 1060 Views
Not it isn't! - 19/12/2009 05:52:02 PM 1081 Views
I always thought that without her angreal... - 18/12/2009 06:27:07 AM 1136 Views
Egwene, Elayne, and Aviendha are equally matched. - 18/12/2009 07:47:03 AM 1288 Views

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