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Meh... Sidious Send a noteboard - 19/12/2009 06:01:56 PM

Rand has LTTs memories of the AoL to go on ... men and women back then worked with the opposite power in Links often enough to know how to perform many tasks... just like Semhirage had to think about how to make the pain weave work with saidin in TGS.


Yes I agree that Rand has those memories and that's what I'm alluding to. He says you take Compulsion and reverse it. He says that he's not very good with it. So it's similar.

Well, since men can't feel each others strength it's one of the only ways he has to make an estimate. But we know that Flinn can't make a Gateway commensurate with his actual strength. Rand doesn't wonder about it because he's not really thinking about the finer details of the Power. It's obvious that even a weaker channeler can outstrip very strong ones if they have the right Talent strongly enough (Berowin and Samitsu are excellent examples).


We don't know that about Flinn. We only know that he struggles to weave gateways. I completely agree with you that people with Talents are vastly superior to those who don't have the Talent, but some generalizations can be made. If you ask someone to make a giant fireball you can sort of say what they're capable of. It's unlikely they're very weak or very strong in Fire.

I'm 99% sure we're saying the same thing.


Yes, but you said you don't consider them to be the same, whereas I do.

I infer from Rands quote that the particular feat of weaving a bridge of air is simply easier to do with saidar than it is with saidin. Strength doesn't seem to be the issue here, as a limit is a limit... there are just different limits for men than for women.

Moiraine was simply an illustration.


Yes, it's obviously a saidar thing, probably centered around Air. I'm merely pointing out that strength in the Power can bridge many obstacles that are supposed to be there. I'm quite sure that Nynaeve isn't strong in all the five Powers but she doesn't really struggle with anything either. Likewise I think that most Ash'aman would struggle to weave an Air bridge, because it's Air (most Aes Sedai can't even fuse bricks using Earth). However, Rand is so strong in the Power he can pull it off, so I think it would take a powerful woman to exceed him. Rand can't Heal despite being strong, but making a bridge is a product of Air, and Rand can probably overcome that with strength to some degree. I think Lanfear would have the same limitations with Fire and Earth, but I still think it would take a very strong male to exceed her.
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The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha - 17/12/2009 03:32:03 PM 9352 Views
I assume you're referring to EFFECTIVE strength here... - 17/12/2009 04:27:53 PM 1907 Views
Re: I assume you're referring to EFFECTIVE strength here... - 17/12/2009 05:05:18 PM 1849 Views
Fair enough but the problem is... - 17/12/2009 05:13:39 PM 1657 Views
There's one thing that does suggest Lanfear is very dextrous... - 17/12/2009 05:49:14 PM 1741 Views
Re: Fair enough but the problem is... - 17/12/2009 08:08:27 PM 1325 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha - 17/12/2009 04:52:56 PM 1946 Views
Alivia's rings and chains angreal multiplies strength by 4 times or more... - 17/12/2009 04:57:17 PM 1627 Views
Indeed, and not only that - 17/12/2009 05:10:46 PM 1314 Views
Re: Alivia's rings and chains angreal multiplies strength by 4 times or more... - 17/12/2009 06:07:39 PM 1363 Views
Moiraine at 45 strength is way too high. She can't be that high. *NM* - 17/12/2009 07:44:50 PM 845 Views
why? - 17/12/2009 07:57:37 PM 1449 Views
Re: why? - 17/12/2009 08:11:13 PM 1506 Views
I don't think there is one scale you can put both men and women on is the point - 17/12/2009 08:21:21 PM 1477 Views
and yet RJ does - 17/12/2009 08:27:39 PM 1406 Views
Re: and yet RJ does - 17/12/2009 09:49:20 PM 1258 Views
Re: and yet RJ does - 18/12/2009 04:20:16 AM 1319 Views
No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it! - 18/12/2009 05:08:04 PM 1463 Views
Re: No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it! - 19/12/2009 11:53:24 AM 1233 Views
Re: No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it! - 19/12/2009 05:12:47 PM 1142 Views
Meh... - 19/12/2009 06:01:56 PM 1158 Views
Re: Meh... - 19/12/2009 06:43:58 PM 1221 Views
Re: Meh... - 19/12/2009 06:46:03 PM 1504 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha - 17/12/2009 05:07:28 PM 1440 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha - 17/12/2009 06:24:12 PM 1398 Views
Let's work with your figures... - 17/12/2009 06:45:46 PM 1278 Views
Re: Let's work with your figures... - 17/12/2009 07:16:49 PM 1263 Views
You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. *NM* - 17/12/2009 07:50:25 PM 818 Views
Re: You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. - 17/12/2009 07:59:13 PM 1366 Views
Still, it's created more questions than it has solved. - 17/12/2009 08:13:26 PM 1390 Views
the obvious answer - 17/12/2009 10:06:33 PM 1237 Views
Re: You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. - 17/12/2009 08:14:01 PM 1265 Views
Re: two women holding Nynaeve - 17/12/2009 08:17:10 PM 1220 Views
Re: two women holding Nynaeve - 17/12/2009 08:19:34 PM 1404 Views
I personally think Nynaeve gained strength slower than most because of her block. - 17/12/2009 08:30:44 PM 1506 Views
I think all the main characters were forced - 17/12/2009 08:38:41 PM 1369 Views
agreed! - 17/12/2009 10:01:37 PM 1277 Views
but we know as late as WH that she has not reached her full potential - 17/12/2009 09:50:12 PM 1299 Views
What? Where? *NM* - 18/12/2009 04:22:36 AM 1339 Views
I'll have to dig up the quote, apologies but I'm at work and don't have the books - 18/12/2009 05:00:20 PM 1300 Views
Sorry, Path of Daggers not Winter's Heart - 20/12/2009 03:32:33 AM 1237 Views
Don't links amplify stength? - 17/12/2009 10:26:12 PM 1209 Views
The opposite, actually. - 17/12/2009 10:36:51 PM 1293 Views
What do you think of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage in relation to - 17/12/2009 05:40:41 PM 1446 Views
Re: What do you think of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage in relation to - 17/12/2009 08:15:58 PM 1329 Views
Agreed! *NM* - 17/12/2009 08:19:08 PM 735 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha - 17/12/2009 06:47:23 PM 1452 Views
Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... - 17/12/2009 06:53:18 PM 1374 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... - 17/12/2009 07:26:55 PM 1578 Views
uhm.... yes she knows - 17/12/2009 08:04:08 PM 1420 Views
Re: uhm.... yes she knows - 17/12/2009 10:24:17 PM 1308 Views
yup *NM* - 17/12/2009 10:49:51 PM 679 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... - 17/12/2009 07:28:00 PM 1381 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... - 17/12/2009 08:23:01 PM 1573 Views
Ishamael told her that she would never be strong enough to face him - 17/12/2009 09:52:47 PM 1327 Views
And Ishamael was killed be a shepherd and Bel'al balefired by a "weak" Aes Sedai. - 17/12/2009 10:33:41 PM 1321 Views
I hope that's not your standard for dueling - 18/12/2009 04:24:09 AM 1288 Views
what you expect a Channeler to announce themselves and - 19/12/2009 12:47:17 AM 1282 Views
How can we be certain Egwene was at full strength when she said that? - 17/12/2009 07:58:39 PM 1247 Views
agreed - 17/12/2009 08:00:40 PM 1216 Views
Didn't the glossary say that Cadsuane was not far behind Eg/El? *NM* - 17/12/2009 08:05:32 PM 747 Views
I'll check *NM* - 17/12/2009 08:28:57 PM 692 Views
This thread has achieved absolutely nothing. When people don't accept quotes, what's the use... - 17/12/2009 10:22:45 PM 1336 Views
No people just interpret things differently - 17/12/2009 10:56:45 PM 1151 Views
But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? - 17/12/2009 11:13:40 PM 1098 Views
You also forget something. - 17/12/2009 11:36:50 PM 1204 Views
Re: You also forget something. - 17/12/2009 11:43:50 PM 1206 Views
Re: You also forget something. - 18/12/2009 02:09:08 AM 1223 Views
That has nothing to do with what I said... - 18/12/2009 12:21:06 AM 1211 Views
Re: That has nothing to do with what I said... - 18/12/2009 01:28:53 PM 1124 Views
Dude, prove it in a random sample, not in a skewed sample like "women who want to be Aes Sedai". - 18/12/2009 05:43:22 PM 1161 Views
Show me a random sample in the series that we can use *NM* - 18/12/2009 06:45:08 PM 1135 Views
I cannot. That's the point... - 18/12/2009 08:33:38 PM 1190 Views
Re: I cannot. That's the point... - 19/12/2009 11:58:39 AM 1212 Views
Sorry, but no... - 19/12/2009 06:23:41 PM 1216 Views
The One Power Bell Curve's average strength is not 50, it is more like 15... - 17/12/2009 11:41:48 PM 1701 Views
but you are the person quantifying the actual strength levels. - 18/12/2009 12:09:08 AM 1200 Views
Yes, Sidious' scale is a relative scale not an absolute one *NM* - 18/12/2009 12:23:25 AM 1105 Views
In a Bell curve, mean=median=mode. I suppose that is untrue now? - 18/12/2009 12:37:47 AM 1132 Views
Re: In a Bell curve, mean=median=mode. I suppose that is untrue now? - 18/12/2009 12:47:52 AM 1190 Views
What do you mean, relative scale? - 18/12/2009 12:53:29 AM 1114 Views
Re: What do you mean, relative scale? - 18/12/2009 01:16:53 AM 1086 Views
Re: What do you mean, relative scale? - 18/12/2009 01:40:33 AM 1192 Views
OK, I have no interest in OP Strength, but you comments about statistics and bell curve got me - 18/12/2009 12:20:27 AM 1195 Views
1 to 100 works perfectly well as a range... - 18/12/2009 12:47:44 AM 1096 Views
Here is an example with an absolute scale, converted to relative - 18/12/2009 01:03:38 AM 1282 Views
The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population! - 18/12/2009 01:28:38 AM 1238 Views
Re: The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population! - 18/12/2009 02:03:00 AM 1303 Views
Re: The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population! - 18/12/2009 03:16:25 AM 1266 Views
You're right, and that proves my point - here are the calculations and the evidence... - 18/12/2009 07:51:26 AM 1234 Views
Dude, read up on some statistics, then we'll continue this debate... - 18/12/2009 06:05:26 PM 1128 Views
Explain one thing to me... - 18/12/2009 10:40:00 PM 1162 Views
Who said she's stronger than two very strong AS? Silviana can shield her alone! *NM* - 18/12/2009 11:01:01 PM 645 Views
Aviendha said so in FoH. It is a direct quote. - 18/12/2009 11:04:21 PM 1119 Views
This is why I have a hard time with anyone using too many - 19/12/2009 12:22:40 AM 1159 Views
Can you provide the quote? - 19/12/2009 06:24:40 PM 1083 Views
Well, I was curious so I went and found it - 26/12/2009 08:59:46 PM 1271 Views
which is also suspect - 19/12/2009 12:04:14 AM 1191 Views
No it's not - 19/12/2009 12:04:21 PM 1146 Views
we're in agreement - 19/12/2009 05:22:34 PM 1109 Views
OK, the Tower AS don't fall into a bell-curve, then. - 18/12/2009 10:34:16 PM 1180 Views
So, RJ made that statement for what reason? - 18/12/2009 11:03:30 PM 1148 Views
I don't think it's a lie - 18/12/2009 11:19:41 PM 1207 Views
Agreed - 18/12/2009 01:04:14 PM 1145 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? - 18/12/2009 04:31:53 AM 1149 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? - 18/12/2009 04:42:33 AM 1110 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? - 18/12/2009 01:04:39 PM 1181 Views
Bell curves CANNOT be skewed! - 18/12/2009 06:06:15 PM 1221 Views
I've discussed this before... - 18/12/2009 01:06:07 AM 1228 Views
Re: I've discussed this before... - 18/12/2009 04:37:30 AM 1243 Views
Re: I've discussed this before... - 18/12/2009 04:58:48 AM 1202 Views
Egwene + Lelaine + Romanda is weaker than one male Forsaken...according to Egwene herself... - 18/12/2009 07:02:28 AM 1226 Views
Why are you entertaining this? - 18/12/2009 01:19:25 PM 1174 Views
Re: Egwene + Lelaine + Romanda is weaker than one male Forsaken...according to Egwene herself... - 19/12/2009 12:46:18 AM 1178 Views
I can't imagine it being about skill - 19/12/2009 12:06:42 PM 1207 Views
of course it's about skill - 19/12/2009 05:22:45 PM 1191 Views
Not it isn't! - 19/12/2009 05:52:02 PM 1227 Views
I always thought that without her angreal... - 18/12/2009 06:27:07 AM 1299 Views
Egwene, Elayne, and Aviendha are equally matched. - 18/12/2009 07:47:03 AM 1411 Views

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