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That's why I said I was. Phelix Send a noteboard - 01/01/2010 06:19:22 PM

Aes Sedai is a Title, and it means "Servant of All." "Sedai" is an honorific... but I am splitting hairs.

Yup.

Either way, taking a word and making it a proper noun does not change the meaning, other than making it more specific. "God" refers to a specific deity, but "god" is more general.

That is true in English.


Yes, the same word can have different meanings depending on its context, but with the context it becomes quite specific.

What does this even mean? After the word's meaning is modified by context, it becomes unmodifiable?


Not at all, but a lack of context implies the most basic meaning. A highly specific meaning does not make sense for the unmodified word.

"Ashan'darei" means sword spear, and we know that adding an "n" at the end of words is a general pluralizing tool in the OT, Asha'man, therefor should mean "Sword something " provided we knew what the word "man" meant in the OT. We are told, however, that Asha'man means guardian. The adding of a clause or a modifier changes the meaning of an established word. The lack of a modifier should not do so.

Why shouldn't it? We've been told repeatedly that context changes everything.


Again, context is what changes it. If there is no context, then it should use the most basic meaning.

Moiraine took a sip of wine. “The Old Tongue is often difficult to translate.” Egwene stared at her. The Old Tongue? What about the rings, the ter’angreal? But Moiraine went blithely on. “Tel’aran’rhiod means the World of Dreams, or perhaps the Unseen World. Neither is really exact; it is more complex than that.

Aan’allein. One Man, but also The Man Who Is an Entire People, and two or three other ways to translate it as well. And the words we have taken for common use, and never think of their meanings in the Old Tongue. Warders are called ‘Gaidin,’ which was ‘brothers to battle.’ Aes Sedai meant ‘servant of all.’ And ‘Aiel’, ‘Dedicated,’ in the Old Tongue. Stronger than that; it implies an oath written into your bones. I have often wondered what the Aiel are dedicated to.” The Wise Ones’ faces had gone to iron, but Moiraine continued.

“And Jenn Aiel.’ ‘The true dedicated,’ but again stronger. Perhaps ‘the only true dedicated.’ The only true Aiel?” She looked at them questioningly, just as if they did not suddenly have eyes of stone. None of them spoke.


Because Moiraine is the most reliable source. 8}

If one word like Aan'allein can mean one man as well as The Man Who Is An Entire People, then I see no reason why Sedai cannot mean two things.


Aan'allein is a specific title that the Aiel have applied to Lan.

Look at the word Aiel. It means dedicated, but implies a lot more. Sedai may mean servant, but may imply service to the will of the Pattern/Creator, etc.


The context does that to the word "aiel." During the AoL there were thousands of years of the Aiel serving Aes Sedai. If that had not happened, the word would not have taken on the subtext of such deep dedication.


That shift in meaning comes from the fact that it becomes a title. The literal meaning does not change. Mierin Sedai means Servant Mierin, but we all know that Mierin is a Servant of All, a person who has dedicated her life to serving the higher good of all. That subtext and meaning comes from the appropriation of the word by the Aes Sedai.

Your original reply suggested that "sedai" meant a person who served the Creator, the Light, or the will of the pattern. There simply is no reason to believe that the word holds that meaning. Sure, there is a subtext that implies status, but that's it.

No. As I've shown, the very same word can mean something different in a different context. I see no reason to exclude Sedai from this rule.


Except for the fact that not a single person in 12 main line, one prequel, and one "Encyclopedia" have mentioned this alternate meaning? Sure, "sedai" could have alternate meanings, but we have absolutely no evidence that it does. As such, we should assume the most common translation while reading it, not a far fetched meaning that includes high philosophic concepts.
I was Phelix on wotmania, I will always be Phelix in the "real" world, and now I am Phelix on RAFO.

You will make all kinds of mistakes; but as long as you are generous and true and also fierce you cannot hurt the world or even seriously distress her.- Churchill

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It just occured to me Etzel - 31/12/2009 10:12:12 AM 1362 Views
I tink they did ursidae - 31/12/2009 10:52:32 AM 647 Views
Yeah, you are right, checked it. For example, Mierin Sedai is mentioned! *NM* Etzel - 31/12/2009 11:02:11 AM 495 Views
Re: It just occured to me Mysteria Indictus - 31/12/2009 11:07:29 AM 652 Views
Yeah, if you compare it to the Catholic Church... Etzel - 31/12/2009 11:34:49 AM 630 Views
Re: Yeah, if you compare it to the Catholic Church... Gerbeaud - 31/12/2009 02:20:32 PM 545 Views
In a democracy though... Silence_DoGood - 31/12/2009 02:38:21 PM 497 Views
Re: Yeah, if you compare it to the Catholic Church... Kieran - 31/12/2009 04:30:58 PM 552 Views
Depends on what the actual translation is... fionwe1987 - 31/12/2009 04:49:54 PM 535 Views
The translation... Phelix - 31/12/2009 06:17:07 PM 518 Views
Look at M'Hael fionwe1987 - 31/12/2009 08:12:35 PM 540 Views
No... Phelix - 31/12/2009 08:19:18 PM 492 Views
And Sedai is not a title? fionwe1987 - 31/12/2009 08:47:03 PM 573 Views
Nope, it is an honorific. Phelix - 31/12/2009 09:31:37 PM 642 Views
You're really splitting hairs... fionwe1987 - 01/01/2010 04:06:02 PM 728 Views
That's why I said I was. Phelix - 01/01/2010 06:19:22 PM 642 Views
My 2 cents... which may only be worth 1 darius_sedai - 01/01/2010 06:39:52 PM 615 Views
I'll cash that check, but I doubt my bank will care much. Phelix - 01/01/2010 06:49:25 PM 613 Views
Re: I'll cash that check, but I doubt my bank will care much. darius_sedai - 01/01/2010 07:27:57 PM 628 Views
Re: I'll cash that check, but I doubt my bank will care much. Phelix - 01/01/2010 07:37:17 PM 589 Views
Re: I'll cash that check, but I doubt my bank will care much. darius_sedai - 01/01/2010 08:08:58 PM 627 Views
Re: I'll cash that check, but I doubt my bank will care much. Phelix - 01/01/2010 09:05:45 PM 599 Views
I think we're pretty much in agreement darius_sedai - 01/01/2010 09:26:26 PM 615 Views
I'd agree with that. Phelix - 01/01/2010 10:20:52 PM 564 Views
I think it's a pride of humility thing.... Phelix - 31/12/2009 06:24:17 PM 575 Views
I think it's meant to be more like "public servant" than "household help" or "farmhand" BlackAdder - 31/12/2009 07:11:28 PM 454 Views
They don't care. The meaning of the honorific is irrelevant - all significance comes from context Cannoli - 01/01/2010 06:08:40 AM 531 Views
I Agree Yondaime - 01/01/2010 08:36:40 AM 490 Views
Re: I Agree Watcher - 01/01/2010 03:04:18 PM 481 Views
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