Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
StormCrow Send a noteboard - 09/12/2010 03:25:53 PM
The fact that Snape's patronus is a doe puzzles me. It clearly has a relation to Lily, but that connection to Lily only works if you know James is Prongs, which would not make it plausible for Snape to adopt it. I therefore assume that Lily's patronus was a doe, and that Snape has seen this without realising the significance of it, and that he in turn therefore connects her with it.
I think you're right that Lily's patronus was a doe and that's why Snape's is one too. I like it's inclusion here because I never thought it would be him, based on that form. Tonk's changed when she was falling for Lupin. I wonder when Snape's changed for Lily. I'm going to reread the Snape chapter tonight. I'm remembering a comment from Dumbledore about his patronus still being a doe after all this time.
And another horcrux dead. That is ... three down? Ring, Diary and Locket. And four to go? Rowena Ravenclaw's tiara is introduced in Mr Lovegood's attempt at recreating it.
Do we ever figure out if one of them was "used up" when Voldemort came back the first time? Still got Tiara, Cup, Nagini, Harry and what's in Voldemort's new body. I always got the impression that they destroy something he's used to regenerate, which was thereby a normal object.
The taboo is revealed, explaining a few apparently cheap plot turns, thereby making them non-cheap, which I like.
I didn't like this at first, but after reading it again and connecting the earlier Death Eater appearences, it works for me.
And the problem of using a wand you haven't won is shown in Harry's attempts to use the blackwood wand. I am a little surprised that was not remarked on before, as he has used Hermione's wand for a while. At any rate, it ties in with Voldemort's search for a wand, and then brings all this to the revelation of the Elder Wand. And explains that it must be captured from the previous owner, which serves to explain why Harry is having trouble with his new wand.
Hmm. Did he in some way capture Hermione's wand when he took it from her? I think it requires a bit of a stretch, but...
Wand lore gets confusing and there seem to be some nuances to how you can "win" a wand. Just simply taking it does not seem to be enough. Even with Draco's, later on, Harry doesn't feel 100% comfortable with a wand that he's one magically. I would have liked it if this was fleshed out more in early books, but I guess that would have taken some of the surprise out of the latter chapters of this installment.
Anyway: Deathly Hallows revealed indeed. I like the Hallows plot quite a lot, particularly since it is so well integrated. I never saw it as plot cupons in quite the same way as the horcruxes. In part because it draws on the invisibility cloak from book 1 and makes it more than just a plot device.
Discovering them in fable form is entertaining. I enjoy the choice aspect of the Hallows (both over horcruxes and how they're used) and that it's been weaved into the story through earlier installments. I think it's easier for Rowling to integrate them because there aren't as many of them as there are horcruxes. Gives Harry and easier path to defeating Voldemort, at least at first. His realizations about wand lore and to finish the horcrux task first are somewhat surprising coming from dear old Harry.
The Great Harry Potter Re-read: Book 7 - The Deathly Hallows
24/11/2010 07:47:44 PM
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Suggestions - tell us what we could do better for this final discussion.
24/11/2010 07:48:22 PM
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The series as a whole: overall thoughts about the Harry Potter universe and all it contains
24/11/2010 07:49:21 PM
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Overall thoughts for The Deathly Hallows
24/11/2010 07:50:12 PM
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This might be the only book other than the first where I actually like Harry.
30/11/2010 03:13:25 PM
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Argh, I keep mixing everything up with the movie!
04/12/2010 03:45:24 PM
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Re: Argh, I keep mixing everything up with the movie!
04/12/2010 10:33:03 PM
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Going all the way back to the beginning in a number of ways, all of them so far excellent.
07/12/2010 10:19:33 PM
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Having finished it again... it's good, at times great, but not the best book in the series, imho.
26/12/2010 08:19:47 PM
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Chapters 1-3: The Dark Lord Ascending, In Memorian, The Dursleys Departing.
24/11/2010 07:51:29 PM
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Characters: Voldemort, the Death Eaters, Harry, Dodge, Dumbledore, Skeeter & the Dursleys
24/11/2010 07:52:55 PM
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Snape, Draco, Lucius, Narcissa, Bellatrix, Harry, Ms Burbage, Dumbledore, and the Dursleys.
24/11/2010 11:46:16 PM
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Draco, female Death Eaters, Dumbledore.
25/11/2010 04:44:36 PM
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Re: Draco, female Death Eaters, Dumbledore.
25/11/2010 04:53:25 PM
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As Katie said, the husband is still around.
26/11/2010 10:56:30 AM
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Re: Charity Burbage
25/11/2010 06:47:43 PM
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Re: Charity Burbage
25/11/2010 06:48:52 PM
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Dudley
30/11/2010 03:16:25 PM
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Agreed, but she just went overboard too far early on for it to be credible now.
06/12/2010 08:44:48 PM
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Plotting, writing, early themes.
24/11/2010 07:53:33 PM
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Anything else? *NM*
24/11/2010 07:53:46 PM
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other stuff
24/11/2010 11:47:54 PM
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I've always thought Rowling went overboard with the Nazi links.
25/11/2010 04:26:58 PM
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Re: I've always thought Rowling went overboard with the Nazi links.
27/11/2010 01:20:44 AM
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Chapters 4-6: The Seven Potters, The Fallen Warrior, The Ghoul in Pyjamas *NM*
26/11/2010 07:27:53 PM
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Characters: Harry, the Order, Hedwig, Mr & Mrs Tonks, Voldemort, etc
26/11/2010 07:29:48 PM
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Harry, the twins, Mr and Mrs Tonks, Lupin, Mr and Mrs Weasley, Scrimgeour and Hermione
27/11/2010 11:56:17 AM
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Re: Harry, the twins, Mr and Mrs Tonks, Lupin, Mr and Mrs Weasley, Scrimgeour and Hermione
30/11/2010 02:52:12 PM
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The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things.
26/11/2010 07:30:35 PM
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Re: The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things.
27/11/2010 11:59:36 AM
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Yes, Dumbledore gives a very complex answer about the wand thing
01/12/2010 08:44:57 PM
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Any other thoughts? *NM*
26/11/2010 07:30:49 PM
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Chapters 7-9: The Will of Albus Dumbledore, The Wedding, A Place to Hide
29/11/2010 06:39:52 PM
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The characters: usual suspects, Scrimgeour, Doge, Krum, Luna, Xenophilius, etc.
29/11/2010 06:41:41 PM
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I just realized something about Krum.
06/12/2010 09:00:28 PM
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The action.
29/11/2010 06:42:10 PM
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Hermione and obliviate.
30/11/2010 02:23:51 PM
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Re: Hermione and obliviate.
30/11/2010 03:24:06 PM
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I think this was a Rowling mistake. It happens
01/12/2010 08:32:25 PM
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Agreed, though a rather blatant one that someone should have caught... *NM*
06/12/2010 08:18:58 PM
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Kreacher quoting Regulus raises an interesting point...
06/12/2010 08:33:02 PM
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Er, I posted this in the wrong place. That's what I get when I try to catch up. Sorry. *NM*
06/12/2010 08:34:06 PM
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Please, sir, may I have some more? *NM*
29/11/2010 06:44:14 PM
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I love the use of Patronuses (Patroni?) as messengers.
30/11/2010 02:59:04 PM
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Chapters 10-12: Kreacher's Tale, The Bribe, Magic is Might
01/12/2010 11:41:40 PM
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Characters: more of the trio, Kreacher, Mundungus, RAB and Umbridge
01/12/2010 11:42:34 PM
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Hermione and Ron, Sirius, Regulus, Kreacher, Lupin, Harry, Scrimgeour
02/12/2010 09:11:21 AM
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Re: Hermione and Ron, Sirius, Regulus, Kreacher, Lupin, Harry, Scrimgeour
04/12/2010 10:55:34 PM
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Seconded. Righteous anger is more fun than whiny angst-anger. *NM*
06/12/2010 09:41:16 PM
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I'm not sure why we're supposed to be surprised about Scrimgeour.
06/12/2010 09:46:27 PM
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Two things about Mafalda Hopkirk.
06/12/2010 09:54:53 PM
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Weaving the plot, the writing, and thematic matters.
01/12/2010 11:43:25 PM
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The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
02/12/2010 09:14:21 AM
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Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
02/12/2010 02:12:29 PM
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Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
02/12/2010 02:35:06 PM
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Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
02/12/2010 04:16:14 PM
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And? And? And? *NM*
01/12/2010 11:43:46 PM
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Did we have a discussion for a previous book about how many wizarding schools there are?
04/12/2010 10:21:42 PM
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Re: Did we have a discussion for a previous book about how many wizarding schools there are?
04/12/2010 10:32:17 PM
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Chapters 13-15: The Muggle-Born Registration Commission, The Thief, The Goblin's Revenge *NM*
04/12/2010 11:01:25 AM
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Characters: Ministry members, the trio, Ted, Dean, Dirk, Goblins, Phineas Nigellus
04/12/2010 11:07:57 AM
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Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
04/12/2010 09:59:45 PM
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Re: Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
06/12/2010 10:41:08 PM
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Re: Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
06/12/2010 10:45:17 PM
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Plotting, writing, theming.
04/12/2010 11:08:47 AM
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Apparating and the fidelius charm, some good plotting and the food problem.
04/12/2010 10:01:16 PM
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Anything else? *NM*
04/12/2010 11:10:52 AM
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It may be a stretch, but with all the Nazi references, any WW2 reference is gonna catch my eye.
06/12/2010 10:09:04 PM
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Re: It may be a stretch, but with all the Nazi references, any WW2 reference is gonna catch my eye.
06/12/2010 10:17:42 PM
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Chapters 16-18: Godric's Hollow, Bathilda's Secret, The Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore
06/12/2010 09:57:00 PM
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Characters: Harry, Hermione, Bathilda, Dumbledore and others
06/12/2010 09:57:52 PM
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Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:02:13 PM
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Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:14:26 PM
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Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:18:15 PM
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Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:34:15 PM
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Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:36:18 PM
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Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:39:58 PM
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Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:42:27 PM
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I was interpreting it as sheer sexism, but you might be right.
07/12/2010 08:47:11 PM
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Re: I was interpreting it as sheer sexism, but you might be right.
07/12/2010 08:55:54 PM
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Lights! Camera! Action!
06/12/2010 09:59:52 PM
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But wait! There's more!
06/12/2010 10:00:34 PM
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Chapters 19-21: The Silver Doe, Xenophilius Lovegood, The Tale of the Three Brothers
08/12/2010 08:47:04 PM
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Characters: Harry, Hermione, Ron, Lovegood ... and not many more. *NM*
08/12/2010 08:49:28 PM
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Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
09/12/2010 12:01:57 AM
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Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
09/12/2010 03:04:11 PM
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Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
09/12/2010 08:03:05 PM
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Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
09/12/2010 11:48:08 PM
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Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
10/12/2010 08:44:01 PM
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Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
10/12/2010 09:00:44 PM
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Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
10/12/2010 09:16:48 PM
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Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
10/12/2010 09:19:38 PM
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Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
19/12/2010 06:58:04 PM
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Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
20/12/2010 09:36:17 AM
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What was that again about Hermione not being so good at thinking on her feet?
09/12/2010 07:52:23 PM
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Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
08/12/2010 08:50:53 PM
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Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
09/12/2010 12:04:37 AM
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Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
09/12/2010 03:25:53 PM
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I don't think it works that way. They aren't "used up".
09/12/2010 06:52:29 PM
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up up down down left right left right b a select start. look at me I have 99 horcruxes!
10/12/2010 04:19:56 AM
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They're not so annoying yet, now.
09/12/2010 06:56:46 PM
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Re: They're not so annoying yet, now.
09/12/2010 11:52:02 PM
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Plus, it totally cheapens ability and skill if you have some "magic (magic) wand".
10/12/2010 08:56:28 PM
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Re: Plus, it totally cheapens ability and skill if you have some "magic (magic) wand".
10/12/2010 08:59:41 PM
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Chapters 22-24: The Deathly Hallows, Malfoy Manor, The Wandmaker.
10/12/2010 09:11:32 PM
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Characters: The Trio, the Malfoys, Dobby, a number of others. *NM*
10/12/2010 09:12:30 PM
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Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
10/12/2010 11:23:09 PM
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Re: Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
13/12/2010 08:47:27 PM
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Re: Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
13/12/2010 09:26:58 PM
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On a side note about wands
14/12/2010 06:05:13 PM
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Yes, I've caught myself immaturely sniggering on occasion, too.
14/12/2010 08:59:26 PM
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Re: Yes, I've caught myself immaturely sniggering on occasion, too.
14/12/2010 09:04:43 PM
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Plot, writing, themes. *NM*
10/12/2010 09:13:37 PM
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An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
10/12/2010 11:24:05 PM
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Re: An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
20/12/2010 01:00:38 PM
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Re: An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
20/12/2010 07:32:48 PM
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Chapters 25-27: Shell Cottage, Gringotts, The Final Hiding Place
13/12/2010 10:03:15 PM
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Characters *NM*
13/12/2010 10:03:29 PM
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Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
14/12/2010 05:16:51 PM
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Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
14/12/2010 10:04:09 PM
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Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
14/12/2010 10:19:04 PM
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Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
14/12/2010 10:37:00 PM
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Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
14/12/2010 10:45:36 PM
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Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
20/12/2010 03:33:49 PM
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Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
20/12/2010 07:35:51 PM
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Plot, action, etc. *NM*
13/12/2010 10:04:02 PM
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red herring, fidelius charm information and full circle.
14/12/2010 05:17:11 PM
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Other things. *NM*
13/12/2010 10:04:23 PM
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Film stuff
14/12/2010 05:17:18 PM
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Excellent point.
14/12/2010 10:05:01 PM
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Re: Excellent point.
14/12/2010 10:09:53 PM
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Sometimes Rowling's parallels are far too simplistic and unsophisticated.
20/12/2010 03:39:50 PM
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Chapters 28-30: The Missing Mirror, The Lost Diadem, The Sacking of Severus Snape *NM*
16/12/2010 01:07:20 PM
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Characters *NM*
16/12/2010 01:07:31 PM
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Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
16/12/2010 11:52:46 PM
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Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
20/12/2010 05:16:13 PM
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Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
20/12/2010 11:02:45 PM
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Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
26/12/2010 08:43:03 PM
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Writing, action, plot, theme, yadda yadda yadda. *NM*
16/12/2010 01:08:04 PM
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red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
16/12/2010 11:53:56 PM
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Re: red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
20/12/2010 05:38:46 PM
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Re: red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
20/12/2010 11:06:01 PM
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Other things. *NM*
16/12/2010 01:08:25 PM
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Chapters 31-33: The Battle for Hogwarts, The Elder Wand, The Prince's Tale
19/12/2010 07:56:39 PM
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Characters: far too many to mention.
19/12/2010 07:58:41 PM
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Too many to mention, indeed.
20/12/2010 09:30:54 AM
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The action, and plot advancement and completion.
19/12/2010 08:00:09 PM
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memories, cinematic moments and parallels.
20/12/2010 09:32:27 AM
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Chapters 34-36: The Forest Again, King's Cross, The Flaw in the Plan
20/12/2010 07:31:27 PM
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Characters: Voldemort, Harry, Dumbledore, Ron, Hermione, et al.
20/12/2010 07:32:15 PM
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Harry, Dumbledore, Neville, the Malfoys, Molly and Voldemort
20/12/2010 11:28:19 PM
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Tying up the plot.
20/12/2010 07:33:00 PM
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Narnia, blood, revenge of the downtrodden, sacrifice, plans and souls
20/12/2010 11:29:44 PM
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Epilogue: the future.
20/12/2010 07:35:06 PM
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