None of the other books have these, so I think it is worth our while to look at them at least a little bit. I confess I am more familiar with Aeschylos than Penn, and this piece is from the period just before Orestes kills his mother to avenge his father. While the whole vengeance theme is obviously something the two texts have in common, there isn't all that much else that comes to mind. There is of course the problematic nature of killing in the Harry Potter universe, which we have discussed before: Orestes, by avenging his father, is haunted by the furies for the killing of his mother, but is ultimately freed from them. Similarly, Harry, by killing Voldemort, must lose part of his soul. The fact that this does not seem to happen is perhaps the most problematic part of the book (and I say this having read it only a couple of times and therefore having a somewhat a very vague notion that there is no way Harry can regret killing Voldemort -- we can perhaps discuss this later on). Perhaps this is a way of pointing out why this must be so, that the person who brings things back to order, to the way they were supposed to be, cannot be punished for doing the right thing because you cannot regret that? Am I confusing everyone?
But it is also fun to look at the words alone, without the Greek context, but introduced into the new one of Harry Potter. I am not sure who the dark gods would be, but the grief, the curse, the scream of death, all fit very well within this last book, if not all the foregoing. I am also terribly tempted to read the "torment bred in the race" as a sly kick at the pureblood nutters, but that may be taking it too far.
"Bless the children, give them triumph now" obviously resonates with (I assume) how we all felt when we first picked up the book? I know I was excited beyond words, waiting for the children to finally kick some Voldemort [euphemism].
Penn sounds like Dumbledore.
But it is also fun to look at the words alone, without the Greek context, but introduced into the new one of Harry Potter. I am not sure who the dark gods would be, but the grief, the curse, the scream of death, all fit very well within this last book, if not all the foregoing. I am also terribly tempted to read the "torment bred in the race" as a sly kick at the pureblood nutters, but that may be taking it too far.
"Bless the children, give them triumph now" obviously resonates with (I assume) how we all felt when we first picked up the book? I know I was excited beyond words, waiting for the children to finally kick some Voldemort [euphemism].
Penn sounds like Dumbledore.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
structured procrastinator
The Great Harry Potter Re-read: Book 7 - The Deathly Hallows
- 24/11/2010 07:47:44 PM
6341 Views
Suggestions - tell us what we could do better for this final discussion.
- 24/11/2010 07:48:22 PM
2610 Views
The series as a whole: overall thoughts about the Harry Potter universe and all it contains
- 24/11/2010 07:49:21 PM
2641 Views
Overall thoughts for The Deathly Hallows
- 24/11/2010 07:50:12 PM
2678 Views
This might be the only book other than the first where I actually like Harry.
- 30/11/2010 03:13:25 PM
2579 Views
Argh, I keep mixing everything up with the movie!
- 04/12/2010 03:45:24 PM
2808 Views
Re: Argh, I keep mixing everything up with the movie!
- 04/12/2010 10:33:03 PM
2739 Views
Going all the way back to the beginning in a number of ways, all of them so far excellent.
- 07/12/2010 10:19:33 PM
2798 Views
Having finished it again... it's good, at times great, but not the best book in the series, imho.
- 26/12/2010 08:19:47 PM
2825 Views
Chapters 1-3: The Dark Lord Ascending, In Memorian, The Dursleys Departing.
- 24/11/2010 07:51:29 PM
2749 Views
Characters: Voldemort, the Death Eaters, Harry, Dodge, Dumbledore, Skeeter & the Dursleys
- 24/11/2010 07:52:55 PM
2793 Views
Snape, Draco, Lucius, Narcissa, Bellatrix, Harry, Ms Burbage, Dumbledore, and the Dursleys.
- 24/11/2010 11:46:16 PM
2853 Views
Draco, female Death Eaters, Dumbledore.
- 25/11/2010 04:44:36 PM
2929 Views
Re: Draco, female Death Eaters, Dumbledore.
- 25/11/2010 04:53:25 PM
2780 Views
As Katie said, the husband is still around.
- 26/11/2010 10:56:30 AM
2766 Views
Re: Charity Burbage
- 25/11/2010 06:47:43 PM
2779 Views
Re: Charity Burbage
- 25/11/2010 06:48:52 PM
2696 Views
Dudley
- 30/11/2010 03:16:25 PM
2609 Views
Agreed, but she just went overboard too far early on for it to be credible now.
- 06/12/2010 08:44:48 PM
2814 Views
Plotting, writing, early themes.
- 24/11/2010 07:53:33 PM
2695 Views
Anything else? *NM*
- 24/11/2010 07:53:46 PM
1247 Views
The epigraphs.
- 24/11/2010 10:06:58 PM
2911 Views
other stuff
- 24/11/2010 11:47:54 PM
2576 Views
I've always thought Rowling went overboard with the Nazi links.
- 25/11/2010 04:26:58 PM
2513 Views
Re: I've always thought Rowling went overboard with the Nazi links.
- 27/11/2010 01:20:44 AM
2620 Views
Chapters 4-6: The Seven Potters, The Fallen Warrior, The Ghoul in Pyjamas *NM*
- 26/11/2010 07:27:53 PM
1372 Views
Characters: Harry, the Order, Hedwig, Mr & Mrs Tonks, Voldemort, etc
- 26/11/2010 07:29:48 PM
2718 Views
Harry, the twins, Mr and Mrs Tonks, Lupin, Mr and Mrs Weasley, Scrimgeour and Hermione
- 27/11/2010 11:56:17 AM
2961 Views
Re: Harry, the twins, Mr and Mrs Tonks, Lupin, Mr and Mrs Weasley, Scrimgeour and Hermione
- 30/11/2010 02:52:12 PM
2898 Views
The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things.
- 26/11/2010 07:30:35 PM
2533 Views
Re: The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things.
- 27/11/2010 11:59:36 AM
2936 Views
Yes, Dumbledore gives a very complex answer about the wand thing
- 01/12/2010 08:44:57 PM
2559 Views
Any other thoughts? *NM*
- 26/11/2010 07:30:49 PM
1383 Views
Chapters 7-9: The Will of Albus Dumbledore, The Wedding, A Place to Hide
- 29/11/2010 06:39:52 PM
2544 Views
The characters: usual suspects, Scrimgeour, Doge, Krum, Luna, Xenophilius, etc.
- 29/11/2010 06:41:41 PM
2668 Views
I just realized something about Krum.
- 06/12/2010 09:00:28 PM
2586 Views
The action.
- 29/11/2010 06:42:10 PM
2527 Views
Hermione and obliviate.
- 30/11/2010 02:23:51 PM
2578 Views
Re: Hermione and obliviate.
- 30/11/2010 03:24:06 PM
2643 Views
I think this was a Rowling mistake. It happens
- 01/12/2010 08:32:25 PM
2659 Views
Agreed, though a rather blatant one that someone should have caught... *NM*
- 06/12/2010 08:18:58 PM
1330 Views
Kreacher quoting Regulus raises an interesting point...
- 06/12/2010 08:33:02 PM
2795 Views
Er, I posted this in the wrong place. That's what I get when I try to catch up.
Sorry. *NM*
- 06/12/2010 08:34:06 PM
1376 Views
Sorry. *NM*
- 06/12/2010 08:34:06 PM
1376 Views
Please, sir, may I have some more? *NM*
- 29/11/2010 06:44:14 PM
1301 Views
I love the use of Patronuses (Patroni?) as messengers.
- 30/11/2010 02:59:04 PM
2653 Views
Chapters 10-12: Kreacher's Tale, The Bribe, Magic is Might
- 01/12/2010 11:41:40 PM
2552 Views
Characters: more of the trio, Kreacher, Mundungus, RAB and Umbridge
- 01/12/2010 11:42:34 PM
2542 Views
Hermione and Ron, Sirius, Regulus, Kreacher, Lupin, Harry, Scrimgeour
- 02/12/2010 09:11:21 AM
2831 Views
Re: Hermione and Ron, Sirius, Regulus, Kreacher, Lupin, Harry, Scrimgeour
- 04/12/2010 10:55:34 PM
2864 Views
Seconded. Righteous anger is more fun than whiny angst-anger. *NM*
- 06/12/2010 09:41:16 PM
1323 Views
I'm not sure why we're supposed to be surprised about Scrimgeour.
- 06/12/2010 09:46:27 PM
2862 Views
Two things about Mafalda Hopkirk.
- 06/12/2010 09:54:53 PM
2636 Views
Weaving the plot, the writing, and thematic matters.
- 01/12/2010 11:43:25 PM
2647 Views
The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 09:14:21 AM
2677 Views
Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 02:12:29 PM
2735 Views
Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 02:35:06 PM
2490 Views
Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 04:16:14 PM
2745 Views
And? And? And? *NM*
- 01/12/2010 11:43:46 PM
1362 Views
Did we have a discussion for a previous book about how many wizarding schools there are?
- 04/12/2010 10:21:42 PM
2745 Views
Re: Did we have a discussion for a previous book about how many wizarding schools there are?
- 04/12/2010 10:32:17 PM
2637 Views
Chapters 13-15: The Muggle-Born Registration Commission, The Thief, The Goblin's Revenge *NM*
- 04/12/2010 11:01:25 AM
1489 Views
Characters: Ministry members, the trio, Ted, Dean, Dirk, Goblins, Phineas Nigellus
- 04/12/2010 11:07:57 AM
2627 Views
Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
- 04/12/2010 09:59:45 PM
2851 Views
Re: Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
- 06/12/2010 10:41:08 PM
2773 Views
Re: Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
- 06/12/2010 10:45:17 PM
2671 Views
Plotting, writing, theming.
- 04/12/2010 11:08:47 AM
2803 Views
Apparating and the fidelius charm, some good plotting and the food problem.
- 04/12/2010 10:01:16 PM
2847 Views
Anything else? *NM*
- 04/12/2010 11:10:52 AM
1382 Views
It may be a stretch, but with all the Nazi references, any WW2 reference is gonna catch my eye.
- 06/12/2010 10:09:04 PM
2628 Views
Re: It may be a stretch, but with all the Nazi references, any WW2 reference is gonna catch my eye.
- 06/12/2010 10:17:42 PM
2600 Views
Chapters 16-18: Godric's Hollow, Bathilda's Secret, The Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore
- 06/12/2010 09:57:00 PM
2628 Views
Characters: Harry, Hermione, Bathilda, Dumbledore and others
- 06/12/2010 09:57:52 PM
2788 Views
Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:02:13 PM
2766 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:14:26 PM
2831 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:18:15 PM
2962 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:34:15 PM
2621 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:36:18 PM
2660 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:39:58 PM
2873 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:42:27 PM
2578 Views
I was interpreting it as sheer sexism, but you might be right.
- 07/12/2010 08:47:11 PM
2629 Views
Re: I was interpreting it as sheer sexism, but you might be right.
- 07/12/2010 08:55:54 PM
2591 Views
Lights! Camera! Action!
- 06/12/2010 09:59:52 PM
2605 Views
But wait! There's more!
- 06/12/2010 10:00:34 PM
2615 Views
Chapters 19-21: The Silver Doe, Xenophilius Lovegood, The Tale of the Three Brothers
- 08/12/2010 08:47:04 PM
2642 Views
Characters: Harry, Hermione, Ron, Lovegood ... and not many more. *NM*
- 08/12/2010 08:49:28 PM
1413 Views
Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 12:01:57 AM
2775 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 03:04:11 PM
2815 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 08:03:05 PM
2713 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 11:48:08 PM
2876 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 08:44:01 PM
2720 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 09:00:44 PM
2656 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 09:16:48 PM
2670 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 09:19:38 PM
2638 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 19/12/2010 06:58:04 PM
2616 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 20/12/2010 09:36:17 AM
2690 Views
What was that again about Hermione not being so good at thinking on her feet?
- 09/12/2010 07:52:23 PM
2635 Views
Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
- 08/12/2010 08:50:53 PM
2753 Views
Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
- 09/12/2010 12:04:37 AM
2692 Views
Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
- 09/12/2010 03:25:53 PM
2747 Views
I don't think it works that way. They aren't "used up".
- 09/12/2010 06:52:29 PM
2576 Views
up up down down left right left right b a select start. look at me I have 99 horcruxes!
- 10/12/2010 04:19:56 AM
2360 Views
- 10/12/2010 04:19:56 AM
2360 Views
They're not so annoying yet, now.
- 09/12/2010 06:56:46 PM
2530 Views
Re: They're not so annoying yet, now.
- 09/12/2010 11:52:02 PM
2700 Views
Plus, it totally cheapens ability and skill if you have some "magic (magic) wand".
- 10/12/2010 08:56:28 PM
2688 Views
- 10/12/2010 08:56:28 PM
2688 Views
Re: Plus, it totally cheapens ability and skill if you have some "magic (magic) wand".
- 10/12/2010 08:59:41 PM
2802 Views
- 10/12/2010 08:59:41 PM
2802 Views
Chapters 22-24: The Deathly Hallows, Malfoy Manor, The Wandmaker.
- 10/12/2010 09:11:32 PM
2519 Views
Characters: The Trio, the Malfoys, Dobby, a number of others. *NM*
- 10/12/2010 09:12:30 PM
1397 Views
Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
- 10/12/2010 11:23:09 PM
2897 Views
Re: Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
- 13/12/2010 08:47:27 PM
2686 Views
Re: Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
- 13/12/2010 09:26:58 PM
2890 Views
On a side note about wands
- 14/12/2010 06:05:13 PM
2671 Views
Yes, I've caught myself immaturely sniggering on occasion, too.
- 14/12/2010 08:59:26 PM
2704 Views
- 14/12/2010 08:59:26 PM
2704 Views
Re: Yes, I've caught myself immaturely sniggering on occasion, too.
- 14/12/2010 09:04:43 PM
2751 Views
- 14/12/2010 09:04:43 PM
2751 Views
Plot, writing, themes. *NM*
- 10/12/2010 09:13:37 PM
1362 Views
An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
- 10/12/2010 11:24:05 PM
2537 Views
Re: An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
- 20/12/2010 01:00:38 PM
2736 Views
Re: An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
- 20/12/2010 07:32:48 PM
2738 Views
Chapters 25-27: Shell Cottage, Gringotts, The Final Hiding Place
- 13/12/2010 10:03:15 PM
2575 Views
Characters *NM*
- 13/12/2010 10:03:29 PM
1335 Views
Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 05:16:51 PM
2742 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:04:09 PM
2714 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:19:04 PM
2793 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:37:00 PM
2639 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:45:36 PM
2773 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 20/12/2010 03:33:49 PM
2806 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 20/12/2010 07:35:51 PM
2961 Views
Plot, action, etc. *NM*
- 13/12/2010 10:04:02 PM
1319 Views
red herring, fidelius charm information and full circle.
- 14/12/2010 05:17:11 PM
2545 Views
Other things. *NM*
- 13/12/2010 10:04:23 PM
1251 Views
Film stuff
- 14/12/2010 05:17:18 PM
2590 Views
Excellent point.
- 14/12/2010 10:05:01 PM
2584 Views
Re: Excellent point.
- 14/12/2010 10:09:53 PM
2609 Views
Sometimes Rowling's parallels are far too simplistic and unsophisticated.
- 20/12/2010 03:39:50 PM
2611 Views
Chapters 28-30: The Missing Mirror, The Lost Diadem, The Sacking of Severus Snape *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:07:20 PM
1367 Views
Characters *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:07:31 PM
1299 Views
Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 16/12/2010 11:52:46 PM
2866 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 20/12/2010 05:16:13 PM
2672 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 20/12/2010 11:02:45 PM
2696 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 26/12/2010 08:43:03 PM
2712 Views
Writing, action, plot, theme, yadda yadda yadda. *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:08:04 PM
1347 Views
red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
- 16/12/2010 11:53:56 PM
2674 Views
Re: red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
- 20/12/2010 05:38:46 PM
2641 Views
Re: red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
- 20/12/2010 11:06:01 PM
2887 Views
Other things. *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:08:25 PM
1363 Views
Chapters 31-33: The Battle for Hogwarts, The Elder Wand, The Prince's Tale
- 19/12/2010 07:56:39 PM
2633 Views
Characters: far too many to mention.
- 19/12/2010 07:58:41 PM
2530 Views
Too many to mention, indeed.
- 20/12/2010 09:30:54 AM
2926 Views
The action, and plot advancement and completion.
- 19/12/2010 08:00:09 PM
2670 Views
memories, cinematic moments and parallels.
- 20/12/2010 09:32:27 AM
2466 Views
Chapters 34-36: The Forest Again, King's Cross, The Flaw in the Plan
- 20/12/2010 07:31:27 PM
2533 Views
Characters: Voldemort, Harry, Dumbledore, Ron, Hermione, et al.
- 20/12/2010 07:32:15 PM
2592 Views
Harry, Dumbledore, Neville, the Malfoys, Molly and Voldemort
- 20/12/2010 11:28:19 PM
2703 Views
Tying up the plot.
- 20/12/2010 07:33:00 PM
2542 Views
Narnia, blood, revenge of the downtrodden, sacrifice, plans and souls
- 20/12/2010 11:29:44 PM
2676 Views
Epilogue: the future.
- 20/12/2010 07:35:06 PM
2627 Views

