Dumbledore: I like how Dumbledore is made human here. His regrets and how his rejection of power is founded in a belief that he cannot be trusted with it. I am not sure it is justified, as power does not seem to have been his main goal even as he was teaming up with Grindewald.
That's a good point. And I liked the previously suggested reasons for his refusal to become Minister better.
Although the Malfoys should perhaps be mentioned. They have shown themselves as surprisingly loving parents throughout (especially considering the scenes in earlier books where Draco's relationship with his father, especially, seems to be characterised by a lack of (demonstrated, at any rate) love. I like how Narcissa saves Harry to save Draco, and how the Malfoys cannot be bothered with the fighting once they are inside the castle. It would be too much of a stretch to have them fight on the side of Good, and I prefer this rejection of sides at all in favour of finding their son.
Agreed with that. One gets the impression that the balance of power in the family has shifted, Narcissa being in the lead now and Lucius following, and that has its consequences in what they do.
Yes, I think you are right.
And Molly. It was mentioned earlier that Molly has become a sort of housewifey caricature character when in earlier times she would have been both competent and courageous. I like that this resurfaces in this final battle. Yes, her provocation is an attack on her one daughter (which brings back up Ron's suspicions), but her competency is unquestionable, as the woman who could easily fend off Hermione, Luna and Ginny in one go is suddenly forced to concentrate.
Well, see, it is in itself defensible that a grown woman is indeed more of a force to be reckoned with than three schoolgirls, even when those three schoolgirls are rather good for their age. It is possible to say, look here, Ginny may be redoubtable and all, but that's only by schoolgirl standards. Unfortunately, considering that the entirety of book seven consists of three schoolkids doing everything by themselves, ignoring the adults and carrying the day, it feels rather inconsistent to suddenly give such weight to adult experience now. It would have been far more credible if 1) Molly had defeated Bellatrix with a quick lucky shot, 2) Molly had defeated Bellatrix with the aid of the girls, or of course 3) Bellatrix had summarily defeated or even killed Molly.
So, yeah, I still really don't like it. That she throws herself into that fight, absolutely; that she is better than the three girls combined and defeats Bellatrix in a fair fight, absolutely not.
I really disagree. My point is precisely that Molly is not just a grown woman, which is what she has been presented as throughout the series. That is what I referred to with the housewifey caricature comment. She is presented as someone whose main character trait is that she is an adult with children. But she was a member of the Order in her own right when she was young. So it is not a matter of experience trumping ability. It is the two together. Plus determination to protect her own -- and it has already been established that feelings affect spells (I'm thinking of the crucio spell). The one thing I find a little problematic is that she would tell everyone to not participate, as it would make sense to get as much help as possible, but I suppose that is covered by the protecting the young trait which has been presented as her main one.
Voldemort: I was intrigued by his reaction to Bellatrix' death. Considering his attitude to her lately, I would not have expected him to care. It must be a result of everyone else having fallen, but even so that reaction seems uncharacteristic.
I suppose he does appreciate having a fiercely loyal psycho by his side who hangs on his every word?
To be fair, who wouldn't?
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
structured procrastinator
The Great Harry Potter Re-read: Book 7 - The Deathly Hallows
24/11/2010 07:47:44 PM
- 3698 Views
Suggestions - tell us what we could do better for this final discussion.
24/11/2010 07:48:22 PM
- 1583 Views
The series as a whole: overall thoughts about the Harry Potter universe and all it contains
24/11/2010 07:49:21 PM
- 1638 Views
Overall thoughts for The Deathly Hallows
24/11/2010 07:50:12 PM
- 1707 Views
This might be the only book other than the first where I actually like Harry.
30/11/2010 03:13:25 PM
- 1608 Views
Argh, I keep mixing everything up with the movie!
04/12/2010 03:45:24 PM
- 1745 Views
Re: Argh, I keep mixing everything up with the movie!
04/12/2010 10:33:03 PM
- 1758 Views
Going all the way back to the beginning in a number of ways, all of them so far excellent.
07/12/2010 10:19:33 PM
- 1786 Views
Having finished it again... it's good, at times great, but not the best book in the series, imho.
26/12/2010 08:19:47 PM
- 1846 Views
Chapters 1-3: The Dark Lord Ascending, In Memorian, The Dursleys Departing.
24/11/2010 07:51:29 PM
- 1708 Views
Characters: Voldemort, the Death Eaters, Harry, Dodge, Dumbledore, Skeeter & the Dursleys
24/11/2010 07:52:55 PM
- 1734 Views
Snape, Draco, Lucius, Narcissa, Bellatrix, Harry, Ms Burbage, Dumbledore, and the Dursleys.
24/11/2010 11:46:16 PM
- 1837 Views
Draco, female Death Eaters, Dumbledore.
25/11/2010 04:44:36 PM
- 1873 Views
Re: Draco, female Death Eaters, Dumbledore.
25/11/2010 04:53:25 PM
- 1764 Views
As Katie said, the husband is still around.
26/11/2010 10:56:30 AM
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Re: Charity Burbage
25/11/2010 06:47:43 PM
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Re: Charity Burbage
25/11/2010 06:48:52 PM
- 1612 Views
Dudley
30/11/2010 03:16:25 PM
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Agreed, but she just went overboard too far early on for it to be credible now.
06/12/2010 08:44:48 PM
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Plotting, writing, early themes.
24/11/2010 07:53:33 PM
- 1688 Views
Anything else? *NM*
24/11/2010 07:53:46 PM
- 733 Views
other stuff
24/11/2010 11:47:54 PM
- 1558 Views
I've always thought Rowling went overboard with the Nazi links.
25/11/2010 04:26:58 PM
- 1570 Views
Re: I've always thought Rowling went overboard with the Nazi links.
27/11/2010 01:20:44 AM
- 1648 Views
Chapters 4-6: The Seven Potters, The Fallen Warrior, The Ghoul in Pyjamas *NM*
26/11/2010 07:27:53 PM
- 842 Views
Characters: Harry, the Order, Hedwig, Mr & Mrs Tonks, Voldemort, etc
26/11/2010 07:29:48 PM
- 1687 Views
Harry, the twins, Mr and Mrs Tonks, Lupin, Mr and Mrs Weasley, Scrimgeour and Hermione
27/11/2010 11:56:17 AM
- 1979 Views
Re: Harry, the twins, Mr and Mrs Tonks, Lupin, Mr and Mrs Weasley, Scrimgeour and Hermione
30/11/2010 02:52:12 PM
- 1831 Views
The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things.
26/11/2010 07:30:35 PM
- 1565 Views
Re: The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things.
27/11/2010 11:59:36 AM
- 1888 Views
Yes, Dumbledore gives a very complex answer about the wand thing
01/12/2010 08:44:57 PM
- 1560 Views
Any other thoughts? *NM*
26/11/2010 07:30:49 PM
- 831 Views
Chapters 7-9: The Will of Albus Dumbledore, The Wedding, A Place to Hide
29/11/2010 06:39:52 PM
- 1536 Views
The characters: usual suspects, Scrimgeour, Doge, Krum, Luna, Xenophilius, etc.
29/11/2010 06:41:41 PM
- 1639 Views
I just realized something about Krum.
06/12/2010 09:00:28 PM
- 1609 Views
The action.
29/11/2010 06:42:10 PM
- 1535 Views
Hermione and obliviate.
30/11/2010 02:23:51 PM
- 1615 Views
Re: Hermione and obliviate.
30/11/2010 03:24:06 PM
- 1664 Views
I think this was a Rowling mistake. It happens
01/12/2010 08:32:25 PM
- 1678 Views
Agreed, though a rather blatant one that someone should have caught... *NM*
06/12/2010 08:18:58 PM
- 832 Views
Kreacher quoting Regulus raises an interesting point...
06/12/2010 08:33:02 PM
- 1795 Views
Er, I posted this in the wrong place. That's what I get when I try to catch up. Sorry. *NM*
06/12/2010 08:34:06 PM
- 867 Views
Please, sir, may I have some more? *NM*
29/11/2010 06:44:14 PM
- 796 Views
I love the use of Patronuses (Patroni?) as messengers.
30/11/2010 02:59:04 PM
- 1666 Views
Chapters 10-12: Kreacher's Tale, The Bribe, Magic is Might
01/12/2010 11:41:40 PM
- 1513 Views
Characters: more of the trio, Kreacher, Mundungus, RAB and Umbridge
01/12/2010 11:42:34 PM
- 1559 Views
Hermione and Ron, Sirius, Regulus, Kreacher, Lupin, Harry, Scrimgeour
02/12/2010 09:11:21 AM
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Re: Hermione and Ron, Sirius, Regulus, Kreacher, Lupin, Harry, Scrimgeour
04/12/2010 10:55:34 PM
- 1818 Views
Seconded. Righteous anger is more fun than whiny angst-anger. *NM*
06/12/2010 09:41:16 PM
- 803 Views
I'm not sure why we're supposed to be surprised about Scrimgeour.
06/12/2010 09:46:27 PM
- 1850 Views
Two things about Mafalda Hopkirk.
06/12/2010 09:54:53 PM
- 1638 Views
Weaving the plot, the writing, and thematic matters.
01/12/2010 11:43:25 PM
- 1674 Views
The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
02/12/2010 09:14:21 AM
- 1727 Views
Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
02/12/2010 02:12:29 PM
- 1737 Views
Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
02/12/2010 02:35:06 PM
- 1459 Views
Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
02/12/2010 04:16:14 PM
- 1782 Views
And? And? And? *NM*
01/12/2010 11:43:46 PM
- 839 Views
Did we have a discussion for a previous book about how many wizarding schools there are?
04/12/2010 10:21:42 PM
- 1765 Views
Re: Did we have a discussion for a previous book about how many wizarding schools there are?
04/12/2010 10:32:17 PM
- 1660 Views
Chapters 13-15: The Muggle-Born Registration Commission, The Thief, The Goblin's Revenge *NM*
04/12/2010 11:01:25 AM
- 991 Views
Characters: Ministry members, the trio, Ted, Dean, Dirk, Goblins, Phineas Nigellus
04/12/2010 11:07:57 AM
- 1648 Views
Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
04/12/2010 09:59:45 PM
- 1846 Views
Re: Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
06/12/2010 10:41:08 PM
- 1810 Views
Re: Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
06/12/2010 10:45:17 PM
- 1708 Views
Plotting, writing, theming.
04/12/2010 11:08:47 AM
- 1810 Views
Apparating and the fidelius charm, some good plotting and the food problem.
04/12/2010 10:01:16 PM
- 1828 Views
Anything else? *NM*
04/12/2010 11:10:52 AM
- 876 Views
It may be a stretch, but with all the Nazi references, any WW2 reference is gonna catch my eye.
06/12/2010 10:09:04 PM
- 1664 Views
Re: It may be a stretch, but with all the Nazi references, any WW2 reference is gonna catch my eye.
06/12/2010 10:17:42 PM
- 1600 Views
Chapters 16-18: Godric's Hollow, Bathilda's Secret, The Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore
06/12/2010 09:57:00 PM
- 1646 Views
Characters: Harry, Hermione, Bathilda, Dumbledore and others
06/12/2010 09:57:52 PM
- 1748 Views
Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:02:13 PM
- 1785 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:14:26 PM
- 1852 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:18:15 PM
- 1935 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:34:15 PM
- 1631 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:36:18 PM
- 1661 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:39:58 PM
- 1927 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
06/12/2010 10:42:27 PM
- 1521 Views
I was interpreting it as sheer sexism, but you might be right.
07/12/2010 08:47:11 PM
- 1538 Views
Re: I was interpreting it as sheer sexism, but you might be right.
07/12/2010 08:55:54 PM
- 1589 Views
Lights! Camera! Action!
06/12/2010 09:59:52 PM
- 1638 Views
But wait! There's more!
06/12/2010 10:00:34 PM
- 1602 Views
Chapters 19-21: The Silver Doe, Xenophilius Lovegood, The Tale of the Three Brothers
08/12/2010 08:47:04 PM
- 1687 Views
Characters: Harry, Hermione, Ron, Lovegood ... and not many more. *NM*
08/12/2010 08:49:28 PM
- 897 Views
Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
09/12/2010 12:01:57 AM
- 1776 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
09/12/2010 03:04:11 PM
- 1807 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
09/12/2010 08:03:05 PM
- 1678 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
09/12/2010 11:48:08 PM
- 1881 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
10/12/2010 08:44:01 PM
- 1713 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
10/12/2010 09:00:44 PM
- 1638 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
10/12/2010 09:16:48 PM
- 1627 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
10/12/2010 09:19:38 PM
- 1640 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
19/12/2010 06:58:04 PM
- 1589 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
20/12/2010 09:36:17 AM
- 1614 Views
What was that again about Hermione not being so good at thinking on her feet?
09/12/2010 07:52:23 PM
- 1682 Views
Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
08/12/2010 08:50:53 PM
- 1758 Views
Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
09/12/2010 12:04:37 AM
- 1640 Views
Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
09/12/2010 03:25:53 PM
- 1634 Views
I don't think it works that way. They aren't "used up".
09/12/2010 06:52:29 PM
- 1612 Views
up up down down left right left right b a select start. look at me I have 99 horcruxes!
10/12/2010 04:19:56 AM
- 1336 Views
They're not so annoying yet, now.
09/12/2010 06:56:46 PM
- 1535 Views
Re: They're not so annoying yet, now.
09/12/2010 11:52:02 PM
- 1742 Views
Plus, it totally cheapens ability and skill if you have some "magic (magic) wand".
10/12/2010 08:56:28 PM
- 1653 Views
Re: Plus, it totally cheapens ability and skill if you have some "magic (magic) wand".
10/12/2010 08:59:41 PM
- 1765 Views
Chapters 22-24: The Deathly Hallows, Malfoy Manor, The Wandmaker.
10/12/2010 09:11:32 PM
- 1546 Views
Characters: The Trio, the Malfoys, Dobby, a number of others. *NM*
10/12/2010 09:12:30 PM
- 867 Views
Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
10/12/2010 11:23:09 PM
- 1847 Views
Re: Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
13/12/2010 08:47:27 PM
- 1669 Views
Re: Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
13/12/2010 09:26:58 PM
- 1865 Views
On a side note about wands
14/12/2010 06:05:13 PM
- 1701 Views
Yes, I've caught myself immaturely sniggering on occasion, too.
14/12/2010 08:59:26 PM
- 1713 Views
Re: Yes, I've caught myself immaturely sniggering on occasion, too.
14/12/2010 09:04:43 PM
- 1772 Views
Plot, writing, themes. *NM*
10/12/2010 09:13:37 PM
- 859 Views
An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
10/12/2010 11:24:05 PM
- 1586 Views
Re: An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
20/12/2010 01:00:38 PM
- 1737 Views
Re: An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
20/12/2010 07:32:48 PM
- 1759 Views
Chapters 25-27: Shell Cottage, Gringotts, The Final Hiding Place
13/12/2010 10:03:15 PM
- 1561 Views
Characters *NM*
13/12/2010 10:03:29 PM
- 815 Views
Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
14/12/2010 05:16:51 PM
- 1727 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
14/12/2010 10:04:09 PM
- 1690 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
14/12/2010 10:19:04 PM
- 1757 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
14/12/2010 10:37:00 PM
- 1634 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
14/12/2010 10:45:36 PM
- 1760 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
20/12/2010 03:33:49 PM
- 1780 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
20/12/2010 07:35:51 PM
- 1952 Views
Plot, action, etc. *NM*
13/12/2010 10:04:02 PM
- 815 Views
red herring, fidelius charm information and full circle.
14/12/2010 05:17:11 PM
- 1504 Views
Other things. *NM*
13/12/2010 10:04:23 PM
- 724 Views
Film stuff
14/12/2010 05:17:18 PM
- 1585 Views
Excellent point.
14/12/2010 10:05:01 PM
- 1568 Views
Re: Excellent point.
14/12/2010 10:09:53 PM
- 1603 Views
Sometimes Rowling's parallels are far too simplistic and unsophisticated.
20/12/2010 03:39:50 PM
- 1601 Views
Chapters 28-30: The Missing Mirror, The Lost Diadem, The Sacking of Severus Snape *NM*
16/12/2010 01:07:20 PM
- 858 Views
Characters *NM*
16/12/2010 01:07:31 PM
- 795 Views
Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
16/12/2010 11:52:46 PM
- 1856 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
20/12/2010 05:16:13 PM
- 1711 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
20/12/2010 11:02:45 PM
- 1691 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
26/12/2010 08:43:03 PM
- 1698 Views
Writing, action, plot, theme, yadda yadda yadda. *NM*
16/12/2010 01:08:04 PM
- 814 Views
red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
16/12/2010 11:53:56 PM
- 1683 Views
Re: red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
20/12/2010 05:38:46 PM
- 1671 Views
Re: red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
20/12/2010 11:06:01 PM
- 1844 Views
Other things. *NM*
16/12/2010 01:08:25 PM
- 833 Views
Chapters 31-33: The Battle for Hogwarts, The Elder Wand, The Prince's Tale
19/12/2010 07:56:39 PM
- 1650 Views
Characters: far too many to mention.
19/12/2010 07:58:41 PM
- 1530 Views
Too many to mention, indeed.
20/12/2010 09:30:54 AM
- 1863 Views
The action, and plot advancement and completion.
19/12/2010 08:00:09 PM
- 1675 Views
memories, cinematic moments and parallels.
20/12/2010 09:32:27 AM
- 1438 Views
Chapters 34-36: The Forest Again, King's Cross, The Flaw in the Plan
20/12/2010 07:31:27 PM
- 1542 Views
Characters: Voldemort, Harry, Dumbledore, Ron, Hermione, et al.
20/12/2010 07:32:15 PM
- 1559 Views
Harry, Dumbledore, Neville, the Malfoys, Molly and Voldemort
20/12/2010 11:28:19 PM
- 1702 Views
The Malfoys and Molly
01/01/2011 10:55:28 PM
- 1780 Views
Re: The Malfoys and Molly
02/01/2011 10:35:47 AM
- 1791 Views
Tying up the plot.
20/12/2010 07:33:00 PM
- 1544 Views
Narnia, blood, revenge of the downtrodden, sacrifice, plans and souls
20/12/2010 11:29:44 PM
- 1671 Views
Epilogue: the future.
20/12/2010 07:35:06 PM
- 1657 Views