Re: Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
Camilla Send a noteboard - 13/12/2010 09:26:58 PM
Hermione: as Legolas pointed out, her handling of the crisis at the Lovegoods' was really very impressive. It is perfect thinking in a dangerous situation. I think this is an indication of something wider. All three of them have changed drastically during the first half of this book. Hermione has learnt to think on her feet (as we see again when they are taken by the Snatchers), Harry suddenly starts being right about things, and Ron grows unselfish and courageous.
It's becoming quite a streak, in fact, when you add her timely modification of Harry's face and her keeping her act up under Bellatrix' Cruciatus. It's interesting that while Hermione is developing into a kick-ass heroine in the best Willow tradition, Harry somehow manages to become less dependent on her rather than more (at least to get things done and figure out what to do; emotionally, I guess he relies more on her than before). Similar story with Ron.
Indeed.
Harry: trying to sound robustly sane after realising he has scared Hermione with his talk of living with dead people is another good moment for him (like the chivalry one). I like it. His moment of seeing how it all fits together also appeals to me. For once I empathise entirely with him. That is a rare experience. It also demonstrates Dumbledore's wisdom in not telling him about the Hallows and the wand, and not making the ring readily available: he gets carried away with the potential power, and then must learn to put that aside.
I'm not entirely convinced there. Even if I forget my disgust with the Hallows for a moment, you have to say Dumbledore does leave a lot to chance if he really wants Harry to use the Hallows against Voldemort.
I am not sure the Hallows would be crucial. They are merely a help along the way. Not the deciding factor. The crucial bit is that Voldemort cannot control the wand he has taken.
I am also very impressed with his negotiation with Griphook and his reasoning as to why Gringott's would be ideal. Combined with the revelation that he must go after horcruxes, not hallows, this completes the second part of the strange transformation of Harry in this book. I think I'd argue the final part comes with being willing to die.
Hard to argue with that.
Lupin:
' /> Have I mentioned how he is wonderful?
' /> Have I mentioned how he is wonderful?You have.
He's a good guy, always has been, so he was always going to come to his senses eventually.
He's a good guy, always has been, so he was always going to come to his senses eventually. So lovely

Greyback: He is quite an interesting character. He is not allowed full participation. I can see why he chose to side with Voldemort, but I am not sure that his subservient position here is any better than the subservient position in normal wizarding society. With the exception, perhaps, that there are more people beneath him here. I suppose that counts for something.
For someone who loves mauling people and turning them into werewolves, it definitely does.
How do you get into that hobby, though? I tend to think of it as an effect rather than a cause.
Harry's claim that only "top tier" DEs get the Dark Mark is also interesting - definitely not the idea we got earlier on. I suppose it would make more sense if such was the case now, now that there is no shortage of candidates I'm sure, but then how would Harry know? Actually, how does he know either way?
I know. That is a little odd. Perhaps he has realised it during one of his sneak peeks into Voldemort's mind? It has not been present in any of the ones we have seen, but there have been some off-stage ones.
Draco: the difference between him and his father becomes clearer and clearer. I like how he is reluctant to identify any of them, and never does so unequivocally. This despite the hard forged enmity between them at Hogwarts. I suppose there is something to the difference between school wars and real world wars.
Do you figure the difference between him and his father is that Lucius, even after Azkaban, still hasn't faced the darkness the way Draco has? Or it could be a real difference in character, yeah.
I am not sure. I think it is down to Draco having been confronted with too much too fast, being asked to do horrible things while still retaining a modicul of innocence. He was not let into it easily, not asked to kill faceless people he did not know, and then work his way up. I think that has a lot to do with it.
Bellatrix: she is truly, truly insane. And terrified, which heightens her insanity. She does seem quite easy to manipulate.
It's rare that she really seems insane as in not knowing what she's doing, though. She's instable, volatile and paranoid, but while one might call that mental issues, it's not what most people would call "insane".
Very true.
Ron: his willingness to sacrifice himself for Hermione is so sweet. Especially considering he is volunteering to be tortured by a crazy woman.
I'm kind of with Harry on that one: when your loud yelling is not helping and only sabotaging's Harry's attempts to get out quickly, you really should shut up.
Yes. I was referring to the moment before they were taken away. Not the period in the dungeon. There he was just annoying.
Dobby: goes out in a blaze of glory. No surprises there. I find I cannot quite accept the repeated comparison between Dobby and Dumbledore, however. It is clear what it is supposed to achieve (murky depths of intentionality &c., &c., but still) -- it should reinforce the theme of the subjugation of the non-wizarding magical people, and also plays a little with the difference between the leader and the people tirelessly following his orders. BUT. It doesn't work for me. Perhaps because I find Dobby so bloody annoying.
Heh, yes. He really is annoying - not as much as earlier, but still. Though Harry proves again how right he has his priorities by ignoring the annoyance and seeing only the courage and dedication.
Yes, he is better at that than I am.
Dumbledore: he really is one clever cookie. Not only does he realise that Harry must learn not to go after the Hallows, and that obstacles must therefore be put in his way, he also takes the cunning precaution of having Voldemort take his wand in a way that does not make him master of it, freeing Harry up to win. I don't know to what extent that was planneable, but I find my faith in Dumbledore restored at this point in the book, and I think it carries on through to the end.
Yeah, I'm still yawning about wand lore, sorry.
I like wand lore. I wish we could have gotten some indications of it earlier, and I am a little surprised that it is so secret, since the effects seem to be quite apparent. But I like the idea of it and how she uses it.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
structured procrastinator
The Great Harry Potter Re-read: Book 7 - The Deathly Hallows
- 24/11/2010 07:47:44 PM
6292 Views
Suggestions - tell us what we could do better for this final discussion.
- 24/11/2010 07:48:22 PM
2568 Views
The series as a whole: overall thoughts about the Harry Potter universe and all it contains
- 24/11/2010 07:49:21 PM
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Overall thoughts for The Deathly Hallows
- 24/11/2010 07:50:12 PM
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This might be the only book other than the first where I actually like Harry.
- 30/11/2010 03:13:25 PM
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Argh, I keep mixing everything up with the movie!
- 04/12/2010 03:45:24 PM
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Re: Argh, I keep mixing everything up with the movie!
- 04/12/2010 10:33:03 PM
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Going all the way back to the beginning in a number of ways, all of them so far excellent.
- 07/12/2010 10:19:33 PM
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Having finished it again... it's good, at times great, but not the best book in the series, imho.
- 26/12/2010 08:19:47 PM
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Chapters 1-3: The Dark Lord Ascending, In Memorian, The Dursleys Departing.
- 24/11/2010 07:51:29 PM
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Characters: Voldemort, the Death Eaters, Harry, Dodge, Dumbledore, Skeeter & the Dursleys
- 24/11/2010 07:52:55 PM
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Snape, Draco, Lucius, Narcissa, Bellatrix, Harry, Ms Burbage, Dumbledore, and the Dursleys.
- 24/11/2010 11:46:16 PM
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Draco, female Death Eaters, Dumbledore.
- 25/11/2010 04:44:36 PM
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Re: Draco, female Death Eaters, Dumbledore.
- 25/11/2010 04:53:25 PM
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As Katie said, the husband is still around.
- 26/11/2010 10:56:30 AM
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Re: Charity Burbage
- 25/11/2010 06:47:43 PM
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Re: Charity Burbage
- 25/11/2010 06:48:52 PM
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Dudley
- 30/11/2010 03:16:25 PM
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Agreed, but she just went overboard too far early on for it to be credible now.
- 06/12/2010 08:44:48 PM
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Plotting, writing, early themes.
- 24/11/2010 07:53:33 PM
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Anything else? *NM*
- 24/11/2010 07:53:46 PM
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other stuff
- 24/11/2010 11:47:54 PM
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I've always thought Rowling went overboard with the Nazi links.
- 25/11/2010 04:26:58 PM
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Re: I've always thought Rowling went overboard with the Nazi links.
- 27/11/2010 01:20:44 AM
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Chapters 4-6: The Seven Potters, The Fallen Warrior, The Ghoul in Pyjamas *NM*
- 26/11/2010 07:27:53 PM
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Characters: Harry, the Order, Hedwig, Mr & Mrs Tonks, Voldemort, etc
- 26/11/2010 07:29:48 PM
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Harry, the twins, Mr and Mrs Tonks, Lupin, Mr and Mrs Weasley, Scrimgeour and Hermione
- 27/11/2010 11:56:17 AM
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Re: Harry, the twins, Mr and Mrs Tonks, Lupin, Mr and Mrs Weasley, Scrimgeour and Hermione
- 30/11/2010 02:52:12 PM
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The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things.
- 26/11/2010 07:30:35 PM
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Re: The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things.
- 27/11/2010 11:59:36 AM
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Yes, Dumbledore gives a very complex answer about the wand thing
- 01/12/2010 08:44:57 PM
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Any other thoughts? *NM*
- 26/11/2010 07:30:49 PM
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Chapters 7-9: The Will of Albus Dumbledore, The Wedding, A Place to Hide
- 29/11/2010 06:39:52 PM
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The characters: usual suspects, Scrimgeour, Doge, Krum, Luna, Xenophilius, etc.
- 29/11/2010 06:41:41 PM
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I just realized something about Krum.
- 06/12/2010 09:00:28 PM
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The action.
- 29/11/2010 06:42:10 PM
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Hermione and obliviate.
- 30/11/2010 02:23:51 PM
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Re: Hermione and obliviate.
- 30/11/2010 03:24:06 PM
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I think this was a Rowling mistake. It happens
- 01/12/2010 08:32:25 PM
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Agreed, though a rather blatant one that someone should have caught... *NM*
- 06/12/2010 08:18:58 PM
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Kreacher quoting Regulus raises an interesting point...
- 06/12/2010 08:33:02 PM
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Er, I posted this in the wrong place. That's what I get when I try to catch up.
Sorry. *NM*
- 06/12/2010 08:34:06 PM
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Sorry. *NM*
- 06/12/2010 08:34:06 PM
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Please, sir, may I have some more? *NM*
- 29/11/2010 06:44:14 PM
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I love the use of Patronuses (Patroni?) as messengers.
- 30/11/2010 02:59:04 PM
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Chapters 10-12: Kreacher's Tale, The Bribe, Magic is Might
- 01/12/2010 11:41:40 PM
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Characters: more of the trio, Kreacher, Mundungus, RAB and Umbridge
- 01/12/2010 11:42:34 PM
2500 Views
Hermione and Ron, Sirius, Regulus, Kreacher, Lupin, Harry, Scrimgeour
- 02/12/2010 09:11:21 AM
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Re: Hermione and Ron, Sirius, Regulus, Kreacher, Lupin, Harry, Scrimgeour
- 04/12/2010 10:55:34 PM
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Seconded. Righteous anger is more fun than whiny angst-anger. *NM*
- 06/12/2010 09:41:16 PM
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I'm not sure why we're supposed to be surprised about Scrimgeour.
- 06/12/2010 09:46:27 PM
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Two things about Mafalda Hopkirk.
- 06/12/2010 09:54:53 PM
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Weaving the plot, the writing, and thematic matters.
- 01/12/2010 11:43:25 PM
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The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 09:14:21 AM
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Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 02:12:29 PM
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Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 02:35:06 PM
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Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 04:16:14 PM
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And? And? And? *NM*
- 01/12/2010 11:43:46 PM
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Did we have a discussion for a previous book about how many wizarding schools there are?
- 04/12/2010 10:21:42 PM
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Re: Did we have a discussion for a previous book about how many wizarding schools there are?
- 04/12/2010 10:32:17 PM
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Chapters 13-15: The Muggle-Born Registration Commission, The Thief, The Goblin's Revenge *NM*
- 04/12/2010 11:01:25 AM
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Characters: Ministry members, the trio, Ted, Dean, Dirk, Goblins, Phineas Nigellus
- 04/12/2010 11:07:57 AM
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Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
- 04/12/2010 09:59:45 PM
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Re: Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
- 06/12/2010 10:41:08 PM
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Re: Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
- 06/12/2010 10:45:17 PM
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Plotting, writing, theming.
- 04/12/2010 11:08:47 AM
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Apparating and the fidelius charm, some good plotting and the food problem.
- 04/12/2010 10:01:16 PM
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Anything else? *NM*
- 04/12/2010 11:10:52 AM
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It may be a stretch, but with all the Nazi references, any WW2 reference is gonna catch my eye.
- 06/12/2010 10:09:04 PM
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Re: It may be a stretch, but with all the Nazi references, any WW2 reference is gonna catch my eye.
- 06/12/2010 10:17:42 PM
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Chapters 16-18: Godric's Hollow, Bathilda's Secret, The Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore
- 06/12/2010 09:57:00 PM
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Characters: Harry, Hermione, Bathilda, Dumbledore and others
- 06/12/2010 09:57:52 PM
2752 Views
Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:02:13 PM
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Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:14:26 PM
2790 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:18:15 PM
2922 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:34:15 PM
2588 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:36:18 PM
2622 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:39:58 PM
2831 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:42:27 PM
2540 Views
I was interpreting it as sheer sexism, but you might be right.
- 07/12/2010 08:47:11 PM
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Re: I was interpreting it as sheer sexism, but you might be right.
- 07/12/2010 08:55:54 PM
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Lights! Camera! Action!
- 06/12/2010 09:59:52 PM
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But wait! There's more!
- 06/12/2010 10:00:34 PM
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Chapters 19-21: The Silver Doe, Xenophilius Lovegood, The Tale of the Three Brothers
- 08/12/2010 08:47:04 PM
2609 Views
Characters: Harry, Hermione, Ron, Lovegood ... and not many more. *NM*
- 08/12/2010 08:49:28 PM
1393 Views
Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 12:01:57 AM
2734 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 03:04:11 PM
2780 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 08:03:05 PM
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Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 11:48:08 PM
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Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 08:44:01 PM
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Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 09:00:44 PM
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Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 09:16:48 PM
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Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 09:19:38 PM
2594 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 19/12/2010 06:58:04 PM
2571 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 20/12/2010 09:36:17 AM
2645 Views
What was that again about Hermione not being so good at thinking on her feet?
- 09/12/2010 07:52:23 PM
2597 Views
Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
- 08/12/2010 08:50:53 PM
2717 Views
Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
- 09/12/2010 12:04:37 AM
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Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
- 09/12/2010 03:25:53 PM
2702 Views
I don't think it works that way. They aren't "used up".
- 09/12/2010 06:52:29 PM
2535 Views
up up down down left right left right b a select start. look at me I have 99 horcruxes!
- 10/12/2010 04:19:56 AM
2318 Views
- 10/12/2010 04:19:56 AM
2318 Views
They're not so annoying yet, now.
- 09/12/2010 06:56:46 PM
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Re: They're not so annoying yet, now.
- 09/12/2010 11:52:02 PM
2666 Views
Plus, it totally cheapens ability and skill if you have some "magic (magic) wand".
- 10/12/2010 08:56:28 PM
2653 Views
- 10/12/2010 08:56:28 PM
2653 Views
Re: Plus, it totally cheapens ability and skill if you have some "magic (magic) wand".
- 10/12/2010 08:59:41 PM
2765 Views
- 10/12/2010 08:59:41 PM
2765 Views
Chapters 22-24: The Deathly Hallows, Malfoy Manor, The Wandmaker.
- 10/12/2010 09:11:32 PM
2481 Views
Characters: The Trio, the Malfoys, Dobby, a number of others. *NM*
- 10/12/2010 09:12:30 PM
1369 Views
Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
- 10/12/2010 11:23:09 PM
2847 Views
Re: Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
- 13/12/2010 08:47:27 PM
2650 Views
Re: Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
- 13/12/2010 09:26:58 PM
2853 Views
On a side note about wands
- 14/12/2010 06:05:13 PM
2635 Views
Yes, I've caught myself immaturely sniggering on occasion, too.
- 14/12/2010 08:59:26 PM
2662 Views
- 14/12/2010 08:59:26 PM
2662 Views
Re: Yes, I've caught myself immaturely sniggering on occasion, too.
- 14/12/2010 09:04:43 PM
2713 Views
- 14/12/2010 09:04:43 PM
2713 Views
Plot, writing, themes. *NM*
- 10/12/2010 09:13:37 PM
1342 Views
An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
- 10/12/2010 11:24:05 PM
2501 Views
Re: An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
- 20/12/2010 01:00:38 PM
2699 Views
Re: An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
- 20/12/2010 07:32:48 PM
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Chapters 25-27: Shell Cottage, Gringotts, The Final Hiding Place
- 13/12/2010 10:03:15 PM
2534 Views
Characters *NM*
- 13/12/2010 10:03:29 PM
1316 Views
Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 05:16:51 PM
2701 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:04:09 PM
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Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:19:04 PM
2759 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:37:00 PM
2601 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:45:36 PM
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Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 20/12/2010 03:33:49 PM
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Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 20/12/2010 07:35:51 PM
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Plot, action, etc. *NM*
- 13/12/2010 10:04:02 PM
1297 Views
red herring, fidelius charm information and full circle.
- 14/12/2010 05:17:11 PM
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Other things. *NM*
- 13/12/2010 10:04:23 PM
1228 Views
Film stuff
- 14/12/2010 05:17:18 PM
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Excellent point.
- 14/12/2010 10:05:01 PM
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Re: Excellent point.
- 14/12/2010 10:09:53 PM
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Sometimes Rowling's parallels are far too simplistic and unsophisticated.
- 20/12/2010 03:39:50 PM
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Chapters 28-30: The Missing Mirror, The Lost Diadem, The Sacking of Severus Snape *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:07:20 PM
1350 Views
Characters *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:07:31 PM
1277 Views
Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 16/12/2010 11:52:46 PM
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Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 20/12/2010 05:16:13 PM
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Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 20/12/2010 11:02:45 PM
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Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 26/12/2010 08:43:03 PM
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Writing, action, plot, theme, yadda yadda yadda. *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:08:04 PM
1322 Views
red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
- 16/12/2010 11:53:56 PM
2627 Views
Re: red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
- 20/12/2010 05:38:46 PM
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Re: red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
- 20/12/2010 11:06:01 PM
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Other things. *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:08:25 PM
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Chapters 31-33: The Battle for Hogwarts, The Elder Wand, The Prince's Tale
- 19/12/2010 07:56:39 PM
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Characters: far too many to mention.
- 19/12/2010 07:58:41 PM
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Too many to mention, indeed.
- 20/12/2010 09:30:54 AM
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The action, and plot advancement and completion.
- 19/12/2010 08:00:09 PM
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memories, cinematic moments and parallels.
- 20/12/2010 09:32:27 AM
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Chapters 34-36: The Forest Again, King's Cross, The Flaw in the Plan
- 20/12/2010 07:31:27 PM
2495 Views
Characters: Voldemort, Harry, Dumbledore, Ron, Hermione, et al.
- 20/12/2010 07:32:15 PM
2553 Views
Harry, Dumbledore, Neville, the Malfoys, Molly and Voldemort
- 20/12/2010 11:28:19 PM
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Tying up the plot.
- 20/12/2010 07:33:00 PM
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Narnia, blood, revenge of the downtrodden, sacrifice, plans and souls
- 20/12/2010 11:29:44 PM
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Epilogue: the future.
- 20/12/2010 07:35:06 PM
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