Dumbledore: I like how Dumbledore is made human here. His regrets and how his rejection of power is founded in a belief that he cannot be trusted with it. I am not sure it is justified, as power does not seem to have been his main goal even as he was teaming up with Grindewald.
That's a good point. And I liked the previously suggested reasons for his refusal to become Minister better.
Although the Malfoys should perhaps be mentioned. They have shown themselves as surprisingly loving parents throughout (especially considering the scenes in earlier books where Draco's relationship with his father, especially, seems to be characterised by a lack of (demonstrated, at any rate) love. I like how Narcissa saves Harry to save Draco, and how the Malfoys cannot be bothered with the fighting once they are inside the castle. It would be too much of a stretch to have them fight on the side of Good, and I prefer this rejection of sides at all in favour of finding their son.
Agreed with that. One gets the impression that the balance of power in the family has shifted, Narcissa being in the lead now and Lucius following, and that has its consequences in what they do.
Yes, I think you are right.
And Molly. It was mentioned earlier that Molly has become a sort of housewifey caricature character when in earlier times she would have been both competent and courageous. I like that this resurfaces in this final battle. Yes, her provocation is an attack on her one daughter (which brings back up Ron's suspicions), but her competency is unquestionable, as the woman who could easily fend off Hermione, Luna and Ginny in one go is suddenly forced to concentrate.
Well, see, it is in itself defensible that a grown woman is indeed more of a force to be reckoned with than three schoolgirls, even when those three schoolgirls are rather good for their age. It is possible to say, look here, Ginny may be redoubtable and all, but that's only by schoolgirl standards. Unfortunately, considering that the entirety of book seven consists of three schoolkids doing everything by themselves, ignoring the adults and carrying the day, it feels rather inconsistent to suddenly give such weight to adult experience now. It would have been far more credible if 1) Molly had defeated Bellatrix with a quick lucky shot, 2) Molly had defeated Bellatrix with the aid of the girls, or of course 3) Bellatrix had summarily defeated or even killed Molly.
So, yeah, I still really don't like it. That she throws herself into that fight, absolutely; that she is better than the three girls combined and defeats Bellatrix in a fair fight, absolutely not.
I really disagree. My point is precisely that Molly is not just a grown woman, which is what she has been presented as throughout the series. That is what I referred to with the housewifey caricature comment. She is presented as someone whose main character trait is that she is an adult with children. But she was a member of the Order in her own right when she was young. So it is not a matter of experience trumping ability. It is the two together. Plus determination to protect her own -- and it has already been established that feelings affect spells (I'm thinking of the crucio spell). The one thing I find a little problematic is that she would tell everyone to not participate, as it would make sense to get as much help as possible, but I suppose that is covered by the protecting the young trait which has been presented as her main one.
Voldemort: I was intrigued by his reaction to Bellatrix' death. Considering his attitude to her lately, I would not have expected him to care. It must be a result of everyone else having fallen, but even so that reaction seems uncharacteristic.
I suppose he does appreciate having a fiercely loyal psycho by his side who hangs on his every word? 
To be fair, who wouldn't?
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
structured procrastinator
The Great Harry Potter Re-read: Book 7 - The Deathly Hallows
- 24/11/2010 07:47:44 PM
4203 Views
Suggestions - tell us what we could do better for this final discussion.
- 24/11/2010 07:48:22 PM
1990 Views
The series as a whole: overall thoughts about the Harry Potter universe and all it contains
- 24/11/2010 07:49:21 PM
2022 Views
Overall thoughts for The Deathly Hallows
- 24/11/2010 07:50:12 PM
2090 Views
This might be the only book other than the first where I actually like Harry.
- 30/11/2010 03:13:25 PM
1997 Views
Argh, I keep mixing everything up with the movie!
- 04/12/2010 03:45:24 PM
2132 Views
Re: Argh, I keep mixing everything up with the movie!
- 04/12/2010 10:33:03 PM
2153 Views
Going all the way back to the beginning in a number of ways, all of them so far excellent.
- 07/12/2010 10:19:33 PM
2176 Views
Having finished it again... it's good, at times great, but not the best book in the series, imho.
- 26/12/2010 08:19:47 PM
2246 Views
Chapters 1-3: The Dark Lord Ascending, In Memorian, The Dursleys Departing.
- 24/11/2010 07:51:29 PM
2119 Views
Characters: Voldemort, the Death Eaters, Harry, Dodge, Dumbledore, Skeeter & the Dursleys
- 24/11/2010 07:52:55 PM
2119 Views
Snape, Draco, Lucius, Narcissa, Bellatrix, Harry, Ms Burbage, Dumbledore, and the Dursleys.
- 24/11/2010 11:46:16 PM
2215 Views
Draco, female Death Eaters, Dumbledore.
- 25/11/2010 04:44:36 PM
2285 Views
Re: Draco, female Death Eaters, Dumbledore.
- 25/11/2010 04:53:25 PM
2165 Views
As Katie said, the husband is still around.
- 26/11/2010 10:56:30 AM
2179 Views
Re: Charity Burbage
- 25/11/2010 06:47:43 PM
2125 Views
Re: Charity Burbage
- 25/11/2010 06:48:52 PM
2007 Views
Dudley
- 30/11/2010 03:16:25 PM
2003 Views
Agreed, but she just went overboard too far early on for it to be credible now.
- 06/12/2010 08:44:48 PM
2186 Views
Plotting, writing, early themes.
- 24/11/2010 07:53:33 PM
2087 Views
Anything else? *NM*
- 24/11/2010 07:53:46 PM
904 Views
other stuff
- 24/11/2010 11:47:54 PM
1957 Views
I've always thought Rowling went overboard with the Nazi links.
- 25/11/2010 04:26:58 PM
1940 Views
Re: I've always thought Rowling went overboard with the Nazi links.
- 27/11/2010 01:20:44 AM
2044 Views
Chapters 4-6: The Seven Potters, The Fallen Warrior, The Ghoul in Pyjamas *NM*
- 26/11/2010 07:27:53 PM
1028 Views
Characters: Harry, the Order, Hedwig, Mr & Mrs Tonks, Voldemort, etc
- 26/11/2010 07:29:48 PM
2070 Views
Harry, the twins, Mr and Mrs Tonks, Lupin, Mr and Mrs Weasley, Scrimgeour and Hermione
- 27/11/2010 11:56:17 AM
2381 Views
Re: Harry, the twins, Mr and Mrs Tonks, Lupin, Mr and Mrs Weasley, Scrimgeour and Hermione
- 30/11/2010 02:52:12 PM
2266 Views
The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things.
- 26/11/2010 07:30:35 PM
1947 Views
Re: The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things.
- 27/11/2010 11:59:36 AM
2316 Views
Yes, Dumbledore gives a very complex answer about the wand thing
- 01/12/2010 08:44:57 PM
1951 Views
Any other thoughts? *NM*
- 26/11/2010 07:30:49 PM
1017 Views
Chapters 7-9: The Will of Albus Dumbledore, The Wedding, A Place to Hide
- 29/11/2010 06:39:52 PM
1931 Views
The characters: usual suspects, Scrimgeour, Doge, Krum, Luna, Xenophilius, etc.
- 29/11/2010 06:41:41 PM
2035 Views
I just realized something about Krum.
- 06/12/2010 09:00:28 PM
1995 Views
The action.
- 29/11/2010 06:42:10 PM
1915 Views
Hermione and obliviate.
- 30/11/2010 02:23:51 PM
1986 Views
Re: Hermione and obliviate.
- 30/11/2010 03:24:06 PM
2049 Views
I think this was a Rowling mistake. It happens
- 01/12/2010 08:32:25 PM
2070 Views
Agreed, though a rather blatant one that someone should have caught... *NM*
- 06/12/2010 08:18:58 PM
994 Views
Kreacher quoting Regulus raises an interesting point...
- 06/12/2010 08:33:02 PM
2178 Views
Er, I posted this in the wrong place. That's what I get when I try to catch up. Sorry. *NM*
- 06/12/2010 08:34:06 PM
1041 Views
Sorry. *NM*
- 06/12/2010 08:34:06 PM
1041 Views
Please, sir, may I have some more? *NM*
- 29/11/2010 06:44:14 PM
965 Views
I love the use of Patronuses (Patroni?) as messengers.
- 30/11/2010 02:59:04 PM
2053 Views
Chapters 10-12: Kreacher's Tale, The Bribe, Magic is Might
- 01/12/2010 11:41:40 PM
1908 Views
Characters: more of the trio, Kreacher, Mundungus, RAB and Umbridge
- 01/12/2010 11:42:34 PM
1934 Views
Hermione and Ron, Sirius, Regulus, Kreacher, Lupin, Harry, Scrimgeour
- 02/12/2010 09:11:21 AM
2234 Views
Re: Hermione and Ron, Sirius, Regulus, Kreacher, Lupin, Harry, Scrimgeour
- 04/12/2010 10:55:34 PM
2236 Views
Seconded. Righteous anger is more fun than whiny angst-anger. *NM*
- 06/12/2010 09:41:16 PM
982 Views
I'm not sure why we're supposed to be surprised about Scrimgeour.
- 06/12/2010 09:46:27 PM
2240 Views
Two things about Mafalda Hopkirk.
- 06/12/2010 09:54:53 PM
2023 Views
Weaving the plot, the writing, and thematic matters.
- 01/12/2010 11:43:25 PM
2057 Views
The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 09:14:21 AM
2097 Views
Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 02:12:29 PM
2126 Views
Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 02:35:06 PM
1844 Views
Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 04:16:14 PM
2140 Views
And? And? And? *NM*
- 01/12/2010 11:43:46 PM
1015 Views
Did we have a discussion for a previous book about how many wizarding schools there are?
- 04/12/2010 10:21:42 PM
2152 Views
Re: Did we have a discussion for a previous book about how many wizarding schools there are?
- 04/12/2010 10:32:17 PM
2059 Views
Chapters 13-15: The Muggle-Born Registration Commission, The Thief, The Goblin's Revenge *NM*
- 04/12/2010 11:01:25 AM
1159 Views
Characters: Ministry members, the trio, Ted, Dean, Dirk, Goblins, Phineas Nigellus
- 04/12/2010 11:07:57 AM
2040 Views
Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
- 04/12/2010 09:59:45 PM
2226 Views
Re: Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
- 06/12/2010 10:41:08 PM
2201 Views
Re: Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
- 06/12/2010 10:45:17 PM
2079 Views
Plotting, writing, theming.
- 04/12/2010 11:08:47 AM
2187 Views
Apparating and the fidelius charm, some good plotting and the food problem.
- 04/12/2010 10:01:16 PM
2228 Views
Anything else? *NM*
- 04/12/2010 11:10:52 AM
1044 Views
It may be a stretch, but with all the Nazi references, any WW2 reference is gonna catch my eye.
- 06/12/2010 10:09:04 PM
2043 Views
Re: It may be a stretch, but with all the Nazi references, any WW2 reference is gonna catch my eye.
- 06/12/2010 10:17:42 PM
1995 Views
Chapters 16-18: Godric's Hollow, Bathilda's Secret, The Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore
- 06/12/2010 09:57:00 PM
2039 Views
Characters: Harry, Hermione, Bathilda, Dumbledore and others
- 06/12/2010 09:57:52 PM
2119 Views
Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:02:13 PM
2152 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:14:26 PM
2235 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:18:15 PM
2340 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:34:15 PM
2019 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:36:18 PM
2038 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:39:58 PM
2287 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:42:27 PM
1945 Views
I was interpreting it as sheer sexism, but you might be right.
- 07/12/2010 08:47:11 PM
1983 Views
Re: I was interpreting it as sheer sexism, but you might be right.
- 07/12/2010 08:55:54 PM
1971 Views
Lights! Camera! Action!
- 06/12/2010 09:59:52 PM
2021 Views
But wait! There's more!
- 06/12/2010 10:00:34 PM
1996 Views
Chapters 19-21: The Silver Doe, Xenophilius Lovegood, The Tale of the Three Brothers
- 08/12/2010 08:47:04 PM
2068 Views
Characters: Harry, Hermione, Ron, Lovegood ... and not many more. *NM*
- 08/12/2010 08:49:28 PM
1072 Views
Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 12:01:57 AM
2154 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 03:04:11 PM
2185 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 08:03:05 PM
2068 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 11:48:08 PM
2269 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 08:44:01 PM
2094 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 09:00:44 PM
2058 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 09:16:48 PM
2025 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 09:19:38 PM
2043 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 19/12/2010 06:58:04 PM
1979 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 20/12/2010 09:36:17 AM
2021 Views
What was that again about Hermione not being so good at thinking on her feet?
- 09/12/2010 07:52:23 PM
2058 Views
Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
- 08/12/2010 08:50:53 PM
2138 Views
Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
- 09/12/2010 12:04:37 AM
2042 Views
Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
- 09/12/2010 03:25:53 PM
2030 Views
I don't think it works that way. They aren't "used up".
- 09/12/2010 06:52:29 PM
1994 Views
up up down down left right left right b a select start. look at me I have 99 horcruxes!
- 10/12/2010 04:19:56 AM
1743 Views
- 10/12/2010 04:19:56 AM
1743 Views
They're not so annoying yet, now.
- 09/12/2010 06:56:46 PM
1943 Views
Re: They're not so annoying yet, now.
- 09/12/2010 11:52:02 PM
2119 Views
Plus, it totally cheapens ability and skill if you have some "magic (magic) wand".
- 10/12/2010 08:56:28 PM
2081 Views
- 10/12/2010 08:56:28 PM
2081 Views
Re: Plus, it totally cheapens ability and skill if you have some "magic (magic) wand".
- 10/12/2010 08:59:41 PM
2165 Views
- 10/12/2010 08:59:41 PM
2165 Views
Chapters 22-24: The Deathly Hallows, Malfoy Manor, The Wandmaker.
- 10/12/2010 09:11:32 PM
1931 Views
Characters: The Trio, the Malfoys, Dobby, a number of others. *NM*
- 10/12/2010 09:12:30 PM
1038 Views
Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
- 10/12/2010 11:23:09 PM
2230 Views
Re: Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
- 13/12/2010 08:47:27 PM
2060 Views
Re: Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
- 13/12/2010 09:26:58 PM
2262 Views
On a side note about wands
- 14/12/2010 06:05:13 PM
2085 Views
Yes, I've caught myself immaturely sniggering on occasion, too.
- 14/12/2010 08:59:26 PM
2105 Views
- 14/12/2010 08:59:26 PM
2105 Views
Re: Yes, I've caught myself immaturely sniggering on occasion, too.
- 14/12/2010 09:04:43 PM
2162 Views
- 14/12/2010 09:04:43 PM
2162 Views
Plot, writing, themes. *NM*
- 10/12/2010 09:13:37 PM
1039 Views
An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
- 10/12/2010 11:24:05 PM
1964 Views
Re: An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
- 20/12/2010 01:00:38 PM
2136 Views
Re: An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
- 20/12/2010 07:32:48 PM
2124 Views
Chapters 25-27: Shell Cottage, Gringotts, The Final Hiding Place
- 13/12/2010 10:03:15 PM
1967 Views
Characters *NM*
- 13/12/2010 10:03:29 PM
1000 Views
Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 05:16:51 PM
2106 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:04:09 PM
2096 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:19:04 PM
2156 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:37:00 PM
2017 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:45:36 PM
2156 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 20/12/2010 03:33:49 PM
2163 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 20/12/2010 07:35:51 PM
2349 Views
Plot, action, etc. *NM*
- 13/12/2010 10:04:02 PM
991 Views
red herring, fidelius charm information and full circle.
- 14/12/2010 05:17:11 PM
1892 Views
Other things. *NM*
- 13/12/2010 10:04:23 PM
903 Views
Film stuff
- 14/12/2010 05:17:18 PM
1982 Views
Excellent point.
- 14/12/2010 10:05:01 PM
1967 Views
Re: Excellent point.
- 14/12/2010 10:09:53 PM
1986 Views
Sometimes Rowling's parallels are far too simplistic and unsophisticated.
- 20/12/2010 03:39:50 PM
1978 Views
Chapters 28-30: The Missing Mirror, The Lost Diadem, The Sacking of Severus Snape *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:07:20 PM
1038 Views
Characters *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:07:31 PM
969 Views
Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 16/12/2010 11:52:46 PM
2245 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 20/12/2010 05:16:13 PM
2086 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 20/12/2010 11:02:45 PM
2074 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 26/12/2010 08:43:03 PM
2087 Views
Writing, action, plot, theme, yadda yadda yadda. *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:08:04 PM
990 Views
red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
- 16/12/2010 11:53:56 PM
2074 Views
Re: red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
- 20/12/2010 05:38:46 PM
2046 Views
Re: red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
- 20/12/2010 11:06:01 PM
2254 Views
Other things. *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:08:25 PM
1015 Views
Chapters 31-33: The Battle for Hogwarts, The Elder Wand, The Prince's Tale
- 19/12/2010 07:56:39 PM
2038 Views
Characters: far too many to mention.
- 19/12/2010 07:58:41 PM
1920 Views
Too many to mention, indeed.
- 20/12/2010 09:30:54 AM
2278 Views
The action, and plot advancement and completion.
- 19/12/2010 08:00:09 PM
2065 Views
memories, cinematic moments and parallels.
- 20/12/2010 09:32:27 AM
1841 Views
Chapters 34-36: The Forest Again, King's Cross, The Flaw in the Plan
- 20/12/2010 07:31:27 PM
1918 Views
Characters: Voldemort, Harry, Dumbledore, Ron, Hermione, et al.
- 20/12/2010 07:32:15 PM
1954 Views
Harry, Dumbledore, Neville, the Malfoys, Molly and Voldemort
- 20/12/2010 11:28:19 PM
2091 Views
The Malfoys and Molly
- 01/01/2011 10:55:28 PM
2166 Views
Re: The Malfoys and Molly
- 02/01/2011 10:35:47 AM
2172 Views
Tying up the plot.
- 20/12/2010 07:33:00 PM
1936 Views
Narnia, blood, revenge of the downtrodden, sacrifice, plans and souls
- 20/12/2010 11:29:44 PM
2056 Views
Epilogue: the future.
- 20/12/2010 07:35:06 PM
2064 Views