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Re: Regarding comfort zones nossy Send a noteboard - 27/01/2010 11:57:03 AM
And to be fair, I suspect this book is outside the comfort zone of most people on this board. It is part of another pattern, another genre. One of the reasons I thought this book might be a good idea is that it is an easy read despite having been labelled a classic. I feel fairly certain that if we had read The Years or Madame Bovary or another book that calls for thorough interpretation and deep discussion (which is what Tom and Greg seem to think the book club will magically turn into if we read a book like that), most of those here would never pick up another non-genre book ever again. Part of leaving comfort zones is to get used to it so that you can do it again.

It's certainly outside the comfort zones of two of our members.:P I do think it's unlike what a sf/f reader would typically chose, and even though a child might understand 70% of the story, I do not think it's a children's book. As such, I agree with you that it could be a good gateway book for primarily sf/f reading adults. I'm hoping the arguments haven't scared interested parties away.


Well, I knew what was coming. I had forgotten some of the melodrama and most of the action. And I was fine with it. Which, I suppose, means that most of the brunt of not having objected to this suggestion as a crime against decency falls on me.

I don't think that it would have mattered. You can enjoy a book for what it is, rather than being angry for what it's not. I think it might not have been a good choice, but only because it's so long. I actually like the story for an entertaining read.
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The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas - Book Club now open! Rebekah - 25/01/2010 10:54:37 PM 2609 Views
Le plot. Rebekah - 25/01/2010 10:55:26 PM 1385 Views
Plot: demarcation, plan, complot... Camilla - 26/01/2010 11:48:19 PM 1534 Views
Les characters. Rebekah - 25/01/2010 10:56:23 PM 1476 Views
The good, the bad and the ugly. Camilla - 26/01/2010 10:54:38 AM 1498 Views
Hmm. snoopcester - 27/01/2010 03:58:31 PM 1424 Views
Re: Hmm. Camilla - 27/01/2010 04:59:12 PM 1481 Views
Re: Hmm. snoopcester - 28/01/2010 01:40:34 PM 1436 Views
Re: Hmm. Camilla - 01/02/2010 12:49:06 PM 1624 Views
Why does the book have enduring appeal? Rebekah - 25/01/2010 10:57:37 PM 1466 Views
Or rather, does this book share any traits in common with pornography? Larry - 25/01/2010 11:14:01 PM 1568 Views
I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak. Tom - 26/01/2010 03:43:04 AM 1502 Views
Re: I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak. Camilla - 26/01/2010 11:12:19 AM 1545 Views
In that case, the "release" is quite unsatisfying. Tom - 27/01/2010 01:42:28 PM 1646 Views
Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:06:58 PM 1540 Views
He would not have known the book would be ruined by water. He thought he was being buried. Tom - 27/01/2010 02:15:02 PM 1450 Views
He would still have to swim, being on an island Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:37:26 PM 1623 Views
Oh, and your point on revenge - that's just reading too much into the text. Tom - 27/01/2010 02:16:05 PM 1374 Views
There is no such thing Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:18:46 PM 1418 Views
I fundamentally disagree with your post-modern take on the novel. Tom - 27/01/2010 02:25:25 PM 1474 Views
It isn't a postmodern take on it Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:41:32 PM 1444 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting snoopcester - 27/01/2010 03:40:36 PM 1423 Views
Maybe it's of the same importance as the Lost Symbol. Tom - 27/01/2010 03:44:55 PM 1487 Views
If I ddin't know better, I might think you a trifle petulant snoopcester - 27/01/2010 04:19:57 PM 1550 Views
I'm never petulant Tom - 27/01/2010 04:55:56 PM 1410 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting Camilla - 27/01/2010 04:47:37 PM 1543 Views
I think one important question to ask is... Legolas - 26/01/2010 12:00:17 AM 1524 Views
I like it, but it is purely on the adventure story level, and I've read the unabridged version. Rebekah - 26/01/2010 12:03:01 AM 1381 Views
I'm fairly certain I read the unabridged version. It was 1500 pages. *NM* Tom - 26/01/2010 02:36:10 AM 783 Views
I have read the abridged version a couple of times. I am reading the unabridged version this time. Tashmere - 26/01/2010 03:25:50 AM 1465 Views
the potentially removable part... Camilla - 26/01/2010 11:24:16 AM 1531 Views
I have read both Camilla - 27/01/2010 01:37:00 AM 1551 Views
I actually didn't mean the people here on the site so much as readers in general. Legolas - 27/01/2010 01:44:46 AM 1542 Views
Re: I actually didn't mean the people here on the site so much as readers in general. Camilla - 27/01/2010 01:48:11 AM 1468 Views
The abridged versus the unabridged Ryan - 28/01/2010 06:32:22 AM 1464 Views
Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? Camilla - 27/01/2010 01:16:47 AM 1598 Views
Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? Dar Valon - 30/01/2010 09:12:22 AM 1474 Views
Re: I got here too late, so I offer Umberto Eco's thoughts on the matter: Danae al'Thor - 22/02/2010 06:59:13 PM 1658 Views
I'm watching right back, Big Brother. *NM* The Shrike - 25/01/2010 11:44:30 PM 768 Views
*NM* Rebekah - 25/01/2010 11:45:27 PM 759 Views
The book was very childish. Tom - 26/01/2010 03:05:01 AM 1581 Views
Granted, The Master and Margarita is also very much a fantasy book. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/01/2010 03:07:45 AM 790 Views
No, it really isn't. Tom - 26/01/2010 03:10:08 AM 1541 Views
You know, this is a problem. The Shrike - 26/01/2010 03:43:14 AM 1517 Views
Thank God, I've never even heard of "Skol". Popov, yes, but Skol? Tom - 26/01/2010 03:49:08 AM 1504 Views
I've not tried it, but every time I go into liquor stores, it sits on the bottom shelf. The Shrike - 26/01/2010 03:57:03 AM 1411 Views
There's really nothing I can say to this that Greg didn't just say above. Ghavrel - 26/01/2010 06:32:02 AM 1576 Views
People tend to forget one thing about Tolkien Tom - 26/01/2010 01:36:06 PM 1500 Views
Re: No, it really isn't. Camilla - 26/01/2010 10:57:19 AM 1451 Views
Having Camilla concur with me on literary matters is very encouraging. Tom - 26/01/2010 01:37:23 PM 1509 Views
I do not agree with your complete dismissal of The Count of Monte Cristo, though Camilla - 26/01/2010 04:58:58 PM 1469 Views
I'll admit the only Lem I've read is Solaris... Legolas - 26/01/2010 01:52:02 PM 1529 Views
Read His Master's Voice Camilla - 26/01/2010 04:52:31 PM 1440 Views
You make some rather odd claims here, Tom Larry - 27/01/2010 12:43:41 AM 1546 Views
You place undue importance on academic degrees. Ghavrel - 27/01/2010 01:19:40 AM 1521 Views
You misread totally what I said, I see... Larry - 27/01/2010 01:52:59 AM 1418 Views
My claims are far from odd. In fact, they're quite common. Tom - 27/01/2010 01:57:41 AM 1491 Views
In some circles; in others, they're rather antiquated nowadays Larry - 27/01/2010 02:21:03 AM 1437 Views
If you were trying to write literature, wouldn't the label sting for you? Tom - 27/01/2010 01:25:14 PM 1492 Views
I think it's easier to think of stories fitting into genre(s) than to think the same of authors Larry - 27/01/2010 02:40:29 PM 1547 Views
Allow me to clarify: I'm talking about authors' reactions to their books being so labelled. Tom - 27/01/2010 03:08:47 PM 1596 Views
But yet their reactions vary widely Larry - 27/01/2010 11:33:25 PM 1477 Views
My fundamental premise is that genre has the most utility when applied to derivative fiction. Tom - 28/01/2010 09:39:17 PM 1444 Views
And yet that term is mostly used as a non-loaded term that doesn't attempt to ascribe quality levels Larry - 29/01/2010 02:49:20 AM 1375 Views
I like my definition of science fiction better than the one you quoted. Tom - 29/01/2010 05:16:36 AM 1434 Views
I think estrangement is a key element, though Larry - 30/01/2010 11:00:19 PM 1433 Views
I don't think estrangement is a necessary element. Tom - 30/01/2010 11:47:07 PM 1606 Views
I mean it as a literary effect, that of creating a distance between text and reader Larry - 31/01/2010 12:03:34 AM 1425 Views
Even if that's the meaning, I still disagree. Tom - 03/02/2010 12:49:58 AM 1411 Views
Depends on how you view SF, I suppose Larry - 03/02/2010 04:20:56 AM 1281 Views
I thought that was what we were mulling over Tom - 03/02/2010 04:38:35 AM 1413 Views
True Larry - 03/02/2010 05:11:19 AM 1352 Views
Nice tie-in! Tom - 03/02/2010 01:55:33 PM 1405 Views
Larry - 05/02/2010 06:06:23 AM 1483 Views
Your unscientific anecdotal evidence sounds very odd to me. Legolas - 28/01/2010 12:15:10 AM 1485 Views
It might. I'm not purporting to speak for all of humanity (at least on this point). Tom - 28/01/2010 09:43:40 PM 1537 Views
The approve of this message. The Shrike - 26/01/2010 03:34:49 AM 1503 Views
So, what you're saying is that watching the 2002 movie was sufficient? Good! *NM* everynametaken - 26/01/2010 06:34:53 AM 755 Views
I'm not through it quite yet, but I do have a question nossy - 26/01/2010 12:24:14 PM 1427 Views
Wait...you VOTED for this book? Tom - 26/01/2010 01:41:00 PM 1478 Views
I honestly can't remember. nossy - 26/01/2010 01:55:39 PM 1444 Views
Doctor Zhivago is one of the best novels ever written. Tom - 26/01/2010 02:12:35 PM 1459 Views
Right, so now we all know that if we'd just listen to me more often, the world would be better. nossy - 26/01/2010 02:20:56 PM 1452 Views
The problem was that the suggestions were generally not that good. Tom - 26/01/2010 02:32:50 PM 1503 Views
Possession is not "purely a romance novel". Legolas - 26/01/2010 02:57:17 PM 1626 Views
Which basically proves my entire point. nossy - 26/01/2010 03:00:20 PM 1495 Views
Which is purely a romance novel? Rebekah - 26/01/2010 02:59:38 PM 1504 Views
Fair enough, it might be a bit tricky to discuss. *NM* Legolas - 26/01/2010 03:04:58 PM 774 Views
In your opinion nossy - 26/01/2010 03:07:12 PM 1507 Views
Exactly why I avoid suggesting modern books Tom - 26/01/2010 03:10:09 PM 1495 Views
You really are ignornant of what A.S. Byatt writes, aren't you? Larry - 27/01/2010 12:51:00 AM 1473 Views
Oh, I fucking hate epistolary novels. Thank you for warning me. Tom - 27/01/2010 02:00:34 AM 1380 Views
Ha! Larry - 27/01/2010 02:22:00 AM 1444 Views
Perhaps I would like it. I still hate epistolary novels. Tom - 27/01/2010 01:26:43 PM 1468 Views
Indeed. *NM* Rebekah - 26/01/2010 02:01:22 PM 714 Views
It's funny because I think it's a question of taste level. The Shrike - 26/01/2010 02:32:08 PM 1530 Views
Curious George is a tale of many layers, as told by Werner Herzog Tom - 26/01/2010 02:34:27 PM 1584 Views
I don't care if this validates your opinion of me. Tashmere - 29/01/2010 11:06:18 PM 1384 Views
On what basis? nossy - 26/01/2010 02:51:40 PM 1536 Views
It's a children's book. Get over it. Democracy failed. The Shrike - 26/01/2010 02:55:03 PM 1535 Views
Usually does, when those who know better keep silent. nossy - 26/01/2010 02:57:54 PM 1420 Views
I didn't keep silent, though. The Shrike - 26/01/2010 04:46:48 PM 1520 Views
You're ignoring what we've been discussing. nossy - 27/01/2010 11:11:44 AM 1474 Views
Regarding comfort zones Camilla - 26/01/2010 05:08:50 PM 1543 Views
Camilla, let's be honest here... Tom - 26/01/2010 05:40:08 PM 1576 Views
Re: Camilla, let's be honest here... Camilla - 26/01/2010 09:10:47 PM 1520 Views
If that's your goal, Camilla, you failed. Tom - 27/01/2010 01:35:52 PM 1594 Views
Possibly Camilla - 27/01/2010 01:38:39 PM 1446 Views
I have not been ranting and raving. I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification. Tom - 27/01/2010 01:45:05 PM 1463 Views
Re: I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification. Camilla - 27/01/2010 01:53:28 PM 1450 Views
I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg. Tom - 27/01/2010 02:26:12 PM 1583 Views
Don't you get it? We bring this place down. The Shrike - 27/01/2010 02:42:32 PM 1422 Views
Heh heh heh. Pink cardigan-wearing suburban cul-de-sac. I like it. *NM* Tom - 27/01/2010 03:11:25 PM 758 Views
Re: I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg. Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:43:11 PM 1445 Views
While that was not the intent, that is an added bonus. The Shrike - 27/01/2010 02:48:47 PM 1441 Views
why is it a bonus? Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:52:58 PM 1407 Views
I said see above. You should have before the thought police, Rebekah, started to delete. The Shrike - 27/01/2010 02:59:07 PM 1686 Views
I did Camilla - 27/01/2010 04:40:25 PM 1483 Views
Well, you wouldn't grow tired of us calling a novel shit if you chose a novel that wasn't shit. Tom - 27/01/2010 03:11:57 PM 1432 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones nossy - 27/01/2010 11:57:03 AM 1504 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones Camilla - 27/01/2010 11:59:31 AM 1464 Views
Halfway nossy - 27/01/2010 12:07:14 PM 1439 Views
Re: Halfway Camilla - 27/01/2010 12:09:02 PM 1474 Views
Re: The book was very childish. Dar Valon - 30/01/2010 09:56:29 PM 1478 Views
I read it in French Larry - 30/01/2010 10:54:34 PM 1354 Views
So. I really liked it. Nebhead - 26/01/2010 08:57:02 AM 1601 Views
Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand. Rebekah - 26/01/2010 11:04:23 PM 1447 Views
Re: Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand. Camilla - 26/01/2010 11:49:03 PM 1504 Views
We were talking about this last night. nossy - 27/01/2010 11:14:21 AM 1571 Views
Re: We were talking about this last night. Camilla - 27/01/2010 11:37:04 AM 1577 Views
If you do that, I'm posting on the deeper meaning of Dan Brown. Tom - 27/01/2010 01:46:35 PM 1545 Views
Feel free to. Camilla - 27/01/2010 01:51:23 PM 1518 Views
Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. Tom - 27/01/2010 02:28:56 PM 1476 Views
Re: Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:45:41 PM 1516 Views
I'm not setting up a straw man. I'm challenging your touchy-feely approach. Tom - 27/01/2010 03:15:00 PM 1393 Views
My touchy-feely approach? Camilla - 27/01/2010 05:09:04 PM 1436 Views
Yes...using passing references in the text to justify a deeper analysis. Tom - 27/01/2010 05:16:10 PM 1452 Views
Doesn't touchy-feely mean that it is steeped in or based on emotion? Camilla - 27/01/2010 06:40:31 PM 1430 Views
I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here. Legolas - 27/01/2010 07:01:08 PM 1405 Views
You summed up my reasons for using "touchy-feely" quite well. Tom - 27/01/2010 07:27:45 PM 1433 Views
Glad to hear it. Legolas - 27/01/2010 07:39:20 PM 1315 Views
Re: I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here. Camilla - 27/01/2010 08:29:32 PM 1487 Views
See my reply to Tom for clarification, then. Legolas - 27/01/2010 08:57:18 PM 1533 Views
Re: See my reply to Tom for clarification, then. Camilla - 27/01/2010 09:09:47 PM 1448 Views
Well, so what will it be? Tom - 27/01/2010 09:14:53 PM 1398 Views
Er. Whose position are you arguing - mine or yours? Legolas - 27/01/2010 10:33:01 PM 1333 Views
Mine. Which is more complicated than a simple rejection. That is what I am saying. Camilla - 01/02/2010 12:53:58 PM 1326 Views
Do it. I'd read that. nossy - 27/01/2010 01:55:23 PM 1573 Views
Re: Do it. I'd read that. Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:10:04 PM 1470 Views
Right then. nossy - 27/01/2010 02:15:04 PM 1438 Views
All righty, that's enough of that. For Tom, Greg, and... no, pretty much just you two. Nebhead - 27/01/2010 04:33:00 PM 1499 Views
I call bullshit. I have been conducting the debate in a measured fashion. Tom - 27/01/2010 04:50:35 PM 1452 Views
And ANOTHER THING Tom - 27/01/2010 05:05:17 PM 1363 Views
Not everyone has finished reading it yet *NM* Camilla - 27/01/2010 05:12:10 PM 821 Views
Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing. Tom - 27/01/2010 05:17:51 PM 1525 Views
Re: Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing. Camilla - 27/01/2010 06:41:11 PM 1481 Views
We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults. Tom - 27/01/2010 07:30:49 PM 1410 Views
In the interest of discussing Dumas' intentions... Legolas - 27/01/2010 08:03:24 PM 1582 Views
It was mildly interesting. Tom - 27/01/2010 09:04:03 PM 1538 Views
I think you're misreading that... Legolas - 27/01/2010 10:18:11 PM 1552 Views
Re: We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults. Camilla - 27/01/2010 08:30:19 PM 1537 Views
The text doesn't warrant "close attention" any more than Dan Brown's works do. Tom - 27/01/2010 09:10:45 PM 1411 Views
fine. *NM* Camilla - 27/01/2010 09:12:44 PM 755 Views
Also, do you think a good book would have generated this level of discussion? Of course not. Tom - 27/01/2010 05:21:45 PM 1442 Views
What discussion? Camilla - 27/01/2010 06:42:32 PM 1470 Views
I said that we couldn't discuss the book on its own terms. Tom - 27/01/2010 07:35:32 PM 1553 Views
Which I still think we can. Camilla - 27/01/2010 08:35:35 PM 1440 Views
Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all. Tom - 27/01/2010 09:06:59 PM 1531 Views
Re: Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all. Camilla - 27/01/2010 09:12:22 PM 1489 Views
You have yet to show any utility for breaking things down. Tom - 27/01/2010 09:19:29 PM 1557 Views
I haven't tried to show any "utility" for it. Camilla - 01/02/2010 01:06:35 PM 1407 Views
I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on. Legolas - 27/01/2010 10:40:36 PM 1457 Views
Re: I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on. Camilla - 01/02/2010 12:56:03 PM 1379 Views
Deary me. Nebhead - 27/01/2010 05:19:58 PM 1659 Views
By "respect" do you mean that you want me to drop my debates? Tom - 27/01/2010 05:24:03 PM 1412 Views
Not at all. Nebhead - 27/01/2010 05:35:34 PM 1576 Views
Okay, I'm cool with that. Tom - 27/01/2010 05:44:54 PM 1559 Views
Thank you. Nebhead - 27/01/2010 05:48:05 PM 2120 Views
Please ban me, then. The Shrike - 27/01/2010 06:44:55 PM 1408 Views
I'm sorry as well - if I had any kind of willpower, it wouldn't have gotten that far. nossy - 27/01/2010 06:29:43 PM 1489 Views
Nods Roland00 - 18/02/2010 05:06:44 PM 1895 Views
Oh man, I love this thread. *NM* Ghavrel - 28/01/2010 01:17:58 AM 742 Views
On the nature of the "Book Club" Jacob - 28/01/2010 09:23:23 PM 1329 Views
Any chance of seeing some shorter suggestions? Wibble - 28/01/2010 10:20:59 PM 1577 Views
Yes, shorter would be good. Rebekah - 28/01/2010 10:23:28 PM 1392 Views
Oh i'm not complaining Wibble - 28/01/2010 10:33:48 PM 1416 Views
Sure sounded like it. Rebekah - 28/01/2010 10:38:27 PM 1461 Views
No for reals, shorter is good. Darth_Katie - 29/01/2010 01:08:26 AM 1435 Views
Absolutely. Jacob - 29/01/2010 03:33:15 AM 1380 Views
Agreed snoopcester - 29/01/2010 11:26:34 AM 1451 Views
Well, you should have known better! Larry - 29/01/2010 01:29:40 AM 1440 Views
I do. Jacob - 29/01/2010 08:31:30 PM 1418 Views
Thought you did Larry - 29/01/2010 08:38:39 PM 1408 Views
Jacob - 29/01/2010 08:51:42 PM 1428 Views
All I can say is The Master and Margarita better be one by March. WE WAS ROBBED. *NM* Ghavrel - 29/01/2010 02:31:48 AM 720 Views
That is the other one that I am considering. *NM* Jacob - 29/01/2010 03:32:02 AM 742 Views
I'll re-read Zhivago or Master if either is chosen Tom - 29/01/2010 05:26:02 AM 1384 Views
Talk to me Ghavrel. Tashmere - 30/01/2010 12:09:24 AM 1341 Views
Well, I haven't finished it yet. Ghavrel - 30/01/2010 02:21:08 AM 1403 Views
Re: On the nature of the "Book Club" nossy - 29/01/2010 12:33:03 PM 1367 Views
I didn't read it for the Book Club AgentOrange - 29/01/2010 12:40:22 AM 1405 Views
Well I'm late to the party John - 29/01/2010 06:21:18 AM 1377 Views
No, you're early Camilla - 01/02/2010 01:26:10 PM 1286 Views
I still have yet to see that discussion, Camilla. *NM* Tom - 03/02/2010 12:46:24 AM 779 Views
A few comments John - 04/02/2010 06:39:18 AM 1717 Views
If I kept you from participating, that's your fault. Tom - 04/02/2010 01:01:46 PM 1366 Views
Interesting way of dismissing what has already been discussed about the book Larry - 03/02/2010 04:22:26 AM 1532 Views
Nah, there's been discussion, here and there inbetween the fighting. *NM* Legolas - 03/02/2010 04:39:24 PM 725 Views
An interesting quote from the book - does it jibe with your experience? Tashmere - 29/01/2010 11:23:54 PM 1452 Views
Sure. Jacob - 01/02/2010 03:23:59 PM 1410 Views
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