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Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? Dar Valon Send a noteboard - 30/01/2010 09:12:22 AM
Does it deserve it?

I can't speak for others, or those that have read only the abridged or modern translations, the following is my personal opinion based on a reading of an old translation from the French done in the late 1800s (date uncertain, old oil skin book found through a dealer in London). Throughout the double volume, the story is a treasure of great lines, mostly from the Count after he begins to pursue his old enemies. These include the famous "Wait and hope!" line that makes the whole ending worthwhile. The Count's view of humanity is sharp and penetrating, though you do have to suffer through some long passages in the second book to find them. Remember the scene at the gallows where two men were going to be executed, and the fuss that occurred when one, the Count's man, receives a last minute pardon, there is a great line there on the real nature of mankind. The revenge theme is a vehicle for rising above such, a struggle the Count goes through constantly. I could go on for days but briefly, this is my all time favorite novel. You should really try to read it in the original French or an old translation, most modern translations butcher it horribly. There is an old great Japanese translation also, which may be even better than the original or the old English versions!
A real classic in any case. That's its appeal.
This message last edited by Dar Valon on 30/01/2010 at 09:13:43 AM
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The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas - Book Club now open! - 25/01/2010 10:54:37 PM 2592 Views
Le plot. - 25/01/2010 10:55:26 PM 1372 Views
Plot: demarcation, plan, complot... - 26/01/2010 11:48:19 PM 1520 Views
Les characters. - 25/01/2010 10:56:23 PM 1460 Views
The good, the bad and the ugly. - 26/01/2010 10:54:38 AM 1481 Views
Hmm. - 27/01/2010 03:58:31 PM 1405 Views
Re: Hmm. - 27/01/2010 04:59:12 PM 1465 Views
Re: Hmm. - 28/01/2010 01:40:34 PM 1419 Views
Re: Hmm. - 01/02/2010 12:49:06 PM 1612 Views
Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 25/01/2010 10:57:37 PM 1448 Views
Or rather, does this book share any traits in common with pornography? - 25/01/2010 11:14:01 PM 1550 Views
I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak. - 26/01/2010 03:43:04 AM 1485 Views
Re: I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak. - 26/01/2010 11:12:19 AM 1528 Views
In that case, the "release" is quite unsatisfying. - 27/01/2010 01:42:28 PM 1634 Views
Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 02:06:58 PM 1521 Views
Oh, and your point on revenge - that's just reading too much into the text. - 27/01/2010 02:16:05 PM 1354 Views
There is no such thing - 27/01/2010 02:18:46 PM 1403 Views
I fundamentally disagree with your post-modern take on the novel. - 27/01/2010 02:25:25 PM 1456 Views
It isn't a postmodern take on it - 27/01/2010 02:41:32 PM 1427 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 03:40:36 PM 1410 Views
Maybe it's of the same importance as the Lost Symbol. - 27/01/2010 03:44:55 PM 1472 Views
If I ddin't know better, I might think you a trifle petulant - 27/01/2010 04:19:57 PM 1535 Views
I'm never petulant - 27/01/2010 04:55:56 PM 1397 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 04:47:37 PM 1526 Views
I think one important question to ask is... - 26/01/2010 12:00:17 AM 1506 Views
I have read the abridged version a couple of times. I am reading the unabridged version this time. - 26/01/2010 03:25:50 AM 1449 Views
the potentially removable part... - 26/01/2010 11:24:16 AM 1513 Views
I have read both - 27/01/2010 01:37:00 AM 1536 Views
The abridged versus the unabridged - 28/01/2010 06:32:22 AM 1446 Views
Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 27/01/2010 01:16:47 AM 1578 Views
Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 30/01/2010 09:12:22 AM 1455 Views
Re: I got here too late, so I offer Umberto Eco's thoughts on the matter: - 22/02/2010 06:59:13 PM 1645 Views
I'm watching right back, Big Brother. *NM* - 25/01/2010 11:44:30 PM 759 Views
*NM* - 25/01/2010 11:45:27 PM 751 Views
The book was very childish. - 26/01/2010 03:05:01 AM 1562 Views
Granted, The Master and Margarita is also very much a fantasy book. *NM* - 26/01/2010 03:07:45 AM 780 Views
No, it really isn't. - 26/01/2010 03:10:08 AM 1525 Views
You know, this is a problem. - 26/01/2010 03:43:14 AM 1500 Views
There's really nothing I can say to this that Greg didn't just say above. - 26/01/2010 06:32:02 AM 1560 Views
People tend to forget one thing about Tolkien - 26/01/2010 01:36:06 PM 1482 Views
Re: No, it really isn't. - 26/01/2010 10:57:19 AM 1429 Views
I'll admit the only Lem I've read is Solaris... - 26/01/2010 01:52:02 PM 1514 Views
Read His Master's Voice - 26/01/2010 04:52:31 PM 1423 Views
You make some rather odd claims here, Tom - 27/01/2010 12:43:41 AM 1530 Views
You place undue importance on academic degrees. - 27/01/2010 01:19:40 AM 1504 Views
You misread totally what I said, I see... - 27/01/2010 01:52:59 AM 1402 Views
My claims are far from odd. In fact, they're quite common. - 27/01/2010 01:57:41 AM 1473 Views
In some circles; in others, they're rather antiquated nowadays - 27/01/2010 02:21:03 AM 1421 Views
If you were trying to write literature, wouldn't the label sting for you? - 27/01/2010 01:25:14 PM 1476 Views
I think it's easier to think of stories fitting into genre(s) than to think the same of authors - 27/01/2010 02:40:29 PM 1532 Views
Allow me to clarify: I'm talking about authors' reactions to their books being so labelled. - 27/01/2010 03:08:47 PM 1577 Views
But yet their reactions vary widely - 27/01/2010 11:33:25 PM 1459 Views
My fundamental premise is that genre has the most utility when applied to derivative fiction. - 28/01/2010 09:39:17 PM 1425 Views
And yet that term is mostly used as a non-loaded term that doesn't attempt to ascribe quality levels - 29/01/2010 02:49:20 AM 1362 Views
I like my definition of science fiction better than the one you quoted. - 29/01/2010 05:16:36 AM 1420 Views
I think estrangement is a key element, though - 30/01/2010 11:00:19 PM 1394 Views
I don't think estrangement is a necessary element. - 30/01/2010 11:47:07 PM 1591 Views
I mean it as a literary effect, that of creating a distance between text and reader - 31/01/2010 12:03:34 AM 1411 Views
Even if that's the meaning, I still disagree. - 03/02/2010 12:49:58 AM 1397 Views
Depends on how you view SF, I suppose - 03/02/2010 04:20:56 AM 1265 Views
I thought that was what we were mulling over - 03/02/2010 04:38:35 AM 1397 Views
True - 03/02/2010 05:11:19 AM 1333 Views
Nice tie-in! - 03/02/2010 01:55:33 PM 1369 Views
- 05/02/2010 06:06:23 AM 1454 Views
The approve of this message. - 26/01/2010 03:34:49 AM 1485 Views
I'm not through it quite yet, but I do have a question - 26/01/2010 12:24:14 PM 1412 Views
Wait...you VOTED for this book? - 26/01/2010 01:41:00 PM 1461 Views
I honestly can't remember. - 26/01/2010 01:55:39 PM 1428 Views
Doctor Zhivago is one of the best novels ever written. - 26/01/2010 02:12:35 PM 1441 Views
Right, so now we all know that if we'd just listen to me more often, the world would be better. - 26/01/2010 02:20:56 PM 1435 Views
The problem was that the suggestions were generally not that good. - 26/01/2010 02:32:50 PM 1486 Views
Possession is not "purely a romance novel". - 26/01/2010 02:57:17 PM 1610 Views
Which basically proves my entire point. - 26/01/2010 03:00:20 PM 1469 Views
Which is purely a romance novel? - 26/01/2010 02:59:38 PM 1486 Views
Fair enough, it might be a bit tricky to discuss. *NM* - 26/01/2010 03:04:58 PM 765 Views
In your opinion - 26/01/2010 03:07:12 PM 1490 Views
Exactly why I avoid suggesting modern books - 26/01/2010 03:10:09 PM 1479 Views
You really are ignornant of what A.S. Byatt writes, aren't you? - 27/01/2010 12:51:00 AM 1459 Views
Oh, I fucking hate epistolary novels. Thank you for warning me. - 27/01/2010 02:00:34 AM 1365 Views
Ha! - 27/01/2010 02:22:00 AM 1430 Views
Perhaps I would like it. I still hate epistolary novels. - 27/01/2010 01:26:43 PM 1453 Views
Indeed. *NM* - 26/01/2010 02:01:22 PM 701 Views
It's funny because I think it's a question of taste level. - 26/01/2010 02:32:08 PM 1513 Views
Curious George is a tale of many layers, as told by Werner Herzog - 26/01/2010 02:34:27 PM 1567 Views
I don't care if this validates your opinion of me. - 29/01/2010 11:06:18 PM 1366 Views
On what basis? - 26/01/2010 02:51:40 PM 1519 Views
It's a children's book. Get over it. Democracy failed. - 26/01/2010 02:55:03 PM 1514 Views
Usually does, when those who know better keep silent. - 26/01/2010 02:57:54 PM 1404 Views
I didn't keep silent, though. - 26/01/2010 04:46:48 PM 1507 Views
You're ignoring what we've been discussing. - 27/01/2010 11:11:44 AM 1456 Views
Regarding comfort zones - 26/01/2010 05:08:50 PM 1525 Views
Camilla, let's be honest here... - 26/01/2010 05:40:08 PM 1556 Views
Re: Camilla, let's be honest here... - 26/01/2010 09:10:47 PM 1506 Views
If that's your goal, Camilla, you failed. - 27/01/2010 01:35:52 PM 1578 Views
Possibly - 27/01/2010 01:38:39 PM 1432 Views
I have not been ranting and raving. I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification. - 27/01/2010 01:45:05 PM 1451 Views
Re: I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification. - 27/01/2010 01:53:28 PM 1434 Views
I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg. - 27/01/2010 02:26:12 PM 1565 Views
Don't you get it? We bring this place down. - 27/01/2010 02:42:32 PM 1404 Views
Re: I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg. - 27/01/2010 02:43:11 PM 1428 Views
While that was not the intent, that is an added bonus. - 27/01/2010 02:48:47 PM 1425 Views
why is it a bonus? - 27/01/2010 02:52:58 PM 1386 Views
I said see above. You should have before the thought police, Rebekah, started to delete. - 27/01/2010 02:59:07 PM 1671 Views
I did - 27/01/2010 04:40:25 PM 1463 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones - 27/01/2010 11:57:03 AM 1489 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones - 27/01/2010 11:59:31 AM 1444 Views
Halfway - 27/01/2010 12:07:14 PM 1426 Views
Re: Halfway - 27/01/2010 12:09:02 PM 1460 Views
Re: The book was very childish. - 30/01/2010 09:56:29 PM 1460 Views
I read it in French - 30/01/2010 10:54:34 PM 1340 Views
So. I really liked it. - 26/01/2010 08:57:02 AM 1580 Views
Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand. - 26/01/2010 11:04:23 PM 1432 Views
Re: Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand. - 26/01/2010 11:49:03 PM 1483 Views
We were talking about this last night. - 27/01/2010 11:14:21 AM 1558 Views
Re: We were talking about this last night. - 27/01/2010 11:37:04 AM 1560 Views
If you do that, I'm posting on the deeper meaning of Dan Brown. - 27/01/2010 01:46:35 PM 1529 Views
Feel free to. - 27/01/2010 01:51:23 PM 1501 Views
Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. - 27/01/2010 02:28:56 PM 1459 Views
Re: Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. - 27/01/2010 02:45:41 PM 1499 Views
I'm not setting up a straw man. I'm challenging your touchy-feely approach. - 27/01/2010 03:15:00 PM 1377 Views
My touchy-feely approach? - 27/01/2010 05:09:04 PM 1408 Views
Yes...using passing references in the text to justify a deeper analysis. - 27/01/2010 05:16:10 PM 1440 Views
Doesn't touchy-feely mean that it is steeped in or based on emotion? - 27/01/2010 06:40:31 PM 1412 Views
I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here. - 27/01/2010 07:01:08 PM 1389 Views
You summed up my reasons for using "touchy-feely" quite well. - 27/01/2010 07:27:45 PM 1416 Views
Glad to hear it. - 27/01/2010 07:39:20 PM 1302 Views
Re: I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here. - 27/01/2010 08:29:32 PM 1474 Views
See my reply to Tom for clarification, then. - 27/01/2010 08:57:18 PM 1519 Views
Re: See my reply to Tom for clarification, then. - 27/01/2010 09:09:47 PM 1431 Views
Well, so what will it be? - 27/01/2010 09:14:53 PM 1384 Views
Er. Whose position are you arguing - mine or yours? - 27/01/2010 10:33:01 PM 1319 Views
Do it. I'd read that. - 27/01/2010 01:55:23 PM 1555 Views
Re: Do it. I'd read that. - 27/01/2010 02:10:04 PM 1458 Views
Right then. - 27/01/2010 02:15:04 PM 1422 Views
All righty, that's enough of that. For Tom, Greg, and... no, pretty much just you two. - 27/01/2010 04:33:00 PM 1482 Views
And ANOTHER THING - 27/01/2010 05:05:17 PM 1347 Views
Not everyone has finished reading it yet *NM* - 27/01/2010 05:12:10 PM 813 Views
Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing. - 27/01/2010 05:17:51 PM 1512 Views
Re: Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing. - 27/01/2010 06:41:11 PM 1461 Views
We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults. - 27/01/2010 07:30:49 PM 1391 Views
In the interest of discussing Dumas' intentions... - 27/01/2010 08:03:24 PM 1563 Views
It was mildly interesting. - 27/01/2010 09:04:03 PM 1518 Views
I think you're misreading that... - 27/01/2010 10:18:11 PM 1534 Views
Re: We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults. - 27/01/2010 08:30:19 PM 1516 Views
The text doesn't warrant "close attention" any more than Dan Brown's works do. - 27/01/2010 09:10:45 PM 1395 Views
fine. *NM* - 27/01/2010 09:12:44 PM 746 Views
Also, do you think a good book would have generated this level of discussion? Of course not. - 27/01/2010 05:21:45 PM 1429 Views
What discussion? - 27/01/2010 06:42:32 PM 1453 Views
I said that we couldn't discuss the book on its own terms. - 27/01/2010 07:35:32 PM 1537 Views
Which I still think we can. - 27/01/2010 08:35:35 PM 1420 Views
Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all. - 27/01/2010 09:06:59 PM 1517 Views
Re: Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all. - 27/01/2010 09:12:22 PM 1474 Views
You have yet to show any utility for breaking things down. - 27/01/2010 09:19:29 PM 1544 Views
I haven't tried to show any "utility" for it. - 01/02/2010 01:06:35 PM 1387 Views
I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on. - 27/01/2010 10:40:36 PM 1446 Views
Re: I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on. - 01/02/2010 12:56:03 PM 1362 Views
Deary me. - 27/01/2010 05:19:58 PM 1644 Views
By "respect" do you mean that you want me to drop my debates? - 27/01/2010 05:24:03 PM 1395 Views
Not at all. - 27/01/2010 05:35:34 PM 1558 Views
Okay, I'm cool with that. - 27/01/2010 05:44:54 PM 1543 Views
Thank you. - 27/01/2010 05:48:05 PM 2092 Views
Please ban me, then. - 27/01/2010 06:44:55 PM 1389 Views
Nods - 18/02/2010 05:06:44 PM 1878 Views
Oh man, I love this thread. *NM* - 28/01/2010 01:17:58 AM 731 Views
On the nature of the "Book Club" - 28/01/2010 09:23:23 PM 1313 Views
Any chance of seeing some shorter suggestions? - 28/01/2010 10:20:59 PM 1529 Views
Yes, shorter would be good. - 28/01/2010 10:23:28 PM 1377 Views
Oh i'm not complaining - 28/01/2010 10:33:48 PM 1394 Views
Sure sounded like it. - 28/01/2010 10:38:27 PM 1444 Views
No for reals, shorter is good. - 29/01/2010 01:08:26 AM 1421 Views
Absolutely. - 29/01/2010 03:33:15 AM 1364 Views
Agreed - 29/01/2010 11:26:34 AM 1437 Views
Well, you should have known better! - 29/01/2010 01:29:40 AM 1423 Views
I do. - 29/01/2010 08:31:30 PM 1401 Views
Thought you did - 29/01/2010 08:38:39 PM 1395 Views
- 29/01/2010 08:51:42 PM 1413 Views
All I can say is The Master and Margarita better be one by March. WE WAS ROBBED. *NM* - 29/01/2010 02:31:48 AM 711 Views
That is the other one that I am considering. *NM* - 29/01/2010 03:32:02 AM 733 Views
I'll re-read Zhivago or Master if either is chosen - 29/01/2010 05:26:02 AM 1370 Views
Talk to me Ghavrel. - 30/01/2010 12:09:24 AM 1325 Views
Well, I haven't finished it yet. - 30/01/2010 02:21:08 AM 1388 Views
Re: On the nature of the "Book Club" - 29/01/2010 12:33:03 PM 1350 Views
I didn't read it for the Book Club - 29/01/2010 12:40:22 AM 1386 Views
Well I'm late to the party - 29/01/2010 06:21:18 AM 1358 Views
No, you're early - 01/02/2010 01:26:10 PM 1271 Views
I still have yet to see that discussion, Camilla. *NM* - 03/02/2010 12:46:24 AM 771 Views
A few comments - 04/02/2010 06:39:18 AM 1700 Views
If I kept you from participating, that's your fault. - 04/02/2010 01:01:46 PM 1349 Views
An interesting quote from the book - does it jibe with your experience? - 29/01/2010 11:23:54 PM 1435 Views
Sure. - 01/02/2010 03:23:59 PM 1393 Views

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