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Re: Hmm. Camilla Send a noteboard - 01/02/2010 12:49:06 PM
You mean his cunning escapes and Jacobin fervour and calm cool in the face of the knowledge that the police were looking for him? Or the kindly grandfather bit? I loved his politics and how he dealt with it.

I think as an over all character he was interesting to me from start to finish - his early years seemed like they just needed fleshing out to stand alone as an interesting story and his later years were just fun to see, as he steers events to look after his granddaughter despite being immobile. He is a really good character all the way through.


I agree. He has it all.

True. But I would have liked him to have more shades of grey. As it is he is really Raoul from Vicomte de Bragelonne: a noble, heroic, good side character rather than one with the interest of a lead. I am worried that if he were to carry a book alone we would get The Last Cavalier.

True, I was thinking he'd need to not the Valentine side to his character as that was what seemed the biggest flaw in both him and Raoul as characters - both so in love with their respective women that they don't have enough else to them.


Yes. And it is part of what ruined René in last Cavalier as well.

And The Last Cavalier was mostly bad because almost every chapter we were reminded of how he could juggle cannon balls etc. If he'd been less superman and we'd not been reminded he was all the time, I think it would have been more interesting.


Or if he had been slightly less perfect. What makes the musketeers good is that they all have flaws.

True. I never had a problem with that when it came to Danglars, precisely because he had been established as a schemer with ambitions already in the beginning. I can see him getting rich by stabbing people in the back along the way. Fernand is a bigger problem for me. He never seemed to have the know-how or ambition. There is of course the possibility that betraying Dantés gave him the idea to petray Ali Pasha when he was in a position to do so, and that that set him up with the money &c., but I find it less natural.

I think Fernand overshadows Danglars as he is really unbelievable but Danglars still seems too fast for him to have risen on his own, given the level he starts at. I think for both Dumas has sacrificed credible rises for getting them to a level where the Count has to work to destroy them and not simply swat them, as he would at their previous levels.


Probably.

That would have been good. Do you mean doubt on the reader's part?

I do, I think she would have been much more interesting if there had been a hint that she might not be all sweetness and light but was putting on an act while secretly poisoning her way to what she wanted.


Indeed. That would have made her a Complicated character, though, and I have learnt not to expect that from Dumas except in a very few cases.

Yes. I suspect this book is a ripe field for a feminist analysis.

It is a bit. There is a good range of female characters so it is interesting to see how Dumas treats them.

I agree. Her function in the plot is reflected in the Count's use of her in the beginning (again, the plot as theme bit intrigues me). But the change from slave to love object strikes me as too sudden.

It was on the Count's part but it I thought there was a clear undercurrent from her that he was what mattered to her and not just as a father but as a man.


I agree.

It seemed a bit strange from him though, as not long before he was trying to set her up with Morrel and treating her as a daughter then suddenly he has realised she is the one for him. It felt very rushed.


It feels a bit icky is what it feels like. It reminds me of Bleak House and Jarndyce's attentions to Esther. The whole switch from child to wife thing is a trend of the period, I think.
*MySmiley*
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The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas - Book Club now open! Rebekah - 25/01/2010 10:54:37 PM 2513 Views
Le plot. Rebekah - 25/01/2010 10:55:26 PM 1292 Views
Plot: demarcation, plan, complot... Camilla - 26/01/2010 11:48:19 PM 1441 Views
Les characters. Rebekah - 25/01/2010 10:56:23 PM 1375 Views
The good, the bad and the ugly. Camilla - 26/01/2010 10:54:38 AM 1401 Views
Hmm. snoopcester - 27/01/2010 03:58:31 PM 1318 Views
Re: Hmm. Camilla - 27/01/2010 04:59:12 PM 1383 Views
Re: Hmm. snoopcester - 28/01/2010 01:40:34 PM 1338 Views
Re: Hmm. Camilla - 01/02/2010 12:49:06 PM 1532 Views
Why does the book have enduring appeal? Rebekah - 25/01/2010 10:57:37 PM 1365 Views
Or rather, does this book share any traits in common with pornography? Larry - 25/01/2010 11:14:01 PM 1468 Views
I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak. Tom - 26/01/2010 03:43:04 AM 1401 Views
Re: I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak. Camilla - 26/01/2010 11:12:19 AM 1447 Views
In that case, the "release" is quite unsatisfying. Tom - 27/01/2010 01:42:28 PM 1552 Views
Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:06:58 PM 1441 Views
He would not have known the book would be ruined by water. He thought he was being buried. Tom - 27/01/2010 02:15:02 PM 1351 Views
He would still have to swim, being on an island Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:37:26 PM 1519 Views
Oh, and your point on revenge - that's just reading too much into the text. Tom - 27/01/2010 02:16:05 PM 1269 Views
There is no such thing Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:18:46 PM 1322 Views
I fundamentally disagree with your post-modern take on the novel. Tom - 27/01/2010 02:25:25 PM 1375 Views
It isn't a postmodern take on it Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:41:32 PM 1346 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting snoopcester - 27/01/2010 03:40:36 PM 1330 Views
Maybe it's of the same importance as the Lost Symbol. Tom - 27/01/2010 03:44:55 PM 1391 Views
If I ddin't know better, I might think you a trifle petulant snoopcester - 27/01/2010 04:19:57 PM 1454 Views
I'm never petulant Tom - 27/01/2010 04:55:56 PM 1315 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting Camilla - 27/01/2010 04:47:37 PM 1442 Views
I think one important question to ask is... Legolas - 26/01/2010 12:00:17 AM 1425 Views
I like it, but it is purely on the adventure story level, and I've read the unabridged version. Rebekah - 26/01/2010 12:03:01 AM 1279 Views
I'm fairly certain I read the unabridged version. It was 1500 pages. *NM* Tom - 26/01/2010 02:36:10 AM 702 Views
I have read the abridged version a couple of times. I am reading the unabridged version this time. Tashmere - 26/01/2010 03:25:50 AM 1368 Views
the potentially removable part... Camilla - 26/01/2010 11:24:16 AM 1437 Views
I have read both Camilla - 27/01/2010 01:37:00 AM 1457 Views
I actually didn't mean the people here on the site so much as readers in general. Legolas - 27/01/2010 01:44:46 AM 1438 Views
Re: I actually didn't mean the people here on the site so much as readers in general. Camilla - 27/01/2010 01:48:11 AM 1365 Views
The abridged versus the unabridged Ryan - 28/01/2010 06:32:22 AM 1362 Views
Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? Camilla - 27/01/2010 01:16:47 AM 1501 Views
Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? Dar Valon - 30/01/2010 09:12:22 AM 1377 Views
Re: I got here too late, so I offer Umberto Eco's thoughts on the matter: Danae al'Thor - 22/02/2010 06:59:13 PM 1565 Views
I'm watching right back, Big Brother. *NM* The Shrike - 25/01/2010 11:44:30 PM 689 Views
*NM* Rebekah - 25/01/2010 11:45:27 PM 676 Views
The book was very childish. Tom - 26/01/2010 03:05:01 AM 1482 Views
Granted, The Master and Margarita is also very much a fantasy book. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/01/2010 03:07:45 AM 707 Views
No, it really isn't. Tom - 26/01/2010 03:10:08 AM 1448 Views
You know, this is a problem. The Shrike - 26/01/2010 03:43:14 AM 1420 Views
Thank God, I've never even heard of "Skol". Popov, yes, but Skol? Tom - 26/01/2010 03:49:08 AM 1412 Views
I've not tried it, but every time I go into liquor stores, it sits on the bottom shelf. The Shrike - 26/01/2010 03:57:03 AM 1308 Views
There's really nothing I can say to this that Greg didn't just say above. Ghavrel - 26/01/2010 06:32:02 AM 1480 Views
People tend to forget one thing about Tolkien Tom - 26/01/2010 01:36:06 PM 1402 Views
Re: No, it really isn't. Camilla - 26/01/2010 10:57:19 AM 1349 Views
Having Camilla concur with me on literary matters is very encouraging. Tom - 26/01/2010 01:37:23 PM 1413 Views
I do not agree with your complete dismissal of The Count of Monte Cristo, though Camilla - 26/01/2010 04:58:58 PM 1374 Views
I'll admit the only Lem I've read is Solaris... Legolas - 26/01/2010 01:52:02 PM 1433 Views
Read His Master's Voice Camilla - 26/01/2010 04:52:31 PM 1346 Views
You make some rather odd claims here, Tom Larry - 27/01/2010 12:43:41 AM 1451 Views
You place undue importance on academic degrees. Ghavrel - 27/01/2010 01:19:40 AM 1427 Views
You misread totally what I said, I see... Larry - 27/01/2010 01:52:59 AM 1322 Views
My claims are far from odd. In fact, they're quite common. Tom - 27/01/2010 01:57:41 AM 1391 Views
In some circles; in others, they're rather antiquated nowadays Larry - 27/01/2010 02:21:03 AM 1342 Views
If you were trying to write literature, wouldn't the label sting for you? Tom - 27/01/2010 01:25:14 PM 1395 Views
I think it's easier to think of stories fitting into genre(s) than to think the same of authors Larry - 27/01/2010 02:40:29 PM 1454 Views
Allow me to clarify: I'm talking about authors' reactions to their books being so labelled. Tom - 27/01/2010 03:08:47 PM 1496 Views
But yet their reactions vary widely Larry - 27/01/2010 11:33:25 PM 1380 Views
My fundamental premise is that genre has the most utility when applied to derivative fiction. Tom - 28/01/2010 09:39:17 PM 1343 Views
And yet that term is mostly used as a non-loaded term that doesn't attempt to ascribe quality levels Larry - 29/01/2010 02:49:20 AM 1277 Views
I like my definition of science fiction better than the one you quoted. Tom - 29/01/2010 05:16:36 AM 1340 Views
I think estrangement is a key element, though Larry - 30/01/2010 11:00:19 PM 1307 Views
I don't think estrangement is a necessary element. Tom - 30/01/2010 11:47:07 PM 1512 Views
I mean it as a literary effect, that of creating a distance between text and reader Larry - 31/01/2010 12:03:34 AM 1330 Views
Even if that's the meaning, I still disagree. Tom - 03/02/2010 12:49:58 AM 1313 Views
Depends on how you view SF, I suppose Larry - 03/02/2010 04:20:56 AM 1185 Views
I thought that was what we were mulling over Tom - 03/02/2010 04:38:35 AM 1316 Views
True Larry - 03/02/2010 05:11:19 AM 1252 Views
Nice tie-in! Tom - 03/02/2010 01:55:33 PM 1287 Views
Larry - 05/02/2010 06:06:23 AM 1371 Views
Your unscientific anecdotal evidence sounds very odd to me. Legolas - 28/01/2010 12:15:10 AM 1383 Views
It might. I'm not purporting to speak for all of humanity (at least on this point). Tom - 28/01/2010 09:43:40 PM 1441 Views
The approve of this message. The Shrike - 26/01/2010 03:34:49 AM 1403 Views
So, what you're saying is that watching the 2002 movie was sufficient? Good! *NM* everynametaken - 26/01/2010 06:34:53 AM 674 Views
I'm not through it quite yet, but I do have a question nossy - 26/01/2010 12:24:14 PM 1333 Views
Wait...you VOTED for this book? Tom - 26/01/2010 01:41:00 PM 1380 Views
I honestly can't remember. nossy - 26/01/2010 01:55:39 PM 1347 Views
Doctor Zhivago is one of the best novels ever written. Tom - 26/01/2010 02:12:35 PM 1360 Views
Right, so now we all know that if we'd just listen to me more often, the world would be better. nossy - 26/01/2010 02:20:56 PM 1351 Views
The problem was that the suggestions were generally not that good. Tom - 26/01/2010 02:32:50 PM 1406 Views
Possession is not "purely a romance novel". Legolas - 26/01/2010 02:57:17 PM 1532 Views
Which basically proves my entire point. nossy - 26/01/2010 03:00:20 PM 1394 Views
Which is purely a romance novel? Rebekah - 26/01/2010 02:59:38 PM 1407 Views
Fair enough, it might be a bit tricky to discuss. *NM* Legolas - 26/01/2010 03:04:58 PM 690 Views
In your opinion nossy - 26/01/2010 03:07:12 PM 1413 Views
Exactly why I avoid suggesting modern books Tom - 26/01/2010 03:10:09 PM 1399 Views
You really are ignornant of what A.S. Byatt writes, aren't you? Larry - 27/01/2010 12:51:00 AM 1380 Views
Oh, I fucking hate epistolary novels. Thank you for warning me. Tom - 27/01/2010 02:00:34 AM 1283 Views
Ha! Larry - 27/01/2010 02:22:00 AM 1352 Views
Perhaps I would like it. I still hate epistolary novels. Tom - 27/01/2010 01:26:43 PM 1371 Views
Indeed. *NM* Rebekah - 26/01/2010 02:01:22 PM 626 Views
It's funny because I think it's a question of taste level. The Shrike - 26/01/2010 02:32:08 PM 1432 Views
Curious George is a tale of many layers, as told by Werner Herzog Tom - 26/01/2010 02:34:27 PM 1487 Views
I don't care if this validates your opinion of me. Tashmere - 29/01/2010 11:06:18 PM 1275 Views
On what basis? nossy - 26/01/2010 02:51:40 PM 1439 Views
It's a children's book. Get over it. Democracy failed. The Shrike - 26/01/2010 02:55:03 PM 1433 Views
Usually does, when those who know better keep silent. nossy - 26/01/2010 02:57:54 PM 1325 Views
I didn't keep silent, though. The Shrike - 26/01/2010 04:46:48 PM 1425 Views
You're ignoring what we've been discussing. nossy - 27/01/2010 11:11:44 AM 1374 Views
Regarding comfort zones Camilla - 26/01/2010 05:08:50 PM 1447 Views
Camilla, let's be honest here... Tom - 26/01/2010 05:40:08 PM 1476 Views
Re: Camilla, let's be honest here... Camilla - 26/01/2010 09:10:47 PM 1429 Views
If that's your goal, Camilla, you failed. Tom - 27/01/2010 01:35:52 PM 1495 Views
Possibly Camilla - 27/01/2010 01:38:39 PM 1345 Views
I have not been ranting and raving. I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification. Tom - 27/01/2010 01:45:05 PM 1367 Views
Re: I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification. Camilla - 27/01/2010 01:53:28 PM 1354 Views
I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg. Tom - 27/01/2010 02:26:12 PM 1483 Views
Don't you get it? We bring this place down. The Shrike - 27/01/2010 02:42:32 PM 1327 Views
Heh heh heh. Pink cardigan-wearing suburban cul-de-sac. I like it. *NM* Tom - 27/01/2010 03:11:25 PM 677 Views
Re: I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg. Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:43:11 PM 1348 Views
While that was not the intent, that is an added bonus. The Shrike - 27/01/2010 02:48:47 PM 1344 Views
why is it a bonus? Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:52:58 PM 1305 Views
I said see above. You should have before the thought police, Rebekah, started to delete. The Shrike - 27/01/2010 02:59:07 PM 1588 Views
I did Camilla - 27/01/2010 04:40:25 PM 1382 Views
Well, you wouldn't grow tired of us calling a novel shit if you chose a novel that wasn't shit. Tom - 27/01/2010 03:11:57 PM 1332 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones nossy - 27/01/2010 11:57:03 AM 1410 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones Camilla - 27/01/2010 11:59:31 AM 1361 Views
Halfway nossy - 27/01/2010 12:07:14 PM 1344 Views
Re: Halfway Camilla - 27/01/2010 12:09:02 PM 1377 Views
Re: The book was very childish. Dar Valon - 30/01/2010 09:56:29 PM 1377 Views
I read it in French Larry - 30/01/2010 10:54:34 PM 1257 Views
So. I really liked it. Nebhead - 26/01/2010 08:57:02 AM 1490 Views
Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand. Rebekah - 26/01/2010 11:04:23 PM 1346 Views
Re: Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand. Camilla - 26/01/2010 11:49:03 PM 1400 Views
We were talking about this last night. nossy - 27/01/2010 11:14:21 AM 1475 Views
Re: We were talking about this last night. Camilla - 27/01/2010 11:37:04 AM 1479 Views
If you do that, I'm posting on the deeper meaning of Dan Brown. Tom - 27/01/2010 01:46:35 PM 1447 Views
Feel free to. Camilla - 27/01/2010 01:51:23 PM 1419 Views
Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. Tom - 27/01/2010 02:28:56 PM 1377 Views
Re: Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:45:41 PM 1413 Views
I'm not setting up a straw man. I'm challenging your touchy-feely approach. Tom - 27/01/2010 03:15:00 PM 1298 Views
My touchy-feely approach? Camilla - 27/01/2010 05:09:04 PM 1315 Views
Yes...using passing references in the text to justify a deeper analysis. Tom - 27/01/2010 05:16:10 PM 1357 Views
Doesn't touchy-feely mean that it is steeped in or based on emotion? Camilla - 27/01/2010 06:40:31 PM 1329 Views
I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here. Legolas - 27/01/2010 07:01:08 PM 1304 Views
You summed up my reasons for using "touchy-feely" quite well. Tom - 27/01/2010 07:27:45 PM 1334 Views
Glad to hear it. Legolas - 27/01/2010 07:39:20 PM 1218 Views
Re: I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here. Camilla - 27/01/2010 08:29:32 PM 1391 Views
See my reply to Tom for clarification, then. Legolas - 27/01/2010 08:57:18 PM 1439 Views
Re: See my reply to Tom for clarification, then. Camilla - 27/01/2010 09:09:47 PM 1346 Views
Well, so what will it be? Tom - 27/01/2010 09:14:53 PM 1304 Views
Er. Whose position are you arguing - mine or yours? Legolas - 27/01/2010 10:33:01 PM 1238 Views
Mine. Which is more complicated than a simple rejection. That is what I am saying. Camilla - 01/02/2010 12:53:58 PM 1220 Views
Do it. I'd read that. nossy - 27/01/2010 01:55:23 PM 1471 Views
Re: Do it. I'd read that. Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:10:04 PM 1373 Views
Right then. nossy - 27/01/2010 02:15:04 PM 1336 Views
All righty, that's enough of that. For Tom, Greg, and... no, pretty much just you two. Nebhead - 27/01/2010 04:33:00 PM 1398 Views
I call bullshit. I have been conducting the debate in a measured fashion. Tom - 27/01/2010 04:50:35 PM 1354 Views
And ANOTHER THING Tom - 27/01/2010 05:05:17 PM 1261 Views
Not everyone has finished reading it yet *NM* Camilla - 27/01/2010 05:12:10 PM 739 Views
Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing. Tom - 27/01/2010 05:17:51 PM 1429 Views
Re: Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing. Camilla - 27/01/2010 06:41:11 PM 1375 Views
We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults. Tom - 27/01/2010 07:30:49 PM 1306 Views
In the interest of discussing Dumas' intentions... Legolas - 27/01/2010 08:03:24 PM 1479 Views
It was mildly interesting. Tom - 27/01/2010 09:04:03 PM 1433 Views
I think you're misreading that... Legolas - 27/01/2010 10:18:11 PM 1453 Views
Re: We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults. Camilla - 27/01/2010 08:30:19 PM 1434 Views
The text doesn't warrant "close attention" any more than Dan Brown's works do. Tom - 27/01/2010 09:10:45 PM 1314 Views
fine. *NM* Camilla - 27/01/2010 09:12:44 PM 672 Views
Also, do you think a good book would have generated this level of discussion? Of course not. Tom - 27/01/2010 05:21:45 PM 1345 Views
What discussion? Camilla - 27/01/2010 06:42:32 PM 1370 Views
I said that we couldn't discuss the book on its own terms. Tom - 27/01/2010 07:35:32 PM 1452 Views
Which I still think we can. Camilla - 27/01/2010 08:35:35 PM 1340 Views
Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all. Tom - 27/01/2010 09:06:59 PM 1436 Views
Re: Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all. Camilla - 27/01/2010 09:12:22 PM 1393 Views
You have yet to show any utility for breaking things down. Tom - 27/01/2010 09:19:29 PM 1459 Views
I haven't tried to show any "utility" for it. Camilla - 01/02/2010 01:06:35 PM 1302 Views
I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on. Legolas - 27/01/2010 10:40:36 PM 1360 Views
Re: I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on. Camilla - 01/02/2010 12:56:03 PM 1281 Views
Deary me. Nebhead - 27/01/2010 05:19:58 PM 1560 Views
By "respect" do you mean that you want me to drop my debates? Tom - 27/01/2010 05:24:03 PM 1309 Views
Not at all. Nebhead - 27/01/2010 05:35:34 PM 1474 Views
Okay, I'm cool with that. Tom - 27/01/2010 05:44:54 PM 1463 Views
Thank you. Nebhead - 27/01/2010 05:48:05 PM 1880 Views
Please ban me, then. The Shrike - 27/01/2010 06:44:55 PM 1310 Views
I'm sorry as well - if I had any kind of willpower, it wouldn't have gotten that far. nossy - 27/01/2010 06:29:43 PM 1384 Views
Nods Roland00 - 18/02/2010 05:06:44 PM 1793 Views
Oh man, I love this thread. *NM* Ghavrel - 28/01/2010 01:17:58 AM 656 Views
On the nature of the "Book Club" Jacob - 28/01/2010 09:23:23 PM 1231 Views
Any chance of seeing some shorter suggestions? Wibble - 28/01/2010 10:20:59 PM 1446 Views
Yes, shorter would be good. Rebekah - 28/01/2010 10:23:28 PM 1295 Views
Oh i'm not complaining Wibble - 28/01/2010 10:33:48 PM 1312 Views
Sure sounded like it. Rebekah - 28/01/2010 10:38:27 PM 1361 Views
No for reals, shorter is good. Darth_Katie - 29/01/2010 01:08:26 AM 1336 Views
Absolutely. Jacob - 29/01/2010 03:33:15 AM 1279 Views
Agreed snoopcester - 29/01/2010 11:26:34 AM 1355 Views
Well, you should have known better! Larry - 29/01/2010 01:29:40 AM 1341 Views
I do. Jacob - 29/01/2010 08:31:30 PM 1316 Views
Thought you did Larry - 29/01/2010 08:38:39 PM 1312 Views
Jacob - 29/01/2010 08:51:42 PM 1330 Views
All I can say is The Master and Margarita better be one by March. WE WAS ROBBED. *NM* Ghavrel - 29/01/2010 02:31:48 AM 637 Views
That is the other one that I am considering. *NM* Jacob - 29/01/2010 03:32:02 AM 659 Views
I'll re-read Zhivago or Master if either is chosen Tom - 29/01/2010 05:26:02 AM 1286 Views
Talk to me Ghavrel. Tashmere - 30/01/2010 12:09:24 AM 1240 Views
Well, I haven't finished it yet. Ghavrel - 30/01/2010 02:21:08 AM 1301 Views
Re: On the nature of the "Book Club" nossy - 29/01/2010 12:33:03 PM 1269 Views
I didn't read it for the Book Club AgentOrange - 29/01/2010 12:40:22 AM 1303 Views
Well I'm late to the party John - 29/01/2010 06:21:18 AM 1276 Views
No, you're early Camilla - 01/02/2010 01:26:10 PM 1185 Views
I still have yet to see that discussion, Camilla. *NM* Tom - 03/02/2010 12:46:24 AM 697 Views
A few comments John - 04/02/2010 06:39:18 AM 1620 Views
If I kept you from participating, that's your fault. Tom - 04/02/2010 01:01:46 PM 1266 Views
Interesting way of dismissing what has already been discussed about the book Larry - 03/02/2010 04:22:26 AM 1436 Views
Nah, there's been discussion, here and there inbetween the fighting. *NM* Legolas - 03/02/2010 04:39:24 PM 643 Views
An interesting quote from the book - does it jibe with your experience? Tashmere - 29/01/2010 11:23:54 PM 1355 Views
Sure. Jacob - 01/02/2010 03:23:59 PM 1314 Views
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